In place of nolva for gyno?
- 04-07-2006, 11:28 PM
In place of nolva for gyno?
I break out horribly on Nolva. I figured this out the last time I started taking nolva after feeling some gyno come on.
I have some preexisting gyno, that seems to be coming back and bothering me. Is there anything else besides nolva that works as well? Rebound seems to work well, but curious if theres anything else that may work as well.
- 04-08-2006, 02:03 AM
Raloxifene, Clomid as SERMS..
Armidex and Letrozole as AI's.
- 04-08-2006, 06:36 AM
use e-form from dermabolics. it's a transdermal. you'll love it. vitamin a for the acne. but if you've got it bad, or if it exists as it is, it's not gonna be enough if you're popping 6 rebound X's a day.
04-08-2006, 06:44 AM
You need to research more before giving advice. Clomid is a no go... and the AI's arent an effective route to go... try Tormifene, or Ralox.Originally Posted by CNorris
The Historic PES Legend
04-08-2006, 10:08 AM
Can you back that up? (copied and pasted from M&M)Originally Posted by DAdams91982
J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2001 Dec;79(1-5):27-34. Aromatase overexpression transgenic mice model: cell type specific expression and use of letrozole to abrogate mammary hyperplasia without affecting normal physiology.
Mandava U, Kirma N, Tekmal RR.
Department of Gynecology and Obstetrics, Emory University, 4217 Woodruff Memorial Building, 1639 Pierce Drive, Atlanta, GA 30322-4710, USA.
Our recent studies have shown that overexpression of aromatase results in increased tissue estrogenic activity and induction of hyperplastic and dysplastic lesions in female mammary glands and gynecomastia and testicular cancer in male aromatase transgenic mice. Both aromatase mRNA and protein are overexpressed in transgenic mammary glands and its expression is not limited to epithelial cells. However, it is more in epithelial than in stromal cells. Our results also indicate aromatase overexpression-induced changes in mammary glands can be abrogated [destroyed] with very low concentrations of the aromatase inhibitor, letrozole. Low concentration of letrozole had no effect on normal physiology as indicated by no significant change in the circulating levels of estradiol and follicle stimulating hormone as well as no change in estrogen responsive genes such as the progesterone receptor and lactoferrin in the uterine tissue. These observations indicate that the expression of aromatase in both epithelial and stromal cells can influence the complex interactions of biochemical pathways leading to mammary carcinogenesis and that the aromatase inhibitor, letrozole can be used as chemopreventive agents without affecting normal physiology.
04-08-2006, 11:13 AM
Only by reading everyone REAL world experiences with the use of these compounds. I have yet to see one person say that an AI was responsible for the reversal of gyno/symptoms. I will see if I can dig any studies up for you. though I would not base it on studies done on rats.Originally Posted by Danl4560
The Historic PES Legend
04-08-2006, 03:50 PM
I have heard that Rebound XT works for some people. From what I understand you must take a AI with a SERM because when get get off the nolva, the gyno could flare up again if its not treated with an AI. Right now im giving letro a shot. Getting rid of 78 + percent of estrogen cant hurt gyno. 1g/day Letro(1st day), 10-20mg day Nolva(4th week) cant hurt anything but my libido and cholesterol levels.
04-08-2006, 03:55 PM
Not everyone agrees AI's arent effective, and I was just throwing out the names of some similar drugs for him to investigate. It wasnt really even advice.Originally Posted by DAdams91982
04-08-2006, 04:58 PM
Hormone antagonists and their respective receptor sites vary from the personal experiences that have been relayed on this board.
I find that it would be highly improbable for me to get(non-prolactin) gyno while using Letro. I don't think it would be as effective on a pre existing condition, not many things seem to be effective for natural gyno, with the exception of Nolva.
Nolva aside from possible heptoxicity from long term use, has alway been my PCT choice. It always seem to hold my bulk until I can get my natural levels back to baseline
When ever you manipulate your hormones there are a few undesired side-effects,... for me, I would prefer ZITs to TITS!
04-08-2006, 05:15 PM
This is a small excerpt from Dr. D's post on the PCT board:
Estrogen only "rebounds" based on the mechanism of suppression. SERM, for example, only masks estrogen expression by occupying receptors but estrogen production is left unchecked and actually increases as testosterone levels increase. AI's like letro inhibit inducible enzymes and just like a leaky faucet, they body will eventually try to balance the equation with increased aromatase activity. Steroidal AI's like Teslac, Exemestane, and ReboundXT will not result in 'rebound' phenomena because the inhibition is non-competitive and irreversible. They act as false substrates, so aromatase is still happy to act on them (instead of androstenedione) and the body keeps no record of an imbalance. There is no leaky faucet. In fact, after prolonged use, steroidal AI's often produce a protracted anti-e benefit even after being discontinued. This is why I suggest an inverse taper with SERM and RXT for PCT with an abrupt stoppage of RXT at the end. As the SERM elevates androgen/estrogen production, the AI dose is increased to compensate while the SERM is phased out. It works quite well to use this approach and rebound is not encountered.
Have you considered trying this approach? Using SERM inverse to AI taper.. similar to a PCT protocol? (obviously using something like Toremifene as SERM)
Just a thought....Hope this helps, and good luck.....
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