My cycle! need feedback for weeks 4-10!!!

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    My cycle! need feedback for weeks 4-10!!!


    Ok im 23 6'2 220 lbs i started this cycle at 199 and am just finishing week 4 tomorrow. i got some great size on me now but i want a harder leaner NO BLOAT cut up look. i also have some BF to lose (est 13% bf?) i def want mroe size also though
    im leaning towards running winny and tren weeks 4-10 in 4 week intervals however im also thinking about some t3 during that so i can drop BF without muscle loss and even still gaining muscle. this is how my cycle is planned out so far PLEASE EDIT IT TO HELP ME WITH THESE GOALS!!!!

    Week 1 PP 30 mg/ Test E 500mg
    Week 2 PP 30 mg/ Test E 500mg
    Week 3 PP 30 mg/ Test E 500mg/Letrazole .1 ml
    Week 4 PP 30 mg/ Test E 500mg/Letrazole .1 ml
    Week 5 WInstrol 50mg ED/ Test E 500mg/Letrazole .1 ml/
    Week 6 WInstrol 50mg ED/ Test E 500mg/Letrazole .1 ml/
    Week 7 WInstrol 50mg ED/ Test E 500mg/Letrazole .1 ml/tren ace 50mg EOD/
    Week 8 WInstrol 50mg ED/ Test E 500mg/Letrazole .1 ml/tren ace 50mg EOD/
    Week 9 / Test E 500mg/Letrazole .1 ml/tren ace 50mg EOD
    Week 10 / Test E 500mg/Nolva 10mg /tren ace 50mg EOD


    PCT
    Week 11: nolva 40mg, retain 3 caps, ephedra 2x day
    week 12: nolva 40mg, retain 3 caps, ephedra 2x day HCG
    Week 13: nolva 40mg, retain 2 caps, ephedra 2x day, T3 HCG
    week 14: nolva 30mg, retain 2 caps, ephedra 2x day, T3 HCG
    week 15: Nolva 20mg, 6oxo 500mg, retain 1 caps, Albuterol T3
    week 16: nolva 20mg, 6oxo 400mg, retain 1 cap, Albuterol T3
    week 17: 6oxo 300mg, Activate 4 caps, Albuterol, T3
    Week 18: 6oxo 300mg, Activate 4 caps, AMP! T3
    Week 19: 6oxo 300mg, Activate 3 caps, AMP!
    week 20: 6oxo 200mg, Activate 3 caps, AMP!


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    why are you doing HCG during PCT?? it is suppressive to endogenous test production.

    not meant as a flame, but i am TIRED of guys trying to make one cycle do everything and transform them from what they are to what they want to be in 10 weeks....you put 20lbs on with PP in 4 weeks (at least 5 are water, with the test e in there) and now you're gonna diet down? it's a recipe for losing all the gains you made. not to mention the T3. have you ever run T3 before???

    this is just an observation, but it looks like you are relying on the DRUGS to get you to your goals, without much concern for calories and carbs (if they were that important, you'd have mentioned them by now...ie when during that cycle you plan to drop carbs to obtain the "cut up look")

    and you apparently cannot discern the difference betwen bloat and fat....once you come off the current cycle you will drop that water.

    run your (presumably) bulking cycle with the steroids, then do PCT, then cut (with DIET and maybe stimulants)...some guys can cut during PCT but you'll need clen and/or IGF, IMO. for the majority of us, calorie deficit during PCT will cause loss of gains.

    is this your first cycle? at 6'2" and 199lbs before the cycle i am guessing it is. if so, it will be the best cycle you'll ever do...enjoy the fresh receptors and the gains that come from being below your natural limit - it wont always be as easy to gain LBM.

    oh and expect your HDL to be horrible (<20) after this cycle. both PP and winny destroy it....but it does come back up if you stay clean.

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    I don't know why I'm telling you this, as I'm 100% natural and don't know anything about AAS.

    I wouldn't run Winny directly after your bout of PP... but that's just me, 100% natural Ubi talking.

    I would not run Tren Ace for 4 weeks during the end.. 4 weeks is on the LOW end of efficacious duration for Tren. (notice how I word that like I know what I'm saying). In addition, using Tren near the end of the cycle, no matter what duration used, will provide you with a tough little time recovering. Tren is a derivative of Nandrolone, and both are notorious for recovery issues.

    Tren is not a wise addition to a first cycle.. nor is the choice of using orals back to back.. but it's been done, so go with your heart. I am assuming this is your first for the same reason Same_old pointed out.

    Same_old pretty much said everything I wanted to say... if I knew anything about AAS that is.

    I have one HUGE point to make, take it for what it's worth.

    Running T3 during PCT is just BEGGING for you to lose your gains. If you MUST run T3, you run it during the cycle.. and the taper should hold the lion's share of the run to prevent recovery/rebound issues.

    Wow I don't even know where those opinions came from..as I have never touched the devil's juice.

    DIET!!!

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    Wow there are so many things I don't like about that cycle I don't know where to start. UBI and Sameold make great points. I agree with sameold when it comes to guys trying to get it all done in one ten week cycle. Not going to happen. And you most definately do not want to run thyroid or hcg during pct. Hcg for the last two weeks of cycle and the two before pct would be a much better option.

    Do yourself a favor and cut the winny out. Not only are you running two orals back to back but test alone brings collagen synthesis to a screeching halt and winny is known to weaken joints as well. Then further you plan on adding a strength increasing compound like tren while still using letro to dry your joints even more. God that is just a recipe for disaster on the joints.

    Edit: another good idea would be to extend your cycle another 2 weeks. 12 weeks of test e and 6 weeks tren would be better.

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    also, do yourself a favor and cut the PP out, no need for that in there

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    Quote Originally Posted by max-rot98
    Wow there are so many things I don't like about that cycle I don't know where to start. UBI and Sameold make great points. I agree with sameold when it comes to guys trying to get it all done in one ten week cycle. Not going to happen. And you most definately do not want to run thyroid or hcg during post cycle therapy. Hcg for the last two weeks of cycle and the two before post cycle therapy would be a much better option.

    Do yourself a favor and cut the winny out. Not only are you running two orals back to back but test alone brings collagen synthesis to a screeching halt and winny is known to weaken joints as well. Then further you plan on adding a strength increasing compound like tren while still using letro to dry your joints even more. God that is just a recipe for disaster on the joints.

    Edit: another good idea would be to extend your cycle another 2 weeks. 12 weeks of test e and 6 weeks tren would be better.
    1st off id liekt o say thanks for all the replies and Ubi u cracked me up lol. sorry for not mentioning diet!!!

    i will cut out hcg and t3 they were more or less just ideas in my cycle.
    this is a recomp cycle not a bulk/cut cycle i will explain in a minute.



    right now im getting between 3-5000 calories a day and i also do some cardio. i take CLA and sesamin all year long to help with the healthy lipid profiles im also taking 4x capsules of cissus daily and i am considering running alfutrop(if i spelled it right?) during pct for joints. the tendent and joint problem associated with winny + tren i know about and frankly scares the hell out of me. however my main concern with any cycle is my overall health not side effects. this cycle was meant for weeks 1-4 ish to be a super bulk and weeks 6-10 to be more of a cutting cycle. during the time i am on winny i will be doing cardio 2x a day (pref boxing or jumprope) im also trying to build my endurance. at 220 pounds im looking pretty thick right now and am hoping to maintain a 210-215 range with a lower BF (which is where winy and tren come in)

    the t3 was something i was considering ON the cycle to help me cut but i own clen. alb, and ephedra so i guess there really isnt a point to screwing up thryoid yet?

    i appreciate all bashes/constructive crticism on this cycle and really do thank you for helping out so far.

    also i am running tren at a lwoer dose to access my tolerance to it and im not known to ever be a rage filled or angry person ( im very mellow) im also very incontrol and have little stress on me at this point in my life which is why i wood want to run a tren now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
    .

    I wouldn't run Winny directly after your bout of PP... but that's just me, 100% natural Ubi talking.

    I would not run Tren Ace for 4 weeks during the end.. 4 weeks is on the LOW end of efficacious duration for Tren. (notice how I word that like I know what I'm saying).

    DIET!!!
    theyre both methyls which is pretty scary ... i will be taking 4-5 liver regen detox pills from NOW a day (which prob wont do anything) but i will also be taking 2 weeks off in between the last pp dose and 1st winny dose, its liver harsh but its not extremely toxic (comparable to running SD after PP) i know what sides to look for with liver toxicity.

    alsoi i will be testing my blood pressure at cvs once a week

    any more pointers/ideas will really help


    and hwo come people dont like running bulking and cutting products together? its not like your natural anymore where recomp is 100% hell and near impossible to accomplish perfectly. tren winny and test work different ways, to my knowledge my bloat will be minimized and i will gain more fast twitch muscle/endurance which will help me cut more fat while still gaining muscle ( even if the amount of muscle is lessened)

    that last paragraph i wrote i pulled out of my @$$ and could be 100% wrong which is hopefully why i got you guys to straighten me out... im not a novice to AAS and have been researching for awhile, however i havent seen a great log with these 3 chemicals in a while and would like to test it out for you all =]

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    3-5000 Is a pretty big gap. If your diet in check as far as keeping all your macros in order? Before kicking any of that off, I would make sure that is dialed in as much as possible to make your gains as big and lean as you can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawkk
    3-5000 Is a pretty big gap. If your diet in check as far as keeping all your macros in order? Before kicking any of that off, I would make sure that is dialed in as much as possible to make your gains as big and lean as you can.
    I believe that to get big you gotta eat big (durrrrr) i also do some cardio and work out 1-2x a day ( i work at a gym if iw ork out 2x a day one is cardio or a smaller bodypart like abs , calves, arms)
    i lean bulk with big food and hard workouts so that i dont store all that i eat.
    i dont have my macros listed as i do like varying calories so my body doesnt get used to anything (i do alot of carb/fat cycling in which once or twice a week i will eat a few cheat meals and other times in the week its weighted more towards protein)
    on avg my diet is around 42% protein 38% carbs 20% fat

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    Anyone else got some more ideas for me? =]
    you all think t3 weeks 5-10 is a no go? FYI im not starting pct till week 11 because the test e will still be in my system anyway

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    hehe, I meant jumping around 2 thousand calories seemed like a big gap. Not that it was too much :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawkk
    hehe, I meant jumping around 2 thousand calories seemed like a big gap. Not that it was too much :P
    lol i no wut u meant =] i was just typing for the fun of it =]

    whats your idea on the t3? i want a low BF and i got some nice size on me right now i really feel like i CAN make this a all in one cycle

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    i would have stayed away from letro and went with adex personally, letro will mess your lipids up pretty bad. plus its hard to change the doses with letro since they are so small.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NickyNoNames
    also, do yourself a favor and cut the PP out, no need for that in there
    too late he is in week 4 already.

    i dont think it was a BAD idea, just not necessarily needed. i do think the dosing for PP was off however, a lot.

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    I personally have seen results from a M1T stack with 50mcg of T-3. However, after several toxic mistakes from my own ignorance I try not to give stacking and anabolic supp advice :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pioneer
    too late he is in week 4 already.

    i dont think it was a BAD idea, just not necessarily needed. i do think the dosing for PP was off however, a lot.
    it was pheramax from generic labs 15 mg pills... whats off?

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    how old are you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawkk
    I personally have seen results from a M1T stack with 50mcg of T-3. However, after several toxic mistakes from my own ignorance I try not to give stacking and anabolic supp advice :P
    lmao thats scary
    yea t3 is good with it! how quick did your thryoid recover after the t3? did u gain any of the bf back right away?

    im 23 it says 1st post

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    Anyone else here think i should drop HCG and add clomid? WHICH PCT SHOULD I DO? THE ONE UP THEIR OR THIS ONE? Week 1: Clomid 100mg, nolva 40mg, retain 3 caps, ephedra 2x day
    week 2: Clomid 100mg, nolva 40mg, retain 3 caps, ephedra 2x day
    Week 3: Clomid 75mg, nolva 40mg, retain 2 caps, ephedra 2x day,
    week 4: Clomid 50mg, nolva 30mg, retain 2 caps, ephedra 2x day,
    week 5: nolva 20mg, 6oxo 500mg, retain 1 caps, Albuterol,
    week 6: nolva 20mg, 6oxo 400mg, retain 1 cap, , Albuterol
    week 7: 6oxo 300mg, Activate 4 caps, Albuterol
    Week 8: 6oxo 300mg, Activate 4 caps, AMP!
    Week 9: 6oxo 300mg, Activate 3 caps, AMP!
    week 10: 6oxo 200mg, Activate 3 caps, AMP!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hameronkid
    it was pheramax from generic labs 15 mg pills... whats off?
    ok
    1. its not PP, its ErgoMax you took, they are similar yes, but you should know what youre taking.
    2. if it was your first time you should have worked with 15mg to start with and see how it went.
    3. the doses are different, nothing you could do about that, but i think you should have went with the same product in 10mg caps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hameronkid
    lmao thats scary
    yea t3 is good with it! how quick did your thryoid recover after the t3? did u gain any of the bf back right away?

    im 23 it says 1st post
    my bad, didn't see it, lot of numbers floating around in there, just trying to make sense of this whole thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pioneer
    ok
    1. its not PP, its ErgoMax you took, they are similar yes, but you should know what youre taking.
    2. if it was your first time you should have worked with 15mg to start with and see how it went.
    3. the doses are different, nothing you could do about that, but i think you should have went with the same product in 10mg caps.
    No its not ergomax. Its phera-plex. Pheramax= pheraplex with an extra 5 mg of 5b so its like phera plex with a little ergo in it

    also this is my 2nd time taking it 1st time was pheraPlex only for 4 weeks

    but im in week 5 as of tomorrow so to late for this tlak anyway =] please help me weeks 4-10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pioneer
    my bad, didn't see it, lot of numbers floating around in there, just trying to make sense of this whole thing.
    lol haha no problem =]

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    SO what do you guys think of running t3 weeks 5-10? please let me no asap so i can order if i need it! =] thanks alot

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    My thyroid recovered pretty damn fast actually. It was my liver that decided to take a dive and not recover so quickly. Again, due to my own ignorance and not heeding advice of others.

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    i would say you do not need the t3 for this cycle, i think you have enough stuff going on... also, why is your PCT so lengthy? That is one hell of a PCT...

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    winny's hepatotoxicity isnt the big concern - it's the blood lipid crushing effect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by same_old
    winny's hepatotoxicity isnt the big concern - it's the blood lipid crushing effect.
    Please explain




    and jay what did you do to your liver? and how?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hameronkid
    Please explain

    and jay what did you do to your liver? and how?
    winny is CRAZY rough on your HDL. look around for logs and bloodwork (on other boards - this isnt the hardcore anabolic board, no offense to anyone)

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    Quote Originally Posted by opks22
    i would say you do not need the t3 for this cycle, i think you have enough stuff going on... also, why is your post cycle therapy so lengthy? That is one hell of a PCT...
    the t3 wood help me drop my bf down. also i like longer pcts, i feel i can also make gains on them/better long term recovery

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    Quote Originally Posted by same_old
    winny is CRAZY rough on your HDL. look around for logs and bloodwork (on other boards - this isnt the hardcore anabolic board, no offense to anyone)
    oh that im aware of =]

    by the way thanks for the quick responses. any ideas how to combat the HDL problems? ill research that 2mor anyhow but if u had suggestions its easier =]

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    I dosed M1T for 4 cycles within a years time and had blood work with pretty much everything elevated 10x the safe range. Took about a year for levels to get to normal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawkk
    I dosed M1T for 4 cycles within a years time and had blood work with pretty much everything elevated 10x the safe range. Took about a year for levels to get to normal.
    JESUS WTF??? M1T IS SOME HARSH SHIEEET ur crazy lol

    wow dont give me advice! jk lol i appreciate all the help u gave me so far bro =]

    so its on i bought the tren and winny and winny 6-10 tren 4-8 t3 possible 6-10 if i dont go nuts from tren

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    i need good advice asap!!!!
    ok im gonna do 50 mg winny eod weeks 6-10. IF IM DOING 50 EOD AND NOT ED DO I NEED TO INJECT??? can i drink 50 mg eod of home made winny 125 mg/ml ?? please tell me asap!!!!! i was reading something saying u would need alot mroe then 50 mg eod to be able to take it orally. if thats the case then i will put it with the tren in the syringe.

    also can u put tren and test e in same syringe? please tell me now!!! thanks guys

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    bump

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    bump! cmon guys please respond!! =[

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    Orals have an absurdly short life in the body. ED.. 50mg.

    Yes you can mix any oil based injectable with another oil based injectable.. just don't mix oil with water...

    or pooh with your food.

    I really don't know how I came up with this, as I'm Natty to the bone... and really do not have in inkling of knowledge on this subject.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
    Orals have an absurdly short life in the body. ED.. 50mg.

    Yes you can mix any oil based injectable with another oil based injectable.. just don't mix oil with water...

    or pooh with your food.

    I really don't know how I came up with this, as I'm Natty to the bone... and really do not have in inkling of knowledge on this subject.
    lmao pooh with foood lol ur funny as hell =]
    i wanna mix my winny water base? with tren ace oil base same needle u lose 10-20% of chemical when taken orally cuz of 1st pass of liver i decided to do 75 mg winny eod and 75 mg tren eod tren 4 6 weeks winny 4 last 4 weeks of the tren part

    shood work nicely and if i dont get to bad of sides in 1st 2 weeks of tren ima add some t3 in =]

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    no bro don't mix your water suspension with oil.. I totally painted that out clear as day..

    I'm being serious here.. no more attempt at humor. You didn't see that I said don't mix oil with water in my above post?

    Also the half-life of c-17 suspensions, or orals, require ED (2X ED for test susp) if you want good results in my opinion.

    .. don't do it. I don't care what anyone says about mixing oil and water being fine.. you have a chance of a sterile abcess from the placenta-like bolus that can form in depot.
    Last edited by Ubiquitous; 05-08-2006 at 01:55 AM.

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    news flash - this kid is 17 years old. mods - please ban him.

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=781908

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