Dr. D gyno help pls
- 06-15-2006, 08:36 PM
Dr. D gyno help pls
Dr. D i've read alot of the posts on gyno around here and u seem to know alot about it. I have pubertal gyno that i thought mite be just fat so i cut down to about 8-9% bf. its reduced the size somewhat but has also just made it more noticeable because of the low bf. i was thinking of using rebound xt to see if that works cuz i have some lying around. i've read u recomending using rxt inversely with nolva, but i've also read other places that nolva inhibts some ai's, is that mainly stronger ai's such as letrozole. also can i use cee while using rebound xt, or will the diuresis just negate the cee or will the cee inhibit the rxt in some way. any help from anyone would be much appreciated.
- 06-16-2006, 04:27 AM
well im not dr d-- but i have pubertal gyno. as far as i know theres no way to reduce it other than surgery. and if there is a way, well i'd like to hear it! i'm pretty sure nolva/ais are used with forming gyno, not the already-formed kind. but i'm interested to read more posts with this.
- 06-16-2006, 10:27 AM
well i've heard of some successes at reducing gyno with different ai's and serms. i plan on using letrozole if the rebound xt doesnt' work but wanted some advice with this.
06-16-2006, 10:50 AM
bro i have the same problem. ive had it since puberty. i run nolva daily..but it just minimizes it. my doc has me prescribed on some nolva for a month and wants to check me out after. like renegade said i think the only chance to get rid of it completely is surgery.
06-16-2006, 11:14 AM
i agree.Originally Posted by rippedfreak123
i also have slight pubertal gyno on the left side and i have used multiple things to reduce it that have worked. Ai's seem to do the best job, RXT and letro being the big boys. If you were to use letro at a MG per day until the bottle was empty you would probably be able to reduce your gyno by 1/4 or 1/3, which is signficant. letro can be harsh however so watch your hairline, joints, and libido.
Also if it is more of a "puffy nipple syndrome" obtain cabergoline as prolactin may be playing a partial role. cabergoline can be run a .5 mg twice a week.
try different things, see what works. If you would like to use the rxt use 4 caps a day and you should see something. this will also give you a sweet testosterone boost.
06-16-2006, 11:35 AM
You can give this a try !!! This is a post from my buddy on another board. He knows alot about gyno and he wrote this great piece of info!! I have seen great success with using this protocol. It is worth a try before having surgery...
I am posting this thread to help answer all of the questions regarding gyno prevention and reversal, the use of letrozole and other anti-e’s. I will go over everything in very simple easy to understand language. Also we are talking about estrogen gyno here, not progesterone (but using letro will stop progesterone related problems as well since it inhibits all estrogen anyways). Progesterone gyno will be enlargement of your nipple area, the actual aereola, not a lump under it.
Let me make this first point very clear, as I state in my signature this is from my personal experience, so whether you agree with it or not is your own issue. I have helped many people with gyno and it has worked just fine for them as well.
To first understand why you are doing what you are doing I am going to go over a few things and a few definitions:
SERM – Selective estrogen receptor modulator. These drugs work by binding to the estrogen receptors and flooding them in a sense, making it difficult (but not impossible by any means) for estrogen to bind to the receptors and thus prevent the onset of estrogen related side effects.
Most common forms: Tamoxifen (Nolvadex), Clomiphene (Clomid)
AI – Aromatise Inhibitor. These drugs work by inhibiting the aromatization of estrogen. This means that in effect AI’s prevent androgens from converting to estrogen, again, making it difficult (but not impossible) for estrogen to reach receptor sites.
Most common forms: Anastrozole (l-dex, a-dex), Exemestane (aromasin), Femera (letrozole). For our purpose of reversing gyno we are interested in Letro.
Letro and your sex drive:
Letrozole will suppress your sex drive. This is another reason why it is so important to act on preventing gyno as soon as possible. Since we all know that Test should be run in every cycle this will cancel out the effect of sex drive suppression.
Running letro to prevent gyno:
If you decide to run estrogen protection while on cycle (and I suggest you do unless you are aware that you do not require it), you can run either a SERM or an AI. Letro will be the most powerful AI you can use, it will inhibit 98+% of estrogen using a dose as low as .25mg and even lower. This is why I suggest you do not use a dose higher than .50mg while on cycle just trying to prevent estrogen related side effects.
You will want to start running the letro approximately 2 weeks before you begin your cycle to allow it to fully stabilize in your blood. I have often heard the argument that letro takes up to 60 days to stabilize, I don’t know if I buy into this for the reason that I have reversed gyno after using letro for only 1 week. Still to be safe I recommend starting it before your cycle as stated above.
If you do decide to run letro there is absolutely no need to run another AI or SERM. Do not make the mistake of thinking more is better. Think of it this way; if letro is preventing the conversion of androgens to estrogen than there is no estrogen, what would the purpose of a SERM be when there is no estrogen to bind to the receptors? Nolva will only take away from the effectiveness of letro.
This brings me to my next point. Do not listen to anyone who tells you to bump up your nolvadex to 60+mg ED if you get gyno. I have no idea where this idea started but I have seen it suggest far too many times recently. Nolvadex will do nothing to reverse your gyno…let me make that clear IT WILL DO NOTHING FOR GYNO. If you are running nolva as your anti-e and start to develop gyno than sure you can bump the dosage a small amount to try to prevent it from progressing further, but letrozole must begin ASAP.
It is very important that you begin taking letrozole immediately, the longer your wait the more risk you take in not being able to reverse it.
How do I know if I have gyno?
If you have developed gyno you will have a lump behind your nipple. It will be fairly hard, and it will be tender to touch.
Running letro to reverse gyno:
I am going to go over the three different scenarios which people could fit into. Remember regardless of what scenario you are in it is important that you begin taking the letro ASAP.
1. Already using an anti-e aside from letro.
2. Already using letro @ a dose of .25mg or .50mg ED.
3. Not running any estrogen protection.
Day 1: .25mg Letro + anti-e*
Day 2: .50mg Letro
Day 3: 1.0mg Letro
Day 4: 1.5mg Letro
Day 5: 2.0mg Letro
Day 6: 2.5mg Letro **
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **
*Regardless of the anti-e you are using it is important to still use it for the first day you begin letro as the letro will not have taken any effect and you by no means want your body to be without any protection when gyno is already prevalent.
** You will remain at this dose until gyno symptoms subside. Once you believe your gyno is gone it is important to stay at this dose for another 4-7 days to ensure all traces are gone. I recommend people with a bf% over 15 stay on for a week as it may be harder to judge completely whether the lump is completely gone. Once this period is over it will be important to taper letro down slowly rather than coming off it completely. Regardless of which manner you tapered up your dose you will all taper down in the same fashion.
Day 1: 2.0mg
Day 2: 1.5mg
Day 3: 1.0mg
Day 4: .50mg***
Day 5: .25mg
***You can remain at this dose or go down further to .25mg. It is really up to you at this point. They are both very common maintenance doses as an anti-e while on cycle. Personally I have stayed with .25mg and never had a problem.
Letro and the estrogen rebound:
With your estrogen being completely inhibited there is a definite estrogen rebound as your body tries to re-stabilize the testosterone:estrogen balance. We can prevent this rebound effect by supplementing further with another AI or SERM. So, I suggest that when you are coming to the end of your cycle you will more than likely be using Nolva in your post cycle therapy so just make sure that you begin taking nolva the last day you are going to take your letro and then continue on as you would with regular PCT.
This now leads us into the question of reversing gyno while not on cycle. There are a few things to remember here. You have already waited longer than you should have, and your sex drive will be shot. You can use tribulus or another natural test booster to help you in this scenario but I can’t guarantee the effectiveness. Just follow gyno reversal protocols 2 or 3. When coming off again you must taper and begin using nolvadex to prevent any rebound effect that may occur.
How much nolvadex should you use if you are not going into post cycle therapy and running this off cycle? I suggest starting at 20mg ED for a week and then lowering it to 10mg for another week and then coming off completely
06-16-2006, 11:50 AM
letrozole is harsh on the hairline??? how about rebound xt. i just started 4 caps a day, but i don't want this to cuase my hair to thin more than it already is. is there anything i could used along side with this products to inhibit this.
08-14-2006, 12:50 AM
I'm following the nolva reversal protocol mercedes posted. Im Also using rxt at 3 pills right now, and cabergoline at.250mcg eod, i think i'm going to go back to using cab ed. It seems to be getting worse. Im thinking of adding nlova also.
is there anything i can do.
Im trying to stay on one more week (6 weeks total).
prop 100 eod.
I'm thinking of dropping the test for the last week.
08-14-2006, 01:21 AM
Do you mean the letro reversal protocol I posted ( because you typed nolva protocol the one I posted is using letro)?? That seems strange because masterone is effective in combating estrogenic/ progesteronic side effects.. Test can lower t-3 which in turn can raise prolactin but at your prop dose I dont think it is the problem. Caber will deal with prolactin concerns and you arent using any compounds that should cause such a prolactin concern IMO ( other than what I said about testosterone lowering t-3 and in turn raising prolactin) So I dont think caber will help much.. We can not post sources here but are you sure your letro is legit?? Also where you using any SERMS or AI during your entire cycle or did you just add letro after you had gyno symptoms??Originally Posted by ABiLiTY
08-14-2006, 01:16 PM
I meant letro, i appologize.
The letro,cab, nolva are from a board sponser.
i think i mostly have progestrone gyno. It almost seems like i have progest gyno in 1 nipp and estrogen gyno in the other.
im also running t-3.
I've actually been using cabergoline for about 12 weeks now, and ive been dosing as high as even 1mg ed.
i started letro the day i started my cycle.
I actually just dropped the test cause my nipps are getting real puffy.
08-14-2006, 01:52 PM
will prolactin gyno (puffy nipples) go away once off the compound? i seem to have a little of it on tren but nothing crazy. ive been trying to get rid of my gyno that came up with nolva and i havent noticed it getting any worse but it hasnt gone away; but like i said, my nipples seem to be a little puffier.
08-14-2006, 07:40 PM
my nipps seem to have gotten much puffier over the last weekend. I think rxt could have possibly made it worse, i'm not sure whats doing what though.
I have some picture's to compare 1(current) 2 (more then a year ago), these aren't the best for comparison, but its what i have.
08-14-2006, 08:23 PM
That doesn't look bad man. I wouldn't worry about it unless it progresses further.
08-14-2006, 09:41 PM
Letro can take awhile to build a steady blood plasma level . most start it 2 weeks prior to starting a cycle.. The t-3 would also help with prolactin issues. IMO your problem is from estrogen not progesterone . You not using any AAS with progestinic properties..Originally Posted by ABiLiTY
08-14-2006, 09:45 PM
Puffy nipples are usally caused by progesterone not prolacin. Since your using a 19 nor ( tren ) progesterone is the culprit.. Prolactin effects the mammary gland and can cause lactation.. You should be ok..Originally Posted by Irish Cannon
08-14-2006, 09:51 PM
Your nipples look normal to me in those pics.. Do you have any lumps in your nipple area?? Again I think your problem is from esterogen... What doses of letro where you using on your cycle??Originally Posted by ABiLiTY
08-15-2006, 01:21 PM
well ive had a lump under my left nipple for monthes since like, last winter, but i had that when i was in middle school also.
I lactate and have been on and off for monthes as well, for some reason only when im out in the sun though. I think it is prolactin induced because the size of my nipples(red area) has grown a decent amount.
Ive been using 2.5mg letro the last 4 weeks. I started letro at the begining of my cycle at a lower dose, unfortunatly i didn't start it 2 weeks prior.
I think i messed up during my last cycle. I never had a probblem with gyno before, but i ran the first 4 weeks of my cycle with cissus which i think started it, because i had ran everyother compound without any problem. Following that i ran tren with nolva together for around 5 weeks, i think that caused a prolactin issue.
08-15-2006, 07:23 PM
Remember prolactin and progesterone are 2 different hormons.. (Prolactin effects the mammary gland and can cause lactating) Progesterone is usually the cause of enlarged nipples and prolactin is whats causes you to lactate. Since you are using the caber this will help with that( prolactin, lactating).. Please keep us posted on your progress....Originally Posted by ABiLiTY
08-16-2006, 09:56 AM
letro should help progestin though right?
08-16-2006, 10:14 PM
Letro is an AI.. Progestin is synthetic progesterone . The concern is a AAS with progestinic properties.. Letro has been shown to help reduce progesterone receptors but its main use is as an AI. Remeber progesterone needs estrogen for gyno to form so as long as estrogen is kept in check progesterone is usally not a concern. There are meds that help with progesteorne like RU-486 . But like I said if estrogen is kept in check you should be fine..Originally Posted by ABiLiTY
08-16-2006, 10:19 PM
Please check out my sticky if you have not seen it as there is a lot of good info about your questions in it... Let us know if you have anyother questions and good luck!!! Here is a link
08-17-2006, 12:16 AM
Starting pct next week.
hopfully i can pull off igf-1 during this time.
08-17-2006, 09:28 AM
REQUESTING SOURCES IS NOT ALLOWED.
Shimmy, you obviously didnt read the rules. And have requested a source in over 3 threads. One more time, and you're banned.
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