Will Letro hurt my gains while using on a cycle?? - AnabolicMinds.com

Will Letro hurt my gains while using on a cycle??

  1. New Member
    jagg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    22
    Rep Power
    115

    Reputation

    Will Letro hurt my gains while using on a cycle??


    Hi,

    I'm just wondering if using Letro to prevent gyno while on a cycle of Phera Plex will hurt my gains? I'm a little parinoid when it comes to gyno since I have a mild case of puffy nipple syndrome already. If it will drastically take away from getting the gains I want then I'll use it only if/when gyno starts to occur.

    I'm also curious to try to get rid of my puffy nips with letro as stated by someone in another thread;



    ----------------------------------------------------------

    This is from my buddy on a different board he is very smart and deals with helping people with gyno ED!! Hope it helps !!

    To first understand why you are doing what you are doing I am going to go over a few things and a few definitions:

    SERM – Selective estrogen receptor modulator. These drugs work by binding to the estrogen receptors and flooding them in a sense, making it difficult (but not impossible by any means) for estrogen to bind to the receptors and thus prevent the onset of estrogen related side effects.
    Most common forms: Tamoxifen (Nolvadex), Clomiphene (Clomid)
    AI – Aromatise Inhibitor. These drugs work by inhibiting the aromatization of estrogen. This means that in effect AI’s prevent androgens from converting to estrogen, again, making it difficult (but not impossible) for estrogen to reach receptor sites.
    Most common forms: Anastrozole (l-dex, a-dex), Exemestane (aromasin), Femera (letrozole). For our purpose of reversing gyno we are interested in Letro.

    Letro and your sex drive:
    Letrozole will suppress your sex drive. This is another reason why it is so important to act on preventing gyno as soon as possible. Since we all know that Test should be run in every cycle this will cancel out the effect of sex drive suppression.

    Running letro to prevent gyno:
    If you decide to run estrogen protection while on cycle (and I suggest you do unless you are aware that you do not require it), you can run either a SERM or an AI. Letro will be the most powerful AI you can use, it will inhibit 98+% of estrogen using a dose as low as .25mg and even lower. This is why I suggest you do not use a dose higher than .50mg while on cycle just trying to prevent estrogen related side effects.

    You will want to start running the letro approximately 2 weeks before you begin your cycle to allow it to fully stabilize in your blood. I have often heard the argument that letro takes up to 60 days to stabilize, I don’t know if I buy into this for the reason that I have reversed gyno after using letro for only 1 week. Still to be safe I recommend starting it before your cycle as stated above.

    If you do decide to run letro there is absolutely no need to run another AI or SERM. Do not make the mistake of thinking more is better. Think of it this way; if letro is preventing the conversion of androgens to estrogen than there is no estrogen, what would the purpose of a SERM be when there is no estrogen to bind to the receptors? Nolva will only take away from the effectiveness of letro.

    This brings me to my next point. Do not listen to anyone who tells you to bump up your nolvadex to 60+mg ED if you get gyno. I have no idea where this idea started but I have seen it suggest far too many times recently. Nolvadex will do nothing to reverse your gyno…let me make that clear IT WILL DO NOTHING FOR GYNO. If you are running nolva as your anti-e and start to develop gyno than sure you can bump the dosage a small amount to try to prevent it from progressing further, but letrozole must begin ASAP.

    It is very important that you begin taking letrozole immediately, the longer your wait the more risk you take in not being able to reverse it.

    How do I know if I have gyno?
    If you have developed gyno you will have a lump behind your nipple. It will be fairly hard, and it will be tender to touch.

    Running letro to reverse gyno:
    I am going to go over the three different scenarios which people could fit into. Remember regardless of what scenario you are in it is important that you begin taking the letro ASAP.

    1. Already using an anti-e aside from letro.
    2. Already using letro @ a dose of .25mg or .50mg ED.
    3. Not running any estrogen protection.

    1.
    Day 1: .25mg Letro + anti-e*
    Day 2: .50mg Letro
    Day 3: 1.0mg Letro
    Day 4: 1.5mg Letro
    Day 5: 2.0mg Letro
    Day 6: 2.5mg Letro **

    2.
    Day 1: .50mg Letro
    Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
    Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
    Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
    Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

    3.
    Day 1: .50mg Letro
    Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
    Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
    Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
    Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

    *Regardless of the anti-e you are using it is important to still use it for the first day you begin letro as the letro will not have taken any effect and you by no means want your body to be without any protection when gyno is already prevalent.

    ** You will remain at this dose until gyno symptoms subside. Once you believe your gyno is gone it is important to stay at this dose for another 4-7 days to ensure all traces are gone. I recommend people with a bf% over 15 stay on for a week as it may be harder to judge completely whether the lump is completely gone. Once this period is over it will be important to taper letro down slowly rather than coming off it completely. Regardless of which manner you tapered up your dose you will all taper down in the same fashion.

    Day 1: 2.0mg
    Day 2: 1.5mg
    Day 3: 1.0mg
    Day 4: .50mg***
    Day 5: .25mg
    ***You can remain at this dose or go down further to .25mg. It is really up to you at this point. They are both very common maintenance doses as an anti-e while on cycle. Personally I have stayed with .25mg and never had a problem.

    Letro and the estrogen rebound:
    With your estrogen being completely inhibited there is a definite estrogen rebound as your body tries to re-stabilize the testosterone:estrogen balance. We can prevent this rebound effect by supplementing further with another AI or SERM. So, I suggest that when you are coming to the end of your cycle you will more than likely be using Nolva in your post cycle therapy so just make sure that you begin taking nolva the last day you are going to take your letro and then continue on as you would with regular PCT.

    This now leads us into the question of reversing gyno while not on cycle. There are a few things to remember here. You have already waited longer than you should have, and your sex drive will be shot. You can use tribulus or another natural test booster to help you in this scenario but I can’t guarantee the effectiveness. Just follow gyno reversal protocols 2 or 3. When coming off again you must taper and begin using nolvadex to prevent any rebound effect that may occur.

    How much nolvadex should you use if you are not going into post cycle therapy and running this off cycle? I suggest starting at 20mg ED for a week and then lowering it to 10mg for another week and then coming off completely.

    --------------------------------------

    Could this work?? I have Letro and Nolvadex on hand. Could this help in getting rid of pre existing puffy nipples? Thanks.

  2. Advanced Member
    mercedesdd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    729
    Rep Power
    467

    Reputation

    Letro may reduce muscle gains on cycle via blocking estrogen formation (estrogen is somewhat anabolic) but it should not matter when you look at the sides you can get from excess estrogen while on cycle.
  3. New Member
    jagg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    22
    Rep Power
    115

    Reputation

    Thanks Mercedesdd.

    Do you think following the instructions you posted above will help my chances at reducing pre existing puffyiness? What I plan to do is run a Phera Plex cycle while using Letro and then followed by Nolva as PCT. I'm trying to do a one, two combo. Gain some lean muscle while trying to reduce some pre existing puffyiness. Thanks.
    •   
       

  4. Advanced Member
    mercedesdd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    729
    Rep Power
    467

    Reputation

    I know some people that use it while on cycle .. Heres a quote from the gyno reversal protocal I posted about while on cycle..

    Letro and the estrogen rebound:
    With your estrogen being completely inhibited there is a definite estrogen rebound as your body tries to re-stabilize the testosterone:estrogen balance. We can prevent this rebound effect by supplementing further with another AI or SERM. So, I suggest that when you are coming to the end of your cycle you will more than likely be using Nolva in your post cycle therapy so just make sure that you begin taking nolva the last day you are going to take your letro and then continue on as you would with regular post cycle therapy..

    So its up to you man!! Hope this helps!!!
  5. Advanced Member
    mercedesdd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    729
    Rep Power
    467

    Reputation

    Oh , you might want to run more than just nolva for your pct.. Heres a link to the PCT I advise .. But again in the end it is up to you to chose what you think is best!! Just do your research !!! Good luck with your cycle and your attempt at gyno reversal!!!! Heres the link
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/anabo...-sustanon.html
  6. Registered User
    CHAPS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Age
    28
    Posts
    4,380
    Rep Power
    2867

    Reputation

    It boosts IGF-1 levels 25% and is good for bloat but ya it can kill your sex drive awfully fast. For dealing with gyno i think Nolvadex is a better choice.
  7. Advanced Member
    mercedesdd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    729
    Rep Power
    467

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by CHAPS
    It boosts IGF-1 levels 25% and is good for bloat but ya it can kill your sex drive awfully fast. For dealing with gyno i think Nolvadex is a better choice.
    Do you mean a better choice to help prevent gyno or reverse it?
  8. Registered User
    CHAPS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Age
    28
    Posts
    4,380
    Rep Power
    2867

    Reputation

    Well i used Letro while on 750mg Test E and it i was using 2.5mg e3d and i still got puffy nipples, but when i used 60mg of Nolvadex it was gone within days. BUT i did have a little pre-existing progestin induced gyno from M1t so it's possible that the test just aggrevated it. But ya on 2.5mg even every 3rd day my sex drive seemed below normal. I really think it's almost too powerful, like Arimidex may be a better choice it's still powerful just not AS powerful as Femara. Just my 2 cents. I think from now on i'll be using Proviron while on cycle and just keep Nolvadex handy.
  9. Advanced Member
    mercedesdd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    729
    Rep Power
    467

    Reputation

    Very high dose thats why!! Letro dose should have been like .25 mg ED or EOD !!!
  10. Registered User
    CHAPS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Age
    28
    Posts
    4,380
    Rep Power
    2867

    Reputation

    Ya I realized that and cut back to .5ml so 1.25mg e3d and that was a good dose for me. But still even at that high dose it should have stopped the puffiness.
  11. Advanced Member
    MuscleBound1337's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  210 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    928
    Rep Power
    572

    Reputation

    Hey mercedesdd you helped me in another thread where I asked for help with a gyno reducing cycle. How high should I go with letro? You have it go all the way up to 2.5 mg.. I thought a lot less works just as well as that much, could I just start it at .25, and maybe up it to .50 after a couple weeks.. Will I see a difference if I take more than .50mg a day?
  12. Advanced Member
    mercedesdd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    729
    Rep Power
    467

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by CHAPS
    Ya I realized that and cut back to .5ml so 1.25mg e3d and that was a good dose for me. But still even at that high dose it should have stopped the puffiness.
    Letro should be used ED or EOD due to the active life I think E3D is a bit to much . I dunno that could be the problem!!! If you read the post above with the gyno reversal protocol it calls for a taper up to 2.5 mg letro ED until gyno lumps are gone...
  13. King Kong
    idunk42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Age
    33
    Posts
    2,348
    Rep Power
    1287

    Reputation

    A good dose for the letro is .25mg-.5mg ed or eod. You might see a difference, but in my experience I have never had to go higher than .5mg a day.
  14. Registered User
    CHAPS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Age
    28
    Posts
    4,380
    Rep Power
    2867

    Reputation

    Femara has a half-life of 2-4 days so i figured i'd be fine with dosing e3d. And my bad i didn't read through the full article, i was just stating my own experience with the drug and gyno prevention.
  15. Advanced Member
    mercedesdd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    729
    Rep Power
    467

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by leetuser
    Hey mercedesdd you helped me in another thread where I asked for help with a gyno reducing cycle. How high should I go with letro? You have it go all the way up to 2.5 mg.. I thought a lot less works just as well as that much, could I just start it at .25, and maybe up it to .50 after a couple weeks.. Will I see a difference if I take more than .50mg a day?
    Hey man!! I would follow the protocol posted in the reversal post.. You will need a higher dose for gyno reversal than as opposed to using it as an AI while on cycle.. Remember most gyno has to be removed by surgery so it is hard to get rid of it any other way. I have seen and heard alot of success with the gyno reversal protocol . I mean I think its worth a shot since surgery is like $ 3000-4000 to have it removed. Again it does not always work but it is the best method I have seen so far!! Hope this helps!!
  16. Advanced Member
    mercedesdd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    729
    Rep Power
    467

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by idunk42
    A good dose for the letro is .25mg-.5mg ed or eod. You might see a difference, but in my experience I have never had to go higher than .5mg a day.
    For an attempt for gyno reversal or to control estrogen?? I argee that a dose of .25 mg ED or EOD will suffice for estrogen reduction on a cycle. But gyno reversal is a different matter...
  17. New Member
    jagg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    22
    Rep Power
    115

    Reputation

    Ack now I have a headache.

    Ok, I was planning to go on a cycle of Phera Plex and I want to gain some muscle and also try to kill some puffyiness around my nipples. This is what I have stocked up;

    -Phera Plex
    -Perfect Cycle
    -Letro
    -Nolvadex
    -Rebound XT
    -CoQ10 + Hawthorn Berry
    -Saw Palmetto Berries
    -Fish Oil
    -Animal Pak

    How should I use it? I want to prevent gyno and try to kill some pre-existing.


    Mercedesdd: You don't think Nolva is good by itself as PCT. What else should be used with it??

    Ack, now people are saying Litro didn't work for some to combat gyno. What should a guy do???!??!?
  18. Registered User
    CHAPS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Age
    28
    Posts
    4,380
    Rep Power
    2867

    Reputation

    I honestly think it was because of some pre-existing puffiness from M1t. I wouldn't worry if so alot of ppl have had success with it. Dr D's PCT is what i used on my last cycle and really liked it where you start off running high doses of Nolvadex then that gets tapered down over the weeks and you run ATD in the opposite fashion ramping it up as the Nolvadex gets lower. Also some Retain or Lean Extreme for cortisol suppression would be ideal.
  19. New Member
    jagg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    22
    Rep Power
    115

    Reputation

    Thanks Chaps, I'll pickup some retain.


    I think I'm gonna do my cycle like this,

    On Cycle
    -Phera Plex
    -Litro
    -Perfext Cycle
    -CoQ10 + Hawthorn Berrys
    -Saw Palmetto Berries

    Post Cycle
    Nolvadex
    Retain
    **Rebount XT ???

    ** Do you think it's nessecary to use the RXT? Can I get away with not using it? Or is that unadvisable? Thanks
  20. Registered User
    CHAPS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Age
    28
    Posts
    4,380
    Rep Power
    2867

    Reputation

    I'd use the Rebound, it's after all just ATD i believe, so run it the way that DR D advises.
  21. Advanced Member
    mercedesdd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    729
    Rep Power
    467

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by jagg
    Ack now I have a headache.

    Ok, I was planning to go on a cycle of Phera Plex and I want to gain some muscle and also try to kill some puffyiness around my nipples. This is what I have stocked up;

    -Phera Plex
    -Perfect Cycle
    -Letro
    -Nolvadex
    -Rebound XT
    -CoQ10 + Hawthorn Berry
    -Saw Palmetto Berries
    -Fish Oil
    -Animal Pak

    How should I use it? I want to prevent gyno and try to kill some pre-existing.


    Mercedesdd: You don't think Nolva is good by itself as post cycle therapy. What else should be used with it??

    Ack, now people are saying Litro didn't work for some to combat gyno. What should a guy do???!??!?
    HAHA man , Ya it is easy to get a headache on here LOL. There is no sure fire way to get rid of gyno unless you have surgery. The gyno reversal protocol I posted is an attempt to lessen or reverse it... Nolva only is not a proper PCT protocol in my opinion. There are many different ways for a proper protocol. The one I advise helps you recover the quickest and lose the least amount of gains in my opinion. I posted this link for you before here it is again. This has the pct I advise in it.. http://anabolicminds.com/forum/anabo...-sustanon.html You can do your research and decide for yourself what would be the best for you as in the end it is up to you to pick one.....
  22. New Member
    jagg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    22
    Rep Power
    115

    Reputation

    DR D. Sorry I'm lazy. Do you have the link to Dr.D's pct thread? I can't seem to find it. Thanks.
  23. Registered User
    CHAPS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Age
    28
    Posts
    4,380
    Rep Power
    2867

    Reputation

    It's just what i said, so it'dbelike this


    Week 1 60mg Nolvadex 25mg ATD 3 caps Retain
    Week 2 40mg Nolvadex 50mg ATD 3 caps Retain
    Week 3 40mg Nolvadex 50mg ATD 3 caps Retain
    Week 4 20mg Nolvadex 75mg ATD 3 caps Retain

    Then feel free to add tribulus, fenugreek, maca, creatine whatever u want to the above.
  24. New Member
    jagg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    22
    Rep Power
    115

    Reputation

    Thanks everyone!

    What the hell happened to just lifting weights and getting fuc*in huge???? It's a god damn science now a days But it's always better to be safe then sorry.
  25. Registered User
    CHAPS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Age
    28
    Posts
    4,380
    Rep Power
    2867

    Reputation

    Your right it's chemical warfare of the body! lol
  26. Advanced Member
    mercedesdd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    729
    Rep Power
    467

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by CHAPS
    Your right it's chemical warfare of the body! lol
    Gotta love science !! You have to understand how the body works and how different compounds work. I am mean your going to be adding a chemical in your body I would suggest researching and finding out what exactly it is and what is will do. These compounds are strong and are not a game by any means. If you choose wrong you can end up on HRT for the rest of your life. Sure its all fun and games now but when you have to give your self weekly injections for the rest of your life just to feel normal you will regret not spending some time researching . Cant be lazy if your going to use roids. If your lazy and dont want to research how are you going to stick to you training and diet program? Well good luck and keep us posted on your progress!!
  27. New Member
    jagg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    22
    Rep Power
    115

    Reputation

    Chaps: Question.... you posted at week 4 of PCT that ATD would be at 75mg. Then at week 5 just stop all of a sudden? You're done?? Will that cause a rebound effect? Explain. Thanks.
  28. Registered User
    CHAPS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Age
    28
    Posts
    4,380
    Rep Power
    2867

    Reputation

    I believe that's what Dr D's pct called for but i personal stayed on just the atd another 4 weeks and tapered it down so i'd do it that way. We still don't know just how potent ATD is so better be safe then sorry.
  29. New Member
    jagg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    22
    Rep Power
    115

    Reputation

    Ha, great! I'm going to be bald at the end of my P C T
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Should I start my TITANIUM while still "on" ???
    By 808rebel in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 08-29-2011, 07:07 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-30-2011, 10:36 PM
  3. Best AI to use on this cycle
    By mercedesdd in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 06-02-2006, 09:33 PM
  4. I need some advice on my routine while using AAS
    By ali11atc in forum Exercise Science
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-18-2005, 02:15 PM
  5. what dosages should i use on this cycle
    By Zack in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-04-2003, 07:06 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in