Critique Phera Plex cycle plan for Noob

[rocknroll]

NOOB HERE...Go easy on me...

……looking to take a standalone cycle of Phera Plex.

First time using. THANKS A TON FOR REVIEWING AND THANKS IN ADVANCE TO THOSE WHO HELP!

STATS:
Age 35
Height 5’10
Weight 185
BF: about 13

Here is the cycle plan…pieced it together from various threads. Please look carefully and give feedback and answers.

Pre-Cycle?
Before I begin, is there any reason to preload with Hawthorne and Flax Seed for a few months before a standalone PP cycle?

Cycle
Week 1 PP 10mg
Week 2 PP 20mg
Week 3 PP 20mg
Week 4 PP 30mg

Post Cycle Therapy
Week 5 Nolva 40mg Rebound XT 75mg Retain 3caps
Week 6 Nolva 30mg Rebound XT 50mg Retain 3caps
Week 7 Nolva 20mg Rebound XT 25mg Retain 3caps
Week 8 Rebound XT 25 Retain 2 caps (Is this week really necessary just running Phera Plex for 4 weeks?)

QUESTION: Anyone have PCT advice regarding some threads out there discussing running Rebound XT inversely to the SERM? Thread I read seemed inconclusive.

Supps (Multi-Vitamin Daily)
Week 1 Hawthorn, RYR w/ Co-Q10, Milk Thistle(600mgs x2), Celery Seed, Fish Oil (How much celery seed and fish oil should I take? Does this come in capsule form? Syrup?)
Week 2 Hawthorn, RYR w/ Co-Q10, Milk Thistle(600mgs x2), Celery Seed, Fish Oil
Week 3 Hawthorn, RYR w/ Co-Q10, Milk Thistle(600mgs x2), Celery Seed, Fish Oil
Week 4 Hawthorn, RYR w/ Co-Q10, Milk Thistle(600mgs x2), Celery Seed, Fish Oil
Week 5 Hawthorn, RYR w/ Co-Q10, Milk Thistle, Celery Seed, Fish Oil, CEE, BCAAs, EC (What is CEE and EC?)
Week 6 Hawthorn, RYR w/ Co-Q10, Milk Thistle, Celery Seed, Fish Oil, CEE, BCAAs, EC
Week 7 Hawthorn, RYR w/ Co-Q10, Milk Thistle, Celery Seed, Fish Oil, CEE, BCAAs, EC
Week 8 + CEE, Fish Oil, BCAAs, EC,

OK, I think that’s it…Feedback? Comments? Questions?

MUCH THANKS!

 

[bpmartyr]

Overall it looks good. I would reconsider jumping to 30mgs. If 20 is giving gains, stay there. Yes, run the Nolva and XT inverse tapering up the dose of ATD. You may consider getting some DHEA and fenugreek to run in post cycle therapy as they are very inexpensive yet effective at supporting natural hormone production and libido. If you can afford it, get a bottle of Powerfull from USP Labs and run it with your PCT. I used it in my last cycle and had the best PCT experience to date and that is after a 15 week cycle ending with superdrol. My personal choice is Nolva, DHEA, fenugreek and Powerfull as well as a cortisol control supp (such as retain) and save the ATD for off cycle use for some natural test boosting and drying effect. But that's just me. Link in my sig to my PCT using Powerfull. Used Symmetry as well but after running both standalone I can tell you it was the Powerfull that was doing the magic. Mixed with creatine it is phenominal.

Fish oil is best in caps. Look for EPA/DHA content and shoot for 1-4 grams daily. Most caps are roughly 30% EPA/DHA so thats 3-12 caps ed. The ones I use are 50% so 2-4 caps is good.

CEE is creatine ethyl ester. CE is caffeine and ephedrine. (why do you think you need this?) Take 3 celery seed caps 3x ed.

Don't know why you are taking Flax, the fish oil is all you need. But yes, frontload all the support supps like milk thistle, hawthorne etc.

IMHO

 

[rocknroll]

OK thanks a ton bpmartyr. I will drop the CE. and fish oil. I copied that from someone’s log so that is why it was included. I will also add Powerfull to PCT. Have definitely great things about it.

A few dosing questions:
How much hawthorne and milk thistle should I frontload with and for how long do you recommend I frontload? Also, should I take the same amount of the hawthorne and milk thistle during cycle and for PCT?

Are you saying that you would consider saving my RXT and not take until after PCT?

As a side note…can one take RXT alone and have much of a positive effect? Just curious...

 

[bpmartyr]

I would keep the fish oil and drop the flax personally. You will like the Powerfull.

Frontload the support supps for about 2 weeks and through PCT at the same dosage you take on cycle. 1000mg milk thistle but I am unsure on the hawthorne as I have never needed it. I add ALA at around 600mg ed and NAC at 1.5 grams myself for their liver function support.

I do not use an AI in PCT. Some do, I don't. To each their own.

I am taking an ATD product (which is what RXT is) presently along with DHEA and fenugreek and loving it. Keeping me plenty dry and vascular as well as a little boost in test. Nothing like being on cycle but for being "off" I feel great. FWIW

 

[ndfan]

run milk thistle 1000mg and hawthorne 1500mg ed. run 2-3 weeks before you start. You might want to add vit. B complex

 

[rocknroll]

Gotcha. Thanks a bunch for the guidance. Interesting that you don't use an AI. How would I know if I need it or not? What symptoms would indicate I DO need it?

Another question...

Would it be unhealthy to do more intense/higher end aerobic training or events? I do triathlons occasionally with some buddies but don't want my heart to explode if I take my heart rate up for a few hours doing one of these triathlons while on this cycle. i.e. Should I wait to begin this cycle when the few triathlons I participate in are over?

 

[bpmartyr]

Interesting that you don't use an AI. How would I know if I need it or not? What symptoms would indicate I DO need it?

Again, personal preference but PP does not aromatize into estrogen at the same time shutting down your natural production of testosterone. This will cause your estrogen levels to be lower than normal when entering post cycle therapy. Last thing I want is to crush what estro I have left. This may not be the case after a cycle using something like test that will aromatize and leave you with too much estrogen.

Another question...

Would it be unhealthy to do more intense/higher end aerobic training or events? I do triathlons occasionally with some buddies but don't want my heart to explode if I take my heart rate up for a few hours doing one of these triathlons while on this cycle. i.e. Should I wait to begin this cycle when the few triathlons I participate in are over?

Just need to watch your BP but many of these orals can drain endurance something fierce so you may not have the best experience doing so while on. Stacking with some test or 4AD typically helps quite a bit in this regard. TST may very well be good for that as well but I have no experience with it and user feedback is still quite limited.

 

[rocknroll]

OK... more questions...thanks for your patience.

What should be the dosing for Fenugreek during my PP cycle?

bpmartyr, what is your dosing/recommendation for the DHEA and Fenugreek when you are "off" and running with your ATD?

The milk thistle I got is by Rexall and says it is 1000mg/serving on the front but on the back it says 250mg/derving and then says something about 1 4:1 extract equivalent to 1000mg of MT. Is this OK/what I can use? I didn't compare to other MT products while in the store. I assume they are all the same?

Last one, do you like the RYR w/ Co-Q10 by NOW all combined or would you recommend breaking it down and purchasing RYR, Co-Q10, ALA all separately?

THX!

 

[bpmartyr]

OK... more questions...thanks for your patience.

What should be the dosing for Fenugreek during my PP cycle?

bpmartyr, what is your dosing/recommendation for the DHEA and Fenugreek when you are "off" and running with your ATD?

The milk thistle I got is by Rexall and says it is 1000mg/serving on the front but on the back it says 250mg/derving and then says something about 1 4:1 extract equivalent to 1000mg of MT. Is this OK/what I can use? I didn't compare to other MT products while in the store. I assume they are all the same?

Last one, do you like the RYR w/ Co-Q10 by NOW all combined or would you recommend breaking it down and purchasing RYR, Co-Q10, ALA all separately?

THX!

Fenugreek for post cycle therapy not while "on". Week 1 1.5 grams ed, week 2 2 grams ed, week 3 2.5 grams ed, week 4 3 grams ed. Dosing the same while "off" along with 200mg DHEA split into 2 doses and 50mg ATD dosed before bed. May not be "the" way, but it the way that works for me.

The MT is fine. The NOW RYR/CoQ10 is fine but you may want to add some additional ALA. R-ALA is more potent but I just run higher doses of the plain jane.

 

[romanreid]

sorryi found the answer thanx

 

[fritzer]

Hey RocknRoll. I am on PP day 22 and stayed at 20mg. Regardless of what people have said, the gains do NOT stop coming. You have to fix your diet everytime as you gain, just keep that in mind.

I have gained steadily for three weeks. You could go straight 20mg, but at your weight i would say a 10/20/20/20 is good...

 

[bpmartyr]

I like the idea of no ai but what do u use for post cycle therapy.......I'm currently in day 2 of a 10/20/20/20 pp cycle. I had planned on a nha stack but now I think otherwise... how bout nolva, dhea,fenugreek, tribuliss, activate and lean x? what do u use?

Nolva, DHEA, fenugreek, LX (or 7-OXO, or retain), Powerfull and Activate is my PCT of choice. Toremifene in the stead of Nolva has been recommended to me by very trusted members here but I have yet to try it. NHA stacks are great IMO but not for PCT.

 

[rocknroll]

Hey RocknRoll. I am on PP day 22 and stayed at 20mg. Regardless of what people have said, the gains do NOT stop coming. You have to fix your diet everytime as you gain, just keep that in mind.

I have gained steadily for three weeks. You could go straight 20mg, but at your weight i would say a 10/20/20/20 is good...

fitzer-Sorry to be ignorant :blink: but what do you mean by having to fix my diet everytime as I gain? Increase the calories throughout the cycle?

 

[romanreid]

bp thanks for not blazin me i found the answers in ur sig.. been researchn on here for 2 months still learn my way around :blink:

 

[idunk42]

fitzer-Sorry to be ignorant :blink: but what do you mean by having to fix my diet everytime as I gain? Increase the calories throughout the cycle?

Im not sure if thats what he meant, but thats how I read it. As your overall mass increases, your BMR will increase, meaning that your body will require more calories.

 

[fritzer]

Haha sorry! Ya that is what i meant. In a cycle like mine, you can gain muscle so fast you will get to a point where you stop gaining. For example, i frequently adjust the amount of calories Pt/Carbs/Fat i am eating to continue my gains. I would say that for me every five pounds i need to re-assese my diet.

 

[rocknroll]

Haha sorry! Ya that is what i meant. In a cycle like mine, you can gain muscle so fast you will get to a point where you stop gaining. For example, i frequently adjust the amount of calories Pt/Carbs/Fat i am eating to continue my gains. I would say that for me every five pounds i need to re-assese my diet.

Cool. Thanks fellas for clarifying. Also, I kinda like not needing to go up to 30mg of PP on that 4th week if not necessary as I'm a bit anxious about signs and being able to read my body like so many talk about.

 

[idunk42]

Cool. Thanks fellas for clarifying. Also, I kinda like not needing to go up to 30mg of PP on that 4th week if not necessary as I'm a bit anxious about signs and being able to read my body like so many talk about.

Yeah, you may not need to. If your upping your calories sufficiently and your gains stop, then you might wanna bump it up, but if they keep coming, then there is no need to.

 

[fritzer]

what he said, nuff said

 

[rocknroll]

OK, HERE'S AN UPGRADED PLAN OF MY PHERA PLEX CYCLE - PLEASE GIVE FEEDBACK. ANYTHING I'M MISSING? OVERKILL ON ANYTHING? IS SERM AND AI OK? MUCH THANKS!!!

Pre-cycle – Run support supps for 2-3 weeks prior to cycle.
Pre-cycle for 3 weeks Hawthorn 1500 mg/ed, RYR=1200mg/ed Co-Q10=100mg/ed, Milk Thistle 1000mg/ed or (600mgs x2), Celery Seed 3 caps, Fish Oil 10-14 g/ed, ALA (600mg/ed)

Cycle
Week 1 PP 10mg
Week 2 PP 20mg
Week 3 PP 20mg
Week 4 PP 20mg (up to 30mg if gains stopping)

Post Cycle Therapy
Week 5 Nolva 40mg -- RXT (25mg) -- DHEA 200mg -- Fenugreek 1g -- Retain 3 caps
Week 6 Nolva 30mg -- RXT (50mg) -- DHEA 200mg -- Fenugreek 2g -- Retain 3 caps
Week 7 Nolva 20mg -- RXT (75mg) -- DHEA 100mg -- Fenugreek 3g -- Retain 3caps
Week 8 Fenugreek 4g-- RXT 25mg -- Retain 2 caps

Supps (Multi-Vitamin Daily)
Week 1 Hawthorn 1500 mg/ed, RYR=1200mg/day Co-Q10=100mg/day, Milk Thistle 1000mg/ed or (600mgs x2), Celery Seed 3 caps, Fish Oil 10-14 g/day, ALA (600mg/ed if possible)

Week 2 Hawthorn 1500 mg/ed, RYR=1200mg/day Co-Q10=100mg/day, Milk Thistle 1000mg/ed or (600mgs x2), Celery Seed 3 caps, Fish Oil 10-14 g/day, ALA (600mg/ed if possible)

Week 3 Hawthorn 1500 mg/ed, RYR=1200mg/day Co-Q10=100mg/day, Milk Thistle 1000mg/ed or (600mgs x2), Celery Seed 3 caps, Fish Oil 10-14 g/day 1-4 g, ALA (600mg/ed if possible)

Week 4 Hawthorn 1500 mg/ed, RYR=1200mg/day Co-Q10=100mg/day, Milk Thistle 1000mg/ed or (600mgs x2), Celery Seed 3 caps, Fish Oil 10-14 g/day, ALA (600mg/ed if possible)

Week 5 BEGIN PCT Hawthorn 1500 mg/ed, RYR=1200mg/day Co-Q10=100mg/day, Milk Thistle 1000mg/ed or (600mgs x2), Celery Seed 3 caps, Fish Oil 10-14 g/day, ALA (600mg/ed if possible), CEE, BCAAs

Week 6 Hawthorn 1500 mg/ed, RYR=1200mg/day Co-Q10=100mg/day, Milk Thistle 1000mg/ed or (600mgs x2), Celery Seed 3 caps, Fish Oil 10-14 g/day, ALA (600mg/ed if possible), CEE, BCAAs

Week 7 Hawthorn 1500 mg/ed, RYR=1200mg/day Co-Q10=100mg/day, Milk Thistle 1000mg/ed or (600mgs x2), Celery Seed 3 caps, Fish Oil 800 mg/ED? 1-4 g, ALA (600mg/ed if possible), CEE, BCAAs

Week 8 + CEE, Fish Oil 1-4 g, ALA (600mg/ed if possible), BCAAs

I'm currently running supps to prep for cycle to begin in a week or two...

 

[rocknroll]

Regarding my upgraded cycle above...meant to also ask specifically for advice regarding taking RXT. Seems that many are saying NOT to take. Yeah or neah on the RXT and of course on any other insight...

Much Thanks!

 

[idunk42]

No need to take RXT, IMO. Nolva is sufficient for a PP cycle.