safety of Nolva
- 04-16-2006, 11:49 PM
safety of Nolva
"In clinical trials it has been shown that cancer of the uterus, stroke, and blood clots can occur approximately 2 to 4 times more frequently with NOLVADEX than placebo, but each occurred in less than 1% of women. Some of these strokes, blood clots, and uterine cancers were fatal."
I have one incident of blood clots(anurism) in my family. Should I avoid Nolva because of this?
- 04-17-2006, 12:29 AM
I would guess most of the things that would cause you to need Nolva are more dangerous as far as blood clots than the Nolva itself. I do definately get higher blood pressure from Nolva. I didnt take a measurement but I felt like **** and my heart was pounding hard a few times after I took it. My BP is well within normal range, last time I took it on 25mg ephedrine/200mg caffeine and I was fine
I was fighting gyno symptoms so I took a lot when I got high BP, so 40mg shouldnt be too much a risk compared to any Oral or AAS.
- 04-17-2006, 02:23 AM
Breast cancer patients who use Nolva are typically using 200-100 mgs per day..quite a bit higher than our dosing protocol and always for much longer if not for life.
I'm not saying Nolva is good for you by any stretch of the imagination, but you have to assess the risk of a low dose, brief exposure to this drug for yourself. Personally, I think the risk is quite low, particurlarly if you supplement with fish oil and do regular cardio...but I am not in your shoes.
04-17-2006, 08:55 AM
FWIW I just had blood work done 2 weeks after ending PCT with Nolva 60/40/20/20 and all of my numbers were optimal, even liver enzymes. Also of note is the fact that I finished the cycle on 30mg ed SD for 6 weeks. I did everything right (IMO) as far as support supps like Milk Thistle, NAC and ALA but that should be a given.
Am I at a higher risk of of cancer in the uterus?, maybe but I passed the enormous bloodclot this morning on the pot so I should be fine.
04-17-2006, 11:07 AM
If you're doing it for PCT I wouldn't sweat it. There's also toremifene if you want to go that route.
04-17-2006, 11:40 AM
Nolvadex certainly is not good for you. However, many of the substances people ingest are not "good for you". One needs to calculate one's risk tolerance before even entering into the realm of using such substances.
If you are overly concerned, I would suggest speaking with your physician.
04-17-2006, 11:53 AM
When people suffer any ailment that puts them at risk of blood clots they are usually prescribed something to thin the blood to protect them example coumadin for conditions such as atrial fib. Now I would not suggest coumadin for pct but, the right use of aspirin and ramping up to a pretty good amount of vitamin e should help in thinning your blood. It kept my bp in normal ranges during my last pct fwiw. But I am not a doctor so if you are really concerned go see a doc.
BTW the reason so many wanted toremifene was partially because of its safety compared to nolva.
edit: The aspirin idea was from Dr.D.. although I have tried and will attest it worked in my situation. Credit where its due
04-17-2006, 12:48 PM
I suppose that breast cancer patients would have a greater risk for developing such adverse conditions than us since their dose is far greater than 40 mg and taken for longer periods. My doc is very anti-steroid unfortunately so I dont think I could confide in him.
I think I may just stick to ATD or formestane for my 1-test, 4-ad trans cycle. Thank you for all the replies.
btw, thanks for the aspirin tip
04-26-2006, 07:24 PM
Keep in mind that when you discontinue asprin you can have a "rebound" effect (a small bit of evidence here, not much yet)..so don't forget to take it while on Nolva.
When you take asprin, it irreversable changes the platlets you have so they don't clot as well...
But every day you lose some platlets and some are regrown, there for the need to take it every day. Heart patients are told to take 81 mgs a day, but you will be ok with just a 325 a day if it does not hur your stomach.
04-26-2006, 09:09 PM
1: Am J Hypertens. 2002 Aug;15(8):739-42. Related Articles, Links
Effect of estrogen receptor modulator tamoxifen on blood pressure, plasma renin activity, and renal sodium excretion.
Stergiou GS, Zourbaki AS, Efstathiou SP, Stathopoulos GP, Keramopoulos AD, Mountokalakis TD.
Hypertension Center, Third University Department of Medicine, Sotiria Hospital, Athens, Greece. firstname.lastname@example.org
BACKGROUND: Adjuvant treatment with the estrogen receptor modulator tamoxifen is a well established long-term therapy in breast cancer. This study investigated the effect of tamoxifen on blood pressure (BP) and on factors by which it might be influenced. METHODS: Normotensive postmenopausal women on > 12 months adjuvant tamoxifen therapy were randomized to withdraw or continue tamoxifen for 6 weeks and then to crossover to the alternative regimen for a second 6-week period. Measurements of clinic and ambulatory BP, plasma renin activity (PRA), and fractional sodium excretion (FE(Na)) were performed at baseline and at the end of each study period. RESULTS: Twenty-three women completed the study (mean age 60.6 +/- 8.3 years). There was no effect of tamoxifen on clinic BP (mean difference between withdrawal and continuation for systolic BP, 0.4 +/- 8.4 mm Hg, 95% confidence interval [CI] -4.0 to 3.2, and diastolic 0.6 +/- 4.7, 95%CI -1.4 to 2.7) or 24-hour ambulatory BP (systolic 0.7 +/- 7.4 mmHg, 95%CI -2.6 to 3.9; diastolic BP, 1.9 +/- 5.5, 95% CI -0.5 to 4.2). Furthermore, no effect of tamoxifen on PRA (mean difference between withdrawal and continuation 0.03 +/- 0.5 ng/mL/h, 95% CI -0.3 to 0.2) or FENa (0.05 +/- 0.5, 95% CI -0.2 to 0.2) was detected. CONCLUSIONS: Tamoxifen seems to have no effect on BP, PRA, or FE(Na) in normotensive postmenopausal women.
04-26-2006, 10:09 PM
When you are at the point in your life, where you are taking a drug specifically designed to treat breast cancer,...and you don't have cancer or even breasts,... because your not a women. You really have to evaluate your goals. If you are more inclined toward inhibiting receptor sites stimulation, than to heptoxicity, nolva is a good choice.Originally Posted by size
04-27-2006, 09:03 AM
Men can get breast cancer.Originally Posted by anabolicrhino
I do understand your point though.
05-13-2006, 10:20 PM
Exactly! A cigarette, jagerbombs, a mcdonalds double cheeseburger - all not "good for you", but I see people "doing these" on a daily basis. Like size said, it all about risk assessment, cost-benefit analysis. Nolva is necessary (depending on who you ask) after a cycle - and while not safe, is simply part of the process. I'm betting Nolva is safer than getting in your car and driving to work.Originally Posted by size
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