T4

[captainbicept]

being that 4ad is used mostly bulking, i was curious if any of you have used T4 by itself for a cycle. how were the results, and would you recomend it?

 

[dg806]

I would definately! I love 4-ad. The water retention helps my joint pain and the strength increase is as much as 1-test.

 

[sage]

4ad only cycles is fine. just depends on what you're looking for. however i will say this....with the added body mass and retention you will get, your strength should increase big times man. Dont be too worried about the bloat. Sage

 

[Kitchen Chemist]

Run some l-dex with it and run a hardcore dosage!

 

[Kitchen Chemist]

Oh ya, if i was to only run a 4-ad cycle, i'd look into a 4-ad cyp cycle to avoid applying trans twice a day, IMO anyways!

 

[Jarconis]

l-dex or l-femara , ive heard that femara was a better choice for a heavy 4ad cycle

 

[rjones]

Does anyone know what dosing would be needed to get 500 mgs of 4-ad abosorbed a week, similar to doing 500 mg a week on a test only cycle. As in how many squirts of T4 a day? Also, how much does nolva effect bloat, like 20 mg a day? I would still want some bloat but am worried about gyno.

 

[Kitchen Chemist]

1250mg a week, or 178mg a day . Only use the nolva when gyno signs appear.

 

[Kitchen Chemist]

I'd really like to hear some personal experience from someone who's done both only a 4-ad cycle and a test cycle. I personally don't believe it will be as effective but that's just my opinion.

 

[rjones]

So, isn't T4 50 mg/ml, and one squirt is 2 ml, would you only need one squirt in the morning and one at night to get over 500 mg a week (absorbed)? 2 squirts a day doesn't seem like enough.

 

[Kitchen Chemist]

Hold up, let me check curts program....
T4 is 12gr 4-ad with a application of 4 squirts a day and a total of 160ml absorbed/day and 1120 per week

 

[rjones]

Is that (4 squrits a day) the standard dosing? Or high dosing? I was talking 2 squirts total a day to give 80 mg absorbed a day, and 560 mg absorbed a week, wouldn't this be similar to 500 mg a week of test, if 4-ad is allegedly 95% as effective?

 

[Kitchen Chemist]

That's the thing if it was 95% as effective, everyone and there uncles sisters nephew would be using it, that's what i don't understand. Sorry bro, don't know what to tell ya.

 

[rjones]

So noone has used T4 only, or knows what a good dosing is? I am thinking of buying T4 and throwing in 2 grams of 1 test. Does anyone know what a good (fairly heavy) dosing would be? Thanks

 

[G.E.SUPERHUMAN]

im waiting for more feed back this is a good question, i was also wondering about a 4ad only cycle, but then again T1 is 10 grams of 4ad so ho much difference would 2 additinal grams make

 

[rjones]

That's true, but it is 20 bucks cheaper, and I am worried about hair loss some, I know how to protect from dht caused loss, as 4-ad causes, but 1-test causes loss by an unknown pathway, which worries me. It seems that mass gains could be just as good without the heavier 1-test dose, so why not save a little cash, and deal with something that has known sides that can be stopped. I have been looking for someone who's tried this, but have had little luck.

 

[G.E.SUPERHUMAN]

That's true, but it is 20 bucks cheaper, and I am worried about hair loss some, I know how to protect from dht caused loss, as 4-ad causes, but 1-test causes loss by an unknown pathway, which worries me. It seems that mass gains could be just as good without the heavier 1-test dose, so why not save a little cash, and deal with something that has known sides that can be stopped. I have been looking for someone who's tried this, but have had little luck.

How do u plan on minimizing ur dht feedback

 

[rjones]

Topical spiro is supposed to work well for hair loss prevention due to dht. Acne I'm not worried about, it's not permanent, and liquid nolva on hand if estrogen conversion starts to cause gyno, or if bloat gets out of hand, as I am pretty sure nolva reduces bloat. I am only worried about the hair and gyno, which there seems to be good prevention for when on 4-ad, unless anyone knows otherwise.

 

[Jarconis]

I pretty much came to that conclusion too, that Id rather fight estrogen related issues, than fight DHT related issues.

 

[dg806]

Reread my post closer. When I said I loved 4/ad, that meant I have done it by itself! Usually at a dosage of 600mg/day TD. It will swell you up but to me you don't look bloated. You will like the strength increases. For those interested, I do have hair issues on my Mom's side of the family and I have not noticed any hair problems!!! I take 4/ad with 1/test also.

 

[rjones]

What kind of 4-ad where you using, T4 at 600 mg a day? Are you talking absorbed or total. Also, were the strength and retained size gains similar to a 4-ad 1-test stack, or how did they compared? Also, how long did you run it for. Thanks for your help.

 

[dg806]

4/ad was Avant brand. It was applied(600mg). The gains for me are similar to 1-test. You just get a little water retention you don't get with 1-test. The cycles I have run have been 4 to 6 weeks.

 

[rjones]

Thanks dg. Also, do you know the Advant apsorption rate? Isn't it like 20%, so 600mg of 4aderm is like 300 of T4 a day? This is around the dosing I am considering, for about a 6 week cycle this summer.

 

[dg806]

No one knows for sure. So I hate to speculate. It's just an educated guess.

 

[curt2go]

I have done 1000mg sus/week and 500mg/week before(Indian Karachi or whatever it is).. To tell you the honest truth I woul ddo the sus any day. But i'm married now... If you do large enough amounts of 4-ad it will give you the same effect. I have done just 4-ad as well. I love it... No pins and works almost as good. I woul dhave to say that 600mg/day 4-ad is pretty close to the gains from 500mg sus/week. If you run them the same length.... But the sus will take a couple of weeks to kick in... (And yes people will disaggree..So let them.. hehehe)) So taking that into consideration I would say 4-ad is 1/3 as effective /dose as test(absorbed)... 600mg 4-ad/day = 1680mg absorbed / week compared to 500mg test /week...

Thats why I am FRONTLAODING my next 1-test cycle... I will keep you all posted...

 

[rjones]

Thanks curt. So 6 weeks at 600 mg applied a day should be similar to 500 mg a week of test? Do you think 6 weeks is a long enough cycle to get solid gains?

 

[dg806]

Originally posted by curt2go
I have done 1000mg sus/week and 500mg/week before(Indian Karachi or whatever it is).. To tell you the honest truth I woul ddo the sus any day. But i'm married now... If you do large enough amounts of 4-ad it will give you the same effect. I have done just 4-ad as well. I love it... No pins and works almost as good. I woul dhave to say that 600mg/day 4-ad is pretty close to the gains from 500mg sus/week. If you run them the same length.... But the sus will take a couple of weeks to kick in... (And yes people will disaggree..So let them.. hehehe)) So taking that into consideration I would say 4-ad is 1/3 as effective /dose as test(absorbed)... 600mg 4-ad/day = 1680mg absorbed / week compared to 500mg test /week...

Thats why I am FRONTLAODING my next 1-test cycle... I will keep you all posted...

Very interesting thought................You don't think you are stepping out on a limb with those figures?? Don't get me wrong...............I'm not trying to second guess you, I'm just trying to understand the thought behind this.

 

[rjones]

I think he was saying this is how it worked in his experience, not a scientific finding.

 

[CEDeoudes59]

I have done 1000mg sus/week and 500mg/week before(Indian Karachi or whatever it is).. To tell you the honest truth I woul ddo the sus any day. But i'm married now... If you do large enough amounts of 4-ad it will give you the same effect. I have done just 4-ad as well. I love it... No pins and works almost as good. I woul dhave to say that 600mg/day 4-ad is pretty close to the gains from 500mg sus/week. If you run them the same length.... But the sus will take a couple of weeks to kick in... (And yes people will disaggree..So let them.. hehehe)) So taking that into consideration I would say 4-ad is 1/3 as effective /dose as test(absorbed)... 600mg 4-ad/day = 1680mg absorbed / week compared to 500mg test /week...

Thats why I am FRONTLAODING my next 1-test cycle... I will keep you all posted...

Curt that much 4-ad --- could it lead to hairloss? or is that still unlikily?

 

[dg806]

18 squirts.....................takes a lot of body space!!!

 

[rjones]

Wouldn't it only be 6 squirts, using T4, to get 600 mg a day applied.

 

[CEDeoudes59]

bump for curt (or anyone)
large dozes of 4ad (T4) leading to hairloss?
or nothing to worry about?

 

[curt2go]

Yes those are just my thoughts. Maybe it was not good sus or something... I do find 4-ad very effective by itself... I just come up with those number based on what happend to me.. This may not fall true for others.. I have heard of some people on 500mg sus gaining 30lbs... Not me.. Hope that helps a bit more.. Talk to ya....

Yes to get those doses its alot of liquid.. It sucks..

 

[rjones]

Deoudes, I think hairloss is an issue on this type of cycle, that is why I would recomend topical spiro, and nizoral shampoo while on cycle.

 

[CEDeoudes59]

Deoudes, I think hairloss is an issue on this type of cycle, that is why I would recomend topical spiro, and nizoral shampoo while on cycle.

thanks roy -- most people seem to think there virtually no chance of loss from the 4-ad... I guess at high doses the risk increases.

 

[rjones]

I guess at high doses the risk increases.

That is true for about everything I think.