test E or sustanon
- 05-08-2006, 02:43 PM
test E or sustanon
I am going to start my first cycle and was wanting some suggestions. I have done some research and I am undecided on which one to start with. Some people say the sustanon and others say the test E. I will have all the pct training covered from the information I have gotten off of the board. Just need some input for the cycle.
- 05-08-2006, 02:53 PM
Originally Posted by insane lifter
05-08-2006, 03:05 PM
I am going to use nolva,retain, pct and perfect cycle by AX, and rebound x. Those are some of things I plan to use, I am still searching to make sure I get everything I need. I did read a post about using HGH or HGC post cycle, But I dont know much about it.
05-08-2006, 03:08 PM
05-08-2006, 03:12 PM
You can use what you quoted if you pefer. The best pct is using HCG, aromasin , nolva and vit E. It goes like this!!
Week Nolvadex HCG Aromasin Vitamin E
1 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
2 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
3 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
4 20mgs/day 20-25mgs/day
5 20mgs/day 20-25mgs/day
You can start it one week after your last injection of test E!!!!
05-08-2006, 03:14 PM
Actually, HCG is not the best thing to use during PCT. Its usually used during cycle.Originally Posted by mercedesdd
05-08-2006, 03:21 PM
I would agree in the past !!! Anthony roberts ( hookers ) PCT protocal ... Here is a link long but great read!! I have used this PCT with blood work and recovered quickly!!!Originally Posted by idunk42
05-08-2006, 03:22 PM
I have the perfect cycle for liver support, because I thought of doing an oral cycle, but I think I may go the other route, it seems that alot of people say the orals are a lot harder on you. As for the other stuff, I have not bought it yet. I am assuming that the hgh is injectable and do I need to add it to my pct.
05-08-2006, 03:25 PM
Yeah, I have actually read through that before. I think it was Ubi who made a valid point that I totally agree with and that is that HCG is suppressive during post cycle. Also, hcg, is just a mimicker of the LH, and not true LH. In this case, it wouldnt help the axis return normally. I dont understand it completely, but I have had great success with running HCG 2x a week at only 250IU's per injection, starting at around week 5 or so and running it until I start PCT.
05-08-2006, 03:26 PM
Its HCG ( HGH is human growth hormone) You inject hcg into sub Q fat with a slin pin... The above post is by far the best PCT protocal . Anthony roberts is the guy who wrote the anabolic steriods ultimate research guide vol 1.Originally Posted by insane lifter
05-08-2006, 03:26 PM
05-08-2006, 03:32 PM
So have you tried this before?? Just because he states that its the best PCT protocal, doesnt make it the best. Im not sayin that it doesnt work for him, or if it in fact is the best protocal. Im just saying dont say its the best, because when it comes to this stuff, there's no such thing as the "best" protocal, especially for each individual person.Originally Posted by mercedesdd
05-08-2006, 03:37 PM
Hcg can be suppresive but at a dose of 500iu ED it should not be a concern and the aromasin/nolva will alleviate estrogen symtoms form the HCG( hrt docs use HCG at 1000mg ED for like 10 days ). The nolva with also help with LH ( to help send a single from the pituitary gland ). I used to use HCG in my cycles as well . During long cycles also using your aforementioned hcg protocal I liked it .. Well everyone has a diffrent way to use HCG .. I know that hookers PCT works great in recovery for me!! But what ever works for you is best!!!Originally Posted by idunk42
05-08-2006, 03:39 PM
Ok, I understand fully what your saying. Im just trying to learn as much as possible. Thats whats crazy about all this stuff, is that were are continually learning new stuff everyday, and discovering new concepts that work better for some. Thanks for the info though.
05-08-2006, 03:47 PM
Right on bro!! Learning and researching it whats it all about!!! I am following your fragment log very intrested .... Good log man!!Originally Posted by idunk42
05-08-2006, 04:22 PM
DO NOT USE HCG POST CYCLE .. it IS suppressive .. i don't agree with MOST of what anthony roberts said
hcg is best used at 250-500iu 2x a week for 500-1000iu per week during cycle ... its tried and true and recommend by an actual HRT specialist, SWALE
05-08-2006, 04:27 PM
To each his own!!!! Whatever works best for you is what you have to go with !!!Originally Posted by glenihan
05-08-2006, 04:47 PM
this is not the proper advice for HCG .. i'm sorry but it IS suppressive and should not be used during HCG .. ask a knowledgable HRT doctorOriginally Posted by mercedesdd
05-08-2006, 05:07 PM
As I said before everyone uses HCG in diffrent ways . I am not trying to argue with you man!!! Here is some info on HCG used in PCT. It stated that in the physicians desk reference that the dose is 500iu per day !!! I know plenty of HRT / Endos that advise HGC for 10 days at 1000 iu per day.. Do you have any studies that show it is supressive at the 500iu dose without nolva or aromasin used in conjuction with it?? Again not trying to argue this is a learning fourm!!! Heres the info on PCT and HCG
As regards HCG's use of Post-Cycle-Therapy (PCT), smaller and more frequent doses after a cycle of AAS would give the best results with the least amount of side effects. A dose of 250iu to 500iu everyday (ed) for 2 to 3 weeks is plenty and should very little from person to person (3). The Physicians Desk Reference recommends 500iu/day, as did the late, great, Dan Duchaine. The smaller doses are sufficient enough to begin reversal of testicular atrophy and used in conjunction with nolvade, will help the already present problem of recovery without raising the levels of estrogen to high and increasing the risk of gynecomastia in the user. Lower doses of 250iu to 500iu also avoid the further risk of down regulating LH receptors in the testes. The old saying more is better definitely does not apply to the use of HCG. You don’t want to finish PCT after using too much HCG only to find out your back at the beginning again. Your best bet is to start at 250iu or 500iu ed for 5 or 6 days, and if you don’t notice anything happening (nuts dropping and getting bigger) up the dose slightly. Small doses like 500iu two days a week isn’t going to cut it like some people think. The only thing small doses of HCG ay be useful (sublingually)for is reducing symptoms of benign prostatic hyperplasia (7). Yeah, thats right, you can probably reduce some symptoms of an enlarged prostate with the use of small doses of HCG.
05-08-2006, 06:52 PM
Oh one more thing.. I do agree hcg can be suppressive but the nolva blocks the supprissive nature of HCG when they are run concurrently.. Also any of the suppression from the estrogen engendered by the HCG is going to be halted by the aromasin.. Here is some more info from the pct by hooker!!!
But are we still risking some inhibition and possibly delaying our recovery by using HCG? Probably not…you see, some studies in humans have shown that HCG does not actually have a direct effect on inhibiting LH release in men (22)(23), but rather (probably) works to inhibit LH secretion indirectly, simply by stimulating the production of testosterone (thus activating the negative feedback loop). Another factor involved is the induction of testicular aromatase, which raises estrogen levels, again causing inhibition. Unfortunately, yet another process, the downregulation of the Leydig Cell LH receptor itself, seems to also play a role in high dose HCG testicular desensitization. This is also done by HCG actually blocking the conversion of 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone (17 OHP) to testosterone (24). Nolvadex actually stops this blocking-action of HCG from taking place (25). Most likely, because of Nolvadex’s direct antiestrogenic effect and LH-upregulating effect on the Pituitary, suppression of gonadotropins via HCG is (25) almost totally stopped with concurrent administration of Nolvadex! So if we Use Nolvadex and we are only using HCG when we are low in gonadatropins, we won’t be inhibited by it at all! Right?
05-08-2006, 06:57 PM
The rest can be read in the link in my above post ( think it is in post number 7 above) ... So yes the hcg could be suppressive but the nolva and aromasin will take care of that!!!
05-08-2006, 07:04 PM
Dont be sorry !! lol !! Well hcg CAN be used as an effective compound in pct when used in conjuction with nolva and aromasin !!!!Originally Posted by glenihan
05-08-2006, 07:16 PM
05-08-2006, 10:25 PM
Bump one more time!! what do you guys think ?? Test E or sust??? What do you think would be better for this bro ??
05-09-2006, 01:20 AM
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