Tren, what is the real toxcicity?
- 05-20-2006, 11:33 AM
Tren, what is the real toxcicity?
Guys I am totally inexperienced with tren and i have heard about how bad it supposedly is for you relative to other gear, but yet I still see guys running it cycle after cycle. So let me post a proposd cycle and you guys let me know if my liver will likely drop out? Thanks.
Weeks 1-10 500mgs of Test Cyp
Weeks 1-10 300 mgs or Primo
Weeks 1-3 50mgs per day of Halodrol (just to kick off)
Weeks 3-9 50mgs of Tren EOD
Finish with some TST and TRN while longer esters get out of the system (to maintain androgen function in the mean time)
Weeks 10-16 PCT
- 05-20-2006, 05:45 PM
Originally Posted by Mr.50
Anabolic Innovations just came out with the new Cycle Support formula too and if you plan on using the Halo/Tren/TRN you might want to look into it because it has the heart/lipids/liver/prostate support that you are going to need. And if you experience prolactin sides cabergoline is the way to go (versus bromo)
- 05-20-2006, 06:18 PM
Trenbolone is said to be rough on the kidneys, yet to be proven.. It's no liver toxic, it has no methyl group.. A simple test prop/tren ace run works everytime, I don't see why people try to make these things so crowded with products..
05-20-2006, 06:21 PM
I hear what you are saying Pete. I guess I was trying to keep the Tren run short because of all the things I had heard (sounds like they may be overstated a bit). So I thought some of the more gentle things might do the trick but maybe I could run the Tren longer.
Originally Posted by bigpetefox
05-20-2006, 06:22 PM
Lake does the new product also assist with possible kidney problems? Thanks bro I am going to order some right now.
Originally Posted by LakeMountD
05-20-2006, 07:21 PM
05-21-2006, 01:12 AM
tren is def not for beginers but its not called the gear of the gods for nothing. Most of the horror stories you hear about tren is caused by people not respecting it, it is 2 to 3 times as strong as test and it tends to dehydrate you. If you keep these to things in mind its fine. I think most of the kidney "problems" is from the latter, people on cycle are usually taking all kinds of vits, protien, and other sups that the kidneys are having process while being short on water. That with the urine being darker is where I think that comes from. that is JM2C however.
It also doesn't take much. 50 to 75 mg EOD work fine for most people to start, with about 75 to 100mg ed the max any sane person would want. I strongly suspect that the people that have problems with are also running too much. if your 180 and running 75mg a day that is as much as some take at 280 and up, this where I think people are having problems.
I have to agree with bigpete on the stacking, more is not better with tren, half the time I think that you wouldn't notice weaker items over the tren anyways as it is that strong. test and tren works for ether cutting or bulking, for shorter cycles tren/dbol is one hell of a bulker. (watch out for those pumps.) for a really dry cutter you can stack it with provrion or/with primo. (be sure to have some proviron on had for any poblems that "don't come up" as some people here have said that the primo did cut it for them) You should avoid running it with winny though, winny can make for brittle tendons and tren makes you strong as hell, not a good combo.
05-21-2006, 02:39 AM
Wow thanks for the good post and info Skye.
Originally Posted by Skye
05-21-2006, 09:23 AM
Good post man. Yeah I plan on either running 75mg eod with a lot of test or running 50mg eod with a lot of test plus some npp to keep the joints lubricated. And yes this is another reason why I came up with the idea of the cycle support formula, because these things aren't dangerous if you are taking precautions. I truthfully plan on taking it year round, taking half the dosage during off times, which would only cost .50 per day. I think I can handle that .Originally Posted by Skye
05-21-2006, 10:10 AM
Stimulatory Effects of Silibinin and Silicristin from the Milk Thistle Silybum marianum on Kidney CellsOriginally Posted by Mr.50
Johann Sonnenbichler, Fortunato Scalera, Isolde Sonnenbichler and Roland Weyhenmeyer
Max Planck Institute for Biochemistry, Martinsried, Germany (J.S., F.S., I.S.); and Madaus AG, Köln, Germany (R.W.)
The biochemical influence of flavonolignans from the milk thistle Silybum marianum has been tested on kidney cells of African green monkeys. Two nonmalignant cell lines were selected, with the focus of the work on the fibroblast-like Vero line. Proliferation rate, biosynthesis of protein and DNA, and the activity of the enzyme lactate dehydrogenase (as a measure of the cellular metabolic activity) were chosen as parameters for the effect of the flavonolignans. Silibinin and silicristin show remarkable stimulatory effects on these parameters, mainly in Vero cells; however, isosilibinin and silidianin proved to be inactive. In vitro experiments with kidney cells damaged by paracetamol, cisplatin, and vincristin demonstrated that administration of silibinin before or after the chemical-induced injury can lessen or avoid the nephrotoxic effects. The results warrant in vivo evaluations of the flavonolignan derivatives.
05-21-2006, 10:15 AM
Top notch Lake. Thanks.
05-21-2006, 12:13 PM
don't run NPP with tren .. not fun to recover and very possible to cause gyno
05-21-2006, 12:29 PM
Tren is a substance that is loved by many and hated by some. Individuals often dislike tren because of how strange it makes them feel. If it effects you in this manner, then you will understand why some hate it some much.
Some also believe that for some reasons it may cause some lung damage at higher dosages. There are a few people who claimed to have lung issues(such as scarring) with no explanation other than high dosages of tren and frequent "tren coughs". Of course, this is entirely speculation.
Last edited by size; 05-21-2006 at 06:17 PM.
05-21-2006, 12:46 PM
Size could you elaborate a bit on the "strangeness" factor? What type of "strangeness" do people feel? Is there a predisposition to cause depression when taken alone? How about when taken with a sufficient dosage of Test? Thanks bro.
Originally Posted by size
05-22-2006, 02:45 PM
It is difficult to explain, and it does not matter what the tren is taken with. Some individuals develop just a very odd feeling that stays consistent with the usage of tren. It is almost a sense of somethign not being right but one is unable to recognize exactly what is wrong. I have never been able to pin point why this would occur or what exactly may cause it.Originally Posted by Mr.50
05-22-2006, 04:39 PM
Also crazy crazy very vivid dreams. @ least for me..
05-22-2006, 05:54 PM
Here's the universal answer:
There's no universal answer. It differs from person to person. Some people get no sides whatsoever; some people get every side possible. That's pretty much true of any drug.
Personally, the only thing tren does to me that's really bad is shuts me down completely. I run test with tren ever since one horrid experience without it.
Tren also makes my hunger go through the roof.
I've run it 200 mg/ED. Great results from that and 500 mg/wk TC with proper anti-E's. I like higher doses like that if I'm doing any sort of keto diets.
I think 50 mg/EOD will be a little light but you've got a bunch of other stuff in there- too complicated for me, I like to follow the keep it simple rule.
05-22-2006, 06:02 PM
I'm on Test Prop+Tren Ace right now 150mg/75mg eod i'm 4 days and the pumps and strength are already starting, i'm also having trouble sleeping, my body temperature seems to really climb at night, i wake up feeling like i'm on Clen. But so far i'm loving the stuff, i'm currently dieting and running the Tren for 5 weeks and Test for 8 (lack of funds), can't wait to see the end results, i already feel great on it though. And ya my dreams have been different lately, more vivid. Considering it's the #1 steroid for strength and fatloss (polled on this site) i'll put up with the sleep problems, who cares Oh ya one more thing, i'm sweating WAY more when doing any kind of exercise.
05-22-2006, 06:45 PM
Test alone heated me up like a damn furnace at night!!!!!Originally Posted by CHAPS
05-22-2006, 09:06 PM
Is it normal to run tren acetate for significant periods of time (10-12 weeks) because there are a lot of guys around here doing that and I am just wondering if the don't know what the He#l they are doing or if it really is ok?
Also is even one beer safe on something like tren (I know the toxcicty is overrated but......)?
05-22-2006, 09:18 PM
I'm definatly interested in all this as well. This winter I have toyed with many ideas of something to use, and tren is one, its been on my mind for a long time now.
05-22-2006, 09:23 PM
I think people overrate the toxicity. 16 weeks is the longest I've ever run tren, and there were no complications. I don't drink when I'm on, that's just my preference, but one beer isn't going to do ****. Unless you're abusing alcohol I don't think it's too much of a concern.Originally Posted by Mr.50
And yeah, anabolics in general are going to heat you up and make it hard to sleep. Tren especially does that to me as others in this thread have noted. My hematocrit levels go sky high, especially on tren- that's the reason, I think. Your body is better at oxygen transport with higher hematocrit levels, so there's more fuel for the fire!
05-22-2006, 09:29 PM
Insomnia seems to occur more frequently with tren than any other AAS.
05-22-2006, 09:33 PM
Tren coughs aren't caused by tren alone- it's a side effect of most injectable steroids. It's from the BA! If you read the insert of TC from a US pharmacy, it lists coughing as one of the potential side effects.Originally Posted by size
That cough SUCKS. If you've ever gotten an injection a little into a vein, you'll get it BAD. Ugh.
And yeah, the higher dose probably causes more of it due to the higher BA needed to keep the higher concentrations suspended (or the higher amount of it that you're injecting every day).
Regardless of WHAT you're injecting, if you inject something every day into the same set of sites you're going to get scarring. Period. Scarring is caused by DAMAGE to the tissue. Damaged tissue has more of a likelihood to have some kind of "open" vein/artery running into it while it's healing- hence the greater propensity for the cough later in a cycle.... especially with daily injections.
05-23-2006, 12:56 AM
BA does not cause tren coughs. that is a mith and to prove it we have had the tren made with out it and the cough still comes. Never coughed on anything else other then tren.Originally Posted by coroner
You were running 1.4grams of tren a week? It increased your hunger? are you sure you aren't confusing it for something else? because 1.4 grams a week might put you in the "Dee Dee Dee awards"
Mr. 50 if your running tren at a reasonable level there is no reason that I know of not to run it for up to 12 weeks. There have been people that have ran it for a year. All the same I would use all the standared percautions and use HCG as it will shrink the boys.
05-23-2006, 03:45 AM
and does it really give you more acne then other steroids (like some people get more acne from test than they do from tren)? Could this be related to the stress on the body related to the drug?
05-23-2006, 03:54 AM
Hey i also noticed you said this regarding his cycle, i know you are not suppose to stack tren and deca but would it be possible to include in your stack a small dose of npp like 25mg day without that increased chance. likeOriginally Posted by glenihan
Test Prop Week 1-6:75mg day
Test Prop Week 6-10:100mg day
Tren Ace Week 1-9: 60mg EOD
NPP Week 1-9: 25mg ed
05-23-2006, 05:59 AM
Thanks Skye. For that purpose what would be a reasonable dosing amount and schedule for the HCG?
Originally Posted by Skye
05-23-2006, 06:24 AM
I'm on my first Tren cycle now and love it! Only taking 50 mg EOD and getting great results, muscle hardness, strength, lower body fat, etc. have all improved. 50 mg EOD is on the light side but I think it proves more is not always better especially for first time using Tren. Haven't noticed any of the sides either including tren cough.
05-23-2006, 06:58 AM
250iu twice a week. I like swales method really well and have never heard anything bad about it yet. Some people like to run 500iu twice a week or more but I don't see why as 250 will work most ever time. If needed you can just go to 3 or more times a week but I doubt that you will need to do so. Enjoy your cycle :Originally Posted by Mr.50
05-23-2006, 07:02 AM
I was not implying build up of scarring at injection sties. I was indicating that some have speculated that high dosages of tren can lead to lung scarring(pulmonary fibrosis).Originally Posted by coroner
The majority of individuals recognize that frequent injections into the same locations will lead to scar tissue.
05-23-2006, 07:29 AM
I thought some of you may find this interesting.
Cholestasis induced by parabolan successfully treated with the molecular adsorbent recirculating system.
Anand JS, Chodorowski Z, Hajduk A, Waldman W.
Clinic of Internal Medicine and Acute Poisonings, Medical University of Gdansk, Ul. Debinki 7, 80-211 Gdansk, Poland.
We describe a case of a 21-year-old male bodybuilder who overdosed on Parabolan (trenbolone acetate) because of its anabolic activity. The patient, with no previous medical history, experienced pruritus and yellow discoloration of the skin and sclerae. Basic biochemical laboratory examination revealed signs of cholestasis with a serum bilirubin level of up to 65.5 mg/dl. Because supportive medical treatment was ineffective, the patient was treated with the molecular adsorbent recirculating system (MARS). Five MARS cycles lasting from 8 to 12 hours were performed every second day. The procedure was well tolerated by the patient and resulted in a sustained relief of pruritus. At the 2-month follow-up visit the plasma bilirubin level had decreased to 2 mg/dl.
05-23-2006, 07:59 AM
Seeing as how most of us agree a Test Prop/Tren Ace combo is sufficient for a cycle. What are yalls thoughts on throwing in EQ to the mix for adding some increased definition and vascularity to a cutting cycle?
05-23-2006, 08:39 AM
Overkill in my opinion. Tren, in my experience, has been better than eq in those regards anyway.Originally Posted by XxBiG_EDxX
05-23-2006, 09:00 AM
Originally Posted by jarhead
Cool, thanks. Thats basically what I was thinking. With the increased appetite from EQ in general, I don't think it would end up being much of a cutting cycle anyways
05-23-2006, 09:25 AM
Skye, when injecting eod, adding HCG twice per week can really turn you into a human pin cushion. However, I agree that HCG should be included. So, how do you administer? Do you just use the same syringe and inject IM or do you inject seperately (IM or subq)?Originally Posted by Skye
05-23-2006, 01:25 PM
I had a body that did Test/Tren/Eq and he looked like a road map! Another good combo i've been told is Test/Tren/Masteron for cutting.
Skye: Dee Dee Dee awards? Explain. And ya that is a ****load of tren to be using.
05-23-2006, 03:27 PM
05-23-2006, 04:05 PM
Thanks. Didn't really answer my question about decreasing inject's by combining or not combining, but good info nevertheless. During my last cycle, I was drawing the hcg/bact. water into the syringe first and then drawing the tren/test oil mix into the same syringe and injecting. It helps to decrease the number for pins/week but I have never heard definitively whether it is a bad idea or not.Originally Posted by Skye
05-23-2006, 05:40 PM
I doubt that it makes a differnce. I use a sln pin because it is nothing to use one.Originally Posted by bow
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