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    jump start long-ester cycle


    i am beginning a cycle of either testosterone cypionate or enanth. and i was wondering if starting it with m1t or dbol would be a good idea. how long exactly does it take for these esters to begin working? i have heard they take anywhere from 7-21 days to become noticeable. how long should i take the m1t or dbol if i am looking to just use it to start a test cycle? thank you,
    -Wanderlei

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    Welcome to Aminds!! What are your stats and prior cycle history so we can give you advise!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercedesdd
    Welcome to Aminds!! What are your stats and prior cycle history so we can give you advise!!
    i am 24, i have only used supplements.

    i am 5'10, 190 lbs, bf 15-20%.
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    Cool , Can you lay out what your cycle will look like?? How many mg per week how long and so on!!!
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    Red face


    Quote Originally Posted by mercedesdd
    Cool , Can you lay out what your cycle will look like?? How many mg per week how long and so on!!!
    lol.. sigh...

    i am going to do 10 weeks @ 600 mg, or 12 weeks @ 500mg. not too sure which at this point.

    i suppose it doesn't matter much anyway-- in terms of my gains, strength........ or my question! is m1t a worthwhile fast-acting oral to take to jump-start a long-ester cycle?! anyone??
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    You can try dbol !! I think it would be a good kick start for your cycle .. I think 500 mg EW or test would be a good start for you.. Not trying to make you jump through hoops man it just helps us to help you knowing this info.. You can do something like this..

    wk 1-4 dbol 35-40 mg ED ( does split through out the day)
    wk 1-10 500 mg of cyp or test E ( one shot mon of 250mg and another on thurs)
    Proper pct

    Since your BF% is kinda high make sure you do a clen bulk( eat as clean as possible) Keep you cals up and make sure you get enough carbs protein and fat from the right kind of food.. If you put on to much fat by eating the wrong way you will regret it later when you go to cut.. Keep your training and diet right as this is the most important aspect of your cycle.. Good luck and keep us posted on you progress...
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercedesdd
    You can try dbol !! I think it would be a good kick start for your cycle .. I think 500 mg EW or test would be a good start for you.. Not trying to make you jump through hoops man it just helps us to help you knowing this info.. You can do something like this..

    wk 1-4 dbol 35-40 mg ED ( does split through out the day)
    wk 1-10 500 mg of cyp or test E ( one shot mon of 250mg and another on thurs)
    Proper post cycle therapy

    Since your BF% is kinda high make sure you do a clen bulk( eat as clean as possible) Keep you cals up and make sure you get enough carbs protein and fat from the right kind of food.. If you put on to much fat by eating the wrong way you will regret it later when you go to cut.. Keep your training and diet right as this is the most important aspect of your cycle.. Good luck and keep us posted on you progress...
    heh.. no problem

    i was actually kind of hoping to give the m1t a try for the first 2 weeks (or 4 weeks.. if you say so :P). i know it's a harsh oral. i know it can cause lethargy and isn't a great idea to be taking long-term.. but would it be as effective as dbol to jump-start my cyp. cycle? i can get 14 pills from a friend for free... and i've heard there isn't really much of a difference between the two in terms of short-term effectiveness, so i would really prefer to take the m1t's instead of buying a whooole new bottle of dbol!

    do i really need to take an oral for the first 4 weeks? i thought the longer esters kicked in to some degree within a week.. some have even told me 3-4 days before i am experiencing the mood lifts and strength benefits of the test. would it help if i started off the cycle, perhaps the first month, injecting 300mg twice a week? would the extra 100 mg per week make it more noticeable? ideally i would like to just do the test by itself for 12 weeks @ 500mg.. but i am afraid i will have a less-effective cycle if i am having to wait up to a month before i notice anything..
    -thanks,
    Wand.
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    oh yeah.. and my bf% is probably more like 10-15.. i have a six-pack
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandy
    heh.. no problem

    i was actually kind of hoping to give the m1t a try for the first 2 weeks (or 4 weeks.. if you say so :P). i know it's a harsh oral. i know it can cause lethargy and isn't a great idea to be taking long-term.. but would it be as effective as dbol to jump-start my cyp. cycle? i can get 14 pills from a friend for free... and i've heard there isn't really much of a difference between the two in terms of short-term effectiveness, so i would really prefer to take the m1t's instead of buying a whooole new bottle of dbol!

    do i really need to take an oral for the first 4 weeks? i thought the longer esters kicked in to some degree within a week.. some have even told me 3-4 days before i am experiencing the mood lifts and strength benefits of the test. would it help if i started off the cycle, perhaps the first month, injecting 300mg twice a week? would the extra 100 mg per week make it more noticeable? ideally i would like to just do the test by itself for 12 weeks @ 500mg.. but i am afraid i will have a less-effective cycle if i am having to wait up to a month before i notice anything..
    -thanks,
    Wand.

    Not sure about M1t for a kickstart( someone else can help here) . As far as long esters working in a few days or a week it is not TRUE. It can take up to five weeks or so for cyp or test E to kick in !! Even fast acting esters dont give strength gains in a few days .. I would just stick to 500mg per week of test for the entire cycle ( no need to really use a higher dose for the first month .. Make sure you research you post cycle therapy also.. Hope this helps!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercedesdd
    Not sure about M1t for a kickstart( someone else can help here) . As far as long esters working in a few days or a week it is not TRUE. It can take up to five weeks or so for cyp or test E to kick in !! Even fast acting esters dont give strength gains in a few days .. I would just stick to 500mg per week of test for the entire cycle ( no need to really use a higher dose for the first month .. Make sure you research you post cycle therapy also.. Hope this helps!!
    would two weeks be more realistic? i can get 2 weeks worth of orals.. would there be any boosts from the cypionate after 14 days that could compare to taking 10 mg of m1t a day so that i could go off of it and just let the cyp. take over? i would think i would be getting something out of it after two weeks... i am injecting testosterone.. i figured it would do something within a week or two before it peaks...
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    Sorry not sure on anything OTC just prescrption anabolics.. But I will bump it for you for more m1t info!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercedesdd
    Sorry not sure on anything OTC just prescrption anabolics.. But I will bump it for you for more m1t info!!!!!
    not doing anything otc... just m1t (maybe) then test, then nolva. thanks though.
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    LOL ya know PH over the counter ( same diffrence haha)!!! It will take more than two weeks for the test to kick in and give you steady blood levels so even with m1t I think you would need a longer period than two weeks for a kick!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercedesdd
    LOL ya know PH over the counter ( same diffrence haha)!!! It will take more than two weeks for the test to kick in and give you steady blood levels so even with m1t I think you would need a longer period than two weeks for a kick!!!!
    yeah i know, but like i was asking.. not having steady blood levels doesn't necessarily mean no test in the blood... right? are you saying after two weeks of injecting cyp i still wont be feeling the effects of the test? i find that hard to believe... then again i am a newb.. lol.

    ..and m1-T is definitely not a prohormone... but you knew that.. right!?
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    I would personally stay away from m1t, that is harsh stuff and I dont see a reason to take it. There are orals out there that are harsh right now, yet still seem to be safer than m1t. Get some dbol or use one of the legal orals to start it off. I agree with using for 4weeks. It takes around 4 weeks for test levels to reach the top and its always nice to have some gains during the beginning of your cycle. Make sure to go easy on dosage for whatever you use and get something to help with the liver and cholesterol and you should be golden.

    (hint: anabolic innovations a board sponser here carries a all in one product that helps with lipids, liver, and prostate I believe, its $30 for a month, so perfect for what you need).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandy
    yeah i know, but like i was asking.. not having steady blood levels doesn't necessarily mean no test in the blood... right? are you saying after two weeks of injecting cyp i still wont be feeling the effects of the test? i find that hard to believe... then again i am a newb.. lol.

    ..and m1-T is definitely not a prohormone... but you knew that.. right!?
    M1T not a PH???????? Most dont feel cyp or test E for about five weeks... You might feel a increase in libido but you wont see or feel much for 5 weeks ( give or take)!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by snakebyte05
    I would personally stay away from m1t, that is harsh stuff and I dont see a reason to take it. There are orals out there that are harsh right now, yet still seem to be safer than m1t. Get some dbol or use one of the legal orals to start it off. I agree with using for 4weeks. It takes around 4 weeks for test levels to reach the top and its always nice to have some gains during the beginning of your cycle. Make sure to go easy on dosage for whatever you use and get something to help with the liver and cholesterol and you should be golden.

    (hint: anabolic innovations a board sponser here carries a all in one product that helps with lipids, liver, and prostate I believe, its $30 for a month, so perfect for what you need).


    Use the Dbol if you can get it. it is better then what you can get OTC in a number of ways esp with the safety record.

    Cycle support kicks ass. So does there whey.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercedesdd
    M1T not a PH???????? Most dont feel cyp or test E for about five weeks... You might feel a increase in libido but you wont see or feel much for 5 weeks ( give or take)!!!
    i've heard after about a week on cyp or enan you have 5 times the testosterone of an adult man... i would think that would help my lifts... :P::bb:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skye


    Use the Dbol if you can get it. it is better then what you can get OTC in a number of ways esp with the safety record.

    Cycle support kicks ass. So does there whey.
    can you recommend anything decent that i could get otc? i cant get dbol right now.. just m1t.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandy
    can you recommend anything decent that i could get otc?
    There are several options. I would get the opinion of someone that is more up on them. For myselfI haven't gone near a designer steriod sence M1T. That should have been a wakeup call for a lot of people. I would frontload the test if I was in that big of a hurry rather then screw with my liver/health. For real I don't think that you will need it. by week 5 your going to be having fun.

    another option that I kind of like is transdermal test. starts working that day. Test prop up front also works well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skye
    There are several options. I would get the opinion of someone that is more up on them. For myselfI haven't gone near a designer steriod sence M1T. That should have been a wakeup call for a lot of people. I would frontload the test if I was in that big of a hurry rather then screw with my liver/health. For real I don't think that you will need it. by week 5 your going to be having fun.

    another option that I kind of like is transdermal test. starts working that day. Test prop up front also works well.
    Agree on the prop but since it is his first cycle dont think it is necessary plus the Ed or EOD prop injections for a first time cycle is no fun. Dbol would be best I think or maybe a transdermal like you said!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skye
    There are several options. I would get the opinion of someone that is more up on them. For myselfI haven't gone near a designer steriod sence M1T. That should have been a wakeup call for a lot of people. I would frontload the test if I was in that big of a hurry rather then screw with my liver/health. For real I don't think that you will need it. by week 5 your going to be having fun.

    another option that I kind of like is transdermal test. starts working that day. Test prop up front also works well.
    i really would prefer to just stay away from taking anything other than the cypionate. i have heard dbol and m1t aren't too far off from one another.. so i'd prefer to just stay away from both if it isn't going to make a big difference.

    by frontloading.. do you mean injecting more for a period of time at the beginning? how much would i need for that? i would like to do 10 weeks @ 500mg a week... which gives me a little over 1000mg to play with.. (20 ml is on the way! )

    i might be able to get ahold of a few shots of prop... but i get he feeling that wouldn't be enough to start off my cyp cycle with..
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercedesdd
    Agree on the prop but since it is his first cycle dont think it is necessary plus the Ed or EOD prop injections for a first time cycle is no fun. Dbol would be best I think or maybe a transdermal like you said!!
    like i said, i'm not able to get ahold of any transdermals or dbol.. i'm not impatient but i want to get this cycle done before september... just my preference. if i have to skip the boost for the first few weeks or so i wont care much.. i can go heavy in the gym without the chems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandy
    like i said, i'm not able to get ahold of any transdermals or dbol.. i'm not impatient but i want to get this cycle done before september... just my preference. if i have to skip the boost for the first few weeks or so i wont care much.. i can go heavy in the gym without the chems.
    There you go man!! Just go with the cyp for a first cycle and you can add stuff next time around!! And frontloading is using will say prop for the hell of it LOL( for like four weeks ) until the longer ester kicks in!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandy
    i really would prefer to just stay away from taking anything other than the cypionate. i have heard dbol and m1t aren't too far off from one another.. so i'd prefer to just stay away from both if it isn't going to make a big difference.

    by frontloading.. do you mean injecting more for a period of time at the beginning? how much would i need for that? i would like to do 10 weeks @ 500mg a week... which gives me a little over 1000mg to play with.. (20 ml is on the way! )

    i might be able to get ahold of a few shots of prop... but i get he feeling that wouldn't be enough to start off my cyp cycle with..
    fontloading is taking more up front to reduce the amount of time that it takes to build up the depot. for a medium long ester like cyp ether double the dosage the first week ( can give you the "test" flu) or go 1.5 times your dosage for the first 2 weeks. If your in a hurry its fine but it is not necessary at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercedesdd
    There you go man!! Just go with the cyp for a first cycle and you can add stuff next time around!! And frontloading is using will say prop for the hell of it LOL( for like four weeks ) until the longer ester kicks in!!
    yea it doesn;t matter much to me.. i'm on N.O. stuff and creatine ester so i like going to the gym as is
    plus if the cyp starts kicking in slowly after a couple weeks i can definitely wait.. no biggy

    thanks for the infos.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skye
    fontloading is taking more up front to reduce the amount of time that it takes to build up the depot. for a medium long ester like cyp ether double the dosage the first week ( can give you the "test" flu) or go 1.5 times your dosage for the first 2 weeks. If your in a hurry its fine but it is not necessary at all.
    hmm... i could go 750mg for the first two weeks... this is my first cycle so i'm trying to keep the dosage low.. but if the results would be significant in the first two weeks i might just go for that and see what happens. if the test flu comes on i'll just drop it back to 500mg.

    any suggestions?
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    No prob !! Skye is correct on frontloading. I made a mistake as I have been on here all day and it is like 3 am( not a good excuse but true none the less LOL) .. Sorry for saying the wrong info.. I need to go to bed! Well good luck !!!
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    i'm not in a hurry! i would just prefer to have things kick in faster than 5 weeks. it really doesn't matter to me though, i'm doing 11-12 weeks either way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercedesdd
    No prob !! Skye is correct on frontloading. I made a mistake as I have been on here all day and it is like 3 am( not a good excuse but true none the less LOL) .. Sorry for saying the wrong info.. I need to go to bed! Well good luck !!!
    haha no problem.. i kind of figured thats what he meant anyways. 3:30 am here! lol
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    Some guys do call it kickstart or frontload( use dbol , prop or something until the long ester kicks) and so on... But the correct term is what skye stated for frontload!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandy
    hmm... i could go 750mg for the first two weeks... this is my first cycle so i'm trying to keep the dosage low.. but if the results would be significant in the first two weeks i might just go for that and see what happens. if the test flu comes on i'll just drop it back to 500mg.

    any suggestions?
    If you want to do that it is fine. personal choice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skye
    If you want to do that it is fine. personal choice.
    i think i will look into it for sure. i know i'm a first time user so i should really stick to the lower doses, but i figure things will work out fine if i keep it to 500mg for the remaining 8 or 9 weeks... plus i'm not doing anything other than test. 750mg a week of cyp isn't that big, is it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandy
    i think i will look into it for sure. i know i'm a first time user so i should really stick to the lower doses, but i figure things will work out fine if i keep it to 500mg for the remaining 8 or 9 weeks... plus i'm not doing anything other than test. 750mg a week of cyp isn't that big, is it?
    no and your not getting 750mg of test anyways. go read this for a full explaination

    ChemicalFitness

    also for gen info ChemicalFitness
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    IMO - -

    dont bother frontloading. use the M1T if you want for 2 weeks - it wont kill you, and its effects aren't far off anadrol (not as much strength though)

    trust me - going big early does not behoove you later on. receptors get saturated (debated), SHBG builds up faster, cortisol jumps sooner, etc - makes for the last few weeks not being as good as possible.

    and whoever told you that after a week of "cypionate" you have 5x the test of an average man had no grasp of chemistry or anabolics. you might "feel" the extra test before week 2 is up, but the GAINS you get from it dont really begin to appear until week 3-5...some take even longer.
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    This is not a flame on the original poster, or Skye or Mercedes, but am I the only one concerned that it seems this guy has no real idea of what he's doing? Though, I am glad you guys have decided to help him, because he would probably do it anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
    This is not a flame on the original poster, or Skye or Mercedes, but am I the only one concerned that it seems this guy has no real idea of what he's doing? Though, I am glad you guys have decided to help him, because he would probably do it anyway.
    I just read all the other posts and I would agree. I could understand confusing when test kicks in, many dont understand that very well as is. Also as far as I know m1t isnt anything like dbol.


    same_old- as far as the m1t not killing him, if one is worried about saturating recepters to early, I think one should be worried about their liver with how bad m1t is. The recepters seems like a lesser problem here than using the m1t. Anyways, if he takes an appropriate break after his pct like it is recommended for everyone to do, than I dont think he needs to worry about using very high dosages for his next cycle either. JMO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
    This is not a flame on the original poster, or Skye or Mercedes, but am I the only one concerned that it seems this guy has no real idea of what he's doing? Though, I am glad you guys have decided to help him, because he would probably do it anyway.
    you sound awfully concerned. thanks for providing no advice or information whatsoever. i'm not too sure why you think i would "do it anyways", but you can take your roid forum superiority complex ------> that way.

    sorry if i'm not an expert on steroids guys. i have researched the subject enough to do a cycle for the reasons i am doing it for, and am looking for advice on how to dose the cypionate early on without having to take an oral like m1t or dbol. i want to do a low-dose cycle. i stated that clearly... and i want to stay away from taking anything else to start the cycle... it's pretty obvious i need help with this.. otherwise i would have 1000+ posts like you.. and also wouldn't be making a thread blatantly asking for your help.. you are very observant though.. lol

    and for whoever was mentionning dbol not being anything like m1t.. are they both not fast-acting oral steroids? that is what i was asking about.. so whatever else you had in mind doesn't really have any bearing on our discussion.. but if you have something else to add, please do, because your above post was pretty uninformative. don't just try to negate everyone else's suggestions without providing some of your own.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandy
    you sound awfully concerned. thanks for providing no advice or information whatsoever. i'm not too sure why you think i would "do it anyways", but you can take your roid forum superiority complex ------> that way.

    sorry if i'm not an expert on steroids guys. i have researched the subject enough to do a cycle for the reasons i am doing it for, and am looking for advice on how to dose the cypionate early on without having to take an oral like m1t or dbol. i want to do a low-dose cycle. i stated that clearly... and i want to stay away from taking anything else to start the cycle... it's pretty obvious i need help with this.. otherwise i would have 1000+ posts like you.. and also wouldn't be making a thread blatantly asking for your help.. you are very observant though.. lol

    and for whoever was mentionning dbol not being anything like m1t.. are they both not fast-acting oral steroids? that is what i was asking about.. so whatever else you had in mind doesn't really have any bearing on our discussion.. but if you have something else to add, please do, because your above post was pretty uninformative. don't just try to negate everyone else's suggestions without providing some of your own.
    It is pretty ironic you are commenting on my "roid forum mentality". Firstly, because I haven't taken anabolic steroids, I made sure to do more than adequate research before coming to an informed decision. Secondly, because you are on a "roid forum" asking questions.

    Anyway, which oral you choose to jump start your cycle with is entirely dependent on your goals. Given your slightly higher than average bodyfat, I would go with something that is going to provide a little less bloat, and more maintainable gains. However, if strength and mass are your main concern an oral like D-Bol is going to provide alot of mass right away, albeit much water weight with it, and because of that added weight some decent strength gains. If you don't mind pinning you could also incorporate Prop, or if you can source powders brew up some Test Base Transdermals.

    My point was, you should have all of this info BEFORE hand, so you don't come across as ignorant. And the concern was a basic human one, too many people put anabolic steroids into their body without having any knowledge of what effect it is having inside the body. Also, stating something like "I'm ignorant, help me" with your arrogant comments doesn't excuse you from not doing all the research you could of. Anyway, I do not wish to argue with you and I am glad you have come here to further your knowledge, and I hope the information you intake from AM.com helps make your cycle as successful as possible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
    My point was, you should have all of this info BEFORE hand
    before what exactly? you have no knowledge whatsoever on my plans. you popped by to make a borderline flame comment and left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
    so you don't come across as ignorant. And the concern was a basic human one, too many people put anabolic steroids into their body without having any knowledge of what effect it is having inside the body.
    so how about instead of being a useless troll you give some advice? i didn't ask regular roid users to stop by my thread to belittle me in order to showcase their chems knowledge and leave.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
    Also, stating something like "I'm ignorant, help me" with your arrogant comments doesn't excuse you from not doing all the research you could of.
    lol what does that mean exactly? i i didn't make single arrogant comment until you showed up.

    the entire point of my starting this thread was to further my knowledge, so thanks for the pep talk. you have not contributed to anything. if you wanted to help then you should have taken a different approach other than stating "oh you don't know as much as i do about steroids". get over it.
    ...and suggesting i do transdermals and prop and/or dbol stacked with cyp for my first cycle? i'm pretty sure you do too many steroids there ace, to think that is a good first cycle.

    oh and p.s., your lats could use ALOT of work, not to mention your tri's.
    ^ that is an example of constructive criticism, give it a shot sometime.
  

  
 

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