First cycle advice, gyno on cycle?
- 05-30-2006, 12:32 AM
First cycle advice, gyno on cycle?
Hi all, I am new here and I have a question. I've searched the **** out of this forum, but I can't see to find a definitive answer.
Ive just started my first cycle (besides obligatory SD bull****), which is 400mg/w of Test C. Today marks the start of my third week. I took one week of Dianabol at 50mg/day for the first week, but it made me break out too bad so I discontinued use.
However, my question is this. Under my right nipple is a small hard lump, obviously the beginning stages of gyno. It is slightly sensitive as well. I took a dose of 10mg of nolva today, and plan on continuing that throughout my cycle. I'm wondering if this will this be effective enough, or will I need to cease my test injections untill this is better?
Any help is greatly appreciated.
- 05-30-2006, 12:40 AM
I am a girl but I dont think a hard lump constitutes gyno, prolly tissue swelling, even high amounts of caffiene can do that to women, maybe even men I dont know, take a picture for the pros here.
- 05-30-2006, 12:42 AM
Up your dose to 40mg of nolva and try that for a few days, but still continue to run your cycle. If it doesnt subside or go away, then you might wanna stop it. If it goes away, try running some adex or letro for the rest of your cycle so it doesnt come back.
05-30-2006, 12:48 AM
Its actually not *sensitive*, but it hurts if I poke the knot thing. It also isn't puffy so a picture wouldnt do any good. Sorry if it seems that I'm over reacting, but I'm playing it safe because I dont want to **** up on my first cycle.Originally Posted by FitnFirm
05-30-2006, 12:49 AM
Hey bro, I totally understand. Its not something you want to mess with. Just try the nolva at 40mg for a few days and see how that goes.Originally Posted by RoboGiblets
05-30-2006, 08:49 PM
Couple other things. Would taking an AI such as 6-oxo help the problem?
Secondly, could this be a flare up from taking Superdrol around february this year?
05-30-2006, 10:45 PM
I would listen to idunk and just up the nolva to 40 mgs.That should do the trick.Originally Posted by RoboGiblets
06-14-2006, 08:15 AM
Hate to bump old threads, but I guess its better than making a new one.
Guys, that lump under my nipple is still there.
There is no visibile change in the nipple and it hasnt gotten worse since Ive been on nolva, but it hasnt gone away. Will this lump ever go away or will it require surgery?
Also, should I just continue nolva or stop my cycle alltogether?
Thanks for the advice.
06-14-2006, 08:30 AM
Originally Posted by RoboGiblets
It could be anything bro. It could be fat tissue in your breast area. Alot of even skinny guys will have fat around their breast. I would see a doctor if you are concerned about it. Gyno that has formed will not go away with medication; it requires surgery. I have big nipples from pubertal gyno, which will not go away without surgery. They don't bother me; in fact they give me motivation to train harder. If its worrying you that much, see a doc.
06-14-2006, 08:35 AM
Well, the only thing is it was definately not there before. I have small nipples as it is, lol, so it isnt noticeable.Originally Posted by RenegadeRows
Im just concerned if I continue or stop nolva it will get worse and become a real problem.
06-14-2006, 08:39 AM
That's why you need to see a doctor and get bloodwork done. Nolvadex is for prohibiting estrogen from attaching itself to your breasts. Guys shouldn't have that problem, because normally we have a homeostasis (a balance of test and estro), unless we come off cycle and our balance is out of wack (high estrogen, no test). So we take nolva until we balance ourselves out again. I could be wrong, but if you haven't taken PH/AAS in a few months ,and your lump is still growing, you need to see a doc!Originally Posted by RoboGiblets
06-14-2006, 01:13 PM
Originally Posted by RenegadeRows
Well currently I am on a cycle of just test. I have taken superdrol before in the past, which I suspect may be the cause. I guess when I get off cycle and my PCT doesnt cure it, Ill go to the doctor.
06-14-2006, 01:41 PM
Good idea bro. Good luck with itOriginally Posted by RoboGiblets
06-14-2006, 02:46 PM
Hey Robo, This is a post from my buddy on another board. He knows alot about gyno and he wrote this great piece of info!! You can give it a try if you like!!
I am posting this thread to help answer all of the questions regarding gyno prevention and reversal, the use of letrozole and other anti-e’s. I will go over everything in very simple easy to understand language. Also we are talking about estrogen gyno here, not progesterone (but using letro will stop progesterone related problems as well since it inhibits all estrogen anyways). Progesterone gyno will be enlargement of your nipple area, the actual aereola, not a lump under it.
Let me make this first point very clear, as I state in my signature this is from my personal experience, so whether you agree with it or not is your own issue. I have helped many people with gyno and it has worked just fine for them as well.
To first understand why you are doing what you are doing I am going to go over a few things and a few definitions:
SERM – Selective estrogen receptor modulator. These drugs work by binding to the estrogen receptors and flooding them in a sense, making it difficult (but not impossible by any means) for estrogen to bind to the receptors and thus prevent the onset of estrogen related side effects.
Most common forms: Tamoxifen (Nolvadex), Clomiphene (Clomid)
AI – Aromatise Inhibitor. These drugs work by inhibiting the aromatization of estrogen. This means that in effect AI’s prevent androgens from converting to estrogen, again, making it difficult (but not impossible) for estrogen to reach receptor sites.
Most common forms: Anastrozole (l-dex, a-dex), Exemestane (aromasin), Femera (letrozole). For our purpose of reversing gyno we are interested in Letro.
Letro and your sex drive:
Letrozole will suppress your sex drive. This is another reason why it is so important to act on preventing gyno as soon as possible. Since we all know that Test should be run in every cycle this will cancel out the effect of sex drive suppression.
Running letro to prevent gyno:
If you decide to run estrogen protection while on cycle (and I suggest you do unless you are aware that you do not require it), you can run either a SERM or an AI. Letro will be the most powerful AI you can use, it will inhibit 98+% of estrogen using a dose as low as .25mg and even lower. This is why I suggest you do not use a dose higher than .50mg while on cycle just trying to prevent estrogen related side effects.
You will want to start running the letro approximately 2 weeks before you begin your cycle to allow it to fully stabilize in your blood. I have often heard the argument that letro takes up to 60 days to stabilize, I don’t know if I buy into this for the reason that I have reversed gyno after using letro for only 1 week. Still to be safe I recommend starting it before your cycle as stated above.
If you do decide to run letro there is absolutely no need to run another AI or SERM. Do not make the mistake of thinking more is better. Think of it this way; if letro is preventing the conversion of androgens to estrogen than there is no estrogen, what would the purpose of a SERM be when there is no estrogen to bind to the receptors? Nolva will only take away from the effectiveness of letro.
This brings me to my next point. Do not listen to anyone who tells you to bump up your nolvadex to 60+mg ED if you get gyno. I have no idea where this idea started but I have seen it suggest far too many times recently. Nolvadex will do nothing to reverse your gyno…let me make that clear IT WILL DO NOTHING FOR GYNO. If you are running nolva as your anti-e and start to develop gyno than sure you can bump the dosage a small amount to try to prevent it from progressing further, but letrozole must begin ASAP.
It is very important that you begin taking letrozole immediately, the longer your wait the more risk you take in not being able to reverse it.
How do I know if I have gyno?
If you have developed gyno you will have a lump behind your nipple. It will be fairly hard, and it will be tender to touch.
Running letro to reverse gyno:
I am going to go over the three different scenarios which people could fit into. Remember regardless of what scenario you are in it is important that you begin taking the letro ASAP.
1. Already using an anti-e aside from letro.
2. Already using letro @ a dose of .25mg or .50mg ED.
3. Not running any estrogen protection.
Day 1: .25mg Letro + anti-e*
Day 2: .50mg Letro
Day 3: 1.0mg Letro
Day 4: 1.5mg Letro
Day 5: 2.0mg Letro
Day 6: 2.5mg Letro **
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **
*Regardless of the anti-e you are using it is important to still use it for the first day you begin letro as the letro will not have taken any effect and you by no means want your body to be without any protection when gyno is already prevalent.
** You will remain at this dose until gyno symptoms subside. Once you believe your gyno is gone it is important to stay at this dose for another 4-7 days to ensure all traces are gone. I recommend people with a bf% over 15 stay on for a week as it may be harder to judge completely whether the lump is completely gone. Once this period is over it will be important to taper letro down slowly rather than coming off it completely. Regardless of which manner you tapered up your dose you will all taper down in the same fashion.
Day 1: 2.0mg
Day 2: 1.5mg
Day 3: 1.0mg
Day 4: .50mg***
Day 5: .25mg
***You can remain at this dose or go down further to .25mg. It is really up to you at this point. They are both very common maintenance doses as an anti-e while on cycle. Personally I have stayed with .25mg and never had a problem.
Letro and the estrogen rebound:
With your estrogen being completely inhibited there is a definite estrogen rebound as your body tries to re-stabilize the testosterone:estrogen balance. We can prevent this rebound effect by supplementing further with another AI or SERM. So, I suggest that when you are coming to the end of your cycle you will more than likely be using Nolva in your PCT so just make sure that you begin taking nolva the last day you are going to take your letro and then continue on as you would with regular PCT.
This now leads us into the question of reversing gyno while not on cycle. There are a few things to remember here. You have already waited longer than you should have, and your sex drive will be shot. You can use tribulus or another natural test booster to help you in this scenario but I can’t guarantee the effectiveness. Just follow gyno reversal protocols 2 or 3. When coming off again you must taper and begin using nolvadex to prevent any rebound effect that may occur.
How much nolvadex should you use if you are not going into PCT and running this off cycle? I suggest starting at 20mg ED for a week and then lowering it to 10mg for another week and then coming off completely.
06-15-2006, 08:29 AM
Originally Posted by mercedesdd
Wow, thanks so much. I am ordering some Letro as we speak. Since it inhibits your sex drive, would it be a good idea to run it with my HCG after my cycle?
Again, thanks alot. You've eased my fears.
06-15-2006, 01:34 PM
Hope it helps!! Lots of people try this while on cycle . I would not try it in pct as I would suggest you let your body recover before you attempt this ( your hormone leveles will be really out if wack during pct so thats why I say that.. ) . You could start letro and possible follow the number 2 protocol ( i thinks its #2 you can re read to make sure ).. Well good luck and let us know how it works for ya!!!Originally Posted by RoboGiblets
06-15-2006, 06:40 PM
Well, my letro shipped today. Looks like Ill be able to run it on cycle since i have like 5 weeks of test left.Originally Posted by mercedesdd
06-26-2006, 11:19 PM
Not usually a big fan of bumping old threads, but Im doing this to say that WOW, letro is effective. Four days of treatment and it is almost entirely gone and no longer sensitive.
I think it needs to be more widely known that nolva is not the cure for gyno, but rather letro is.
This **** is amazing.
06-26-2006, 11:23 PM
I told you!!! Glad to hear it worked... There are so many stories like yours .. I get tons of emails and PM's saying that it has worked so well.. Very happy for you !!!Originally Posted by RoboGiblets
06-26-2006, 11:25 PM
All good suggestions i'm seeing and good choice of test , but 50mg of D-bol is too high to start with a beginner would be fine with 30mg, also D-bol aromatizes into what most refer to as super-girl estrogen that is alot more potent than your regular run of the mill estrogen so that could have caused your problem.
06-26-2006, 11:31 PM
Good point I agree about Dbol man.. He did stop it after using it only one week so it probably is not the cause but you never know LOL.........Originally Posted by CHAPS
09-17-2008, 11:12 AM
Way to jump on this in such a timely manner :-P
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