Creatine on cycle?

russy_russ

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I've searched and couldn't locate a definite answer. I notice some people cease taking creatine while on cycle. Does this have any effects if one were to take creatine while on a cycle? Thanks :)
 
Old Guy

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I would stop it during the cycle and resume taking it during PCT.
 

russy_russ

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Yea that's what I've read, but couldn't find out why. Could you please explain this?
 
Mulletsoldier

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Russ, in all honesty man, if you have to ask why a product that is supposed to increase strength,pumps and muscle endurance isn't needed when you are on anabolics then you really shouldn't do them..And well, you've heard that before, but let me guess..You've done your research? Well this tells me you haven't cause if you had you would know all the effects, favourable and adverse of both AAS and Creatine AND could tell, instead of ask why you won't need to take Creatine on AAS...So don't get all hostile now and retort that you have been workin out for x amount of years and have done x amount of cycles, cause that will make you look worse..So don't do them, and have a nice day....:)
 

russy_russ

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It's cool, I didn't say I was taking them.. I'm still doing research.
 
Mulletsoldier

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Good man, now read your ass off until you have a firm grasp on what is going into your body, what it's gonna do once it gets there, and then have a nice cycle...
 

russy_russ

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Will do, thanks for the input :)
 

PumpingIron

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Russ,

I think its more of a quesiton of preference. The reason I would stop taking Creatine while on cycle, would be to let my body absorb the full effects of the AAS while I was on it. I don't see any reason it would hinder any gains, there are some people who continue using creatine while on cycle.

I personally use creatine year around, none of that cycling creatine bs in my book. And now that I just ran my first Phera cycle which ony finished about 2 weeks ago, I started using CEE again to help keep my strength up, as well as to keep some size.
 
Mulletsoldier

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I just wouldn't use it because really, there is no point. IMO you won't hinder your gains, save for maybe your pumps will be so bad they would affect your ROM in your workout....It is best to use the least amount of substance to get the job done, really you won't get anything additional out of using it, so why do it?
 

Bigdaddyandy

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I took creatine while on cycle.
No problems
But if you use the powder it can bloat you and if you use d-bol or anadrol it will bloat you out ALOT.
I used the liquid creatine(MMUSA), I've heard quite a few people talk **** about it. But most of them have never used it.
I like it because it does'nt make yopu retain water.

Now that I've rambled some I'll get to my point if you're going to use an anabolic that will make you retain water.
I would recommend usind the liquid (no bloat) creatine.
 

russy_russ

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Good point.
 
Old Guy

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Russ,

I think its more of a quesiton of preference. The reason I would stop taking Creatine while on cycle, would be to let my body absorb the full effects of the AAS while I was on it. I don't see any reason it would hinder any gains, there are some people who continue using creatine while on cycle.

I personally use creatine year around, none of that cycling creatine bs in my book. And now that I just ran my first Phera cycle which ony finished about 2 weeks ago, I started using CEE again to help keep my strength up, as well as to keep some size.
Yeah, I don't see any real problems using it. I just don't believe its necessary during a cycle and I do believe its a nice addition to PCT.
 
bpmartyr

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I cease whilst on cycle and resume for PCT solely to help feel stronger/fuller while recovering.

Creatine bloating has more to do with what it is bonded to than whether or not it is suspended in a liquid or not. Mono tends to bloat more than CEE or Di-Creatine Malate. Personally, I believe bloat to be more related to diet and lack of hydration. You see people who have to add in potassium supplements to reduce bloat from TTA when a serving of bananas or beans will give more than enough. I know i'm getting off topic but I can't help but notice the lack of variety in most BB diets. Oats & protein, some protein & oats topped with some protein & oats. Nothing wrong with a lot of the foods especially macro wise but there are a ton of benefits reaped from phyto & micro nutrients found in fruits and veggies that most seem to avoid.
 
Mulletsoldier

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I cease whilst on cycle and resume for PCT solely to help feel stronger/fuller while recovering.

Nothing wrong with a lot of the foods especially macro wise but there are a ton of benefits reaped from phyto & micro nutrients found in fruits and veggies that most seem to avoid.
Word, to both those points...
 

PumpingIron

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Nothing wrong with a lot of the foods especially macro wise but there are a ton of benefits reaped from phyto & micro nutrients found in fruits and veggies that most seem to avoid.
Yea, I def. agree. Protein and carbs are the core of the diet so whats why most bodybuilders will eat protein rich meats or take in protein powders and oats are one of the best source of good carbs...

But you sohuld add in fruits and veggies into your diet, I personally eat two peices of fruit a day on meal 2 and 4, plus veggies with meal 5 and meal three usually consists of a salad w/ either chicken or tuna...

I do think that changing things up will help with the bloat, and making sure your macro intake is good. Hydration and sodium intake play a much bigger role than the overall diet though, IMO. Sal and water are the two big factors that might lead to any bloating problems, whether it is too much sodium or not enough water...

This kinda swung off topic quickly...haha
 
jonny21

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Anavar + creatine = :D
 

bigred869

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i took creatine on a cycle that included deca and anadrol and i got roid gut out the ass. from now i just use it for pct.
 

de silva

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Anavar + creatine = :D
That's what I heard, too. Only I was told to make sure the creatine is CEE.

Yeah, it was pretty good, but then I've never tried var without CEE, so I couldn't tell you the difference.
 
Hank Vangut

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good article on cycling creatine:

Are you cycling your creatine? Find out why you may want to.

Title:

Creatine supplementation in health and disease. Effects of chronic creatine ingestion in vivo: down-regulation of the expression of creatine transporter isoforms in skeletal muscle.

Researchers:

Guerrero-Ontiveros ML, Wallimann T.
Institute for Cell Biology, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, ETH-Honggerberg, Zurich.

Source:

Mol Cell Biochem 1998 Jul;184(1-2):427-37

Summary:

These researchers studied the in vivo effect of dietary creatine as well as 3-GPA (a creatine analog that is a competitive inhibitor of creatine entry) on the expression of the creatine transporter (creatine T). Long term feeding of rats with 3-GPA has been previously shown to decrease creatine levels in skeletal muscles without effecting creatine T expression. In this study, the expression of the creatine T was examined in rats chronically fed either 4% creatine or 2.5% GPA. Dietary creatine administered for 3-6 months, significantly lowered the expression of creatine T polypeptides. The rats fed the creatine analog GPA showed virtually no change (perhaps even a slight increase) in creatine T polypeptide expression.

Discussion:

The wide spread use of creatine among athletes and bodybuilders has raised concerns about possible negative side effects. Of course most of the nay sayers are looking to control its availability with little real concern for the well being of those who use it. This study has answered a question that has rested on the minds of many, which is, "Is there any reason to cycle creatine?" From the study above we see that the abundance and activity of the creatine transporter is negatively effected by long term creatine ingestion. The creatine transporter is down regulated with continued exposure to extracellular creatine.

Human skeletal muscle has an upper limit of creatine that can, or will, be contained within the cell. This limit is around 150-160 mmol/kg of dry muscle. As the intracellular concentration of creatine approaches this level, the synthesis of creatine transporters declines and even stops depending on the amount of creatine ingested over time. In the study above, it was shown that the creatine transporter is regulated by the content of creatine in the cell rather than by the interaction of creatine, or it�s analog 3-GPA, with the transporter.

All the arguments about creatine absorption being a limiting factor in creatine content within the cell are bogus. Creatine does not need to be "micronized" or "effervesent" to lead to an increase in creatine content within your muscles. The activity of the creatine transporter is the limiting factor. Any trick increase in creatine absorption will only hasten creatine transporter down regulation. It only requires about 5 grams per day for 30 days to increase the content of creatine within muscle tissue to the same extent as 30 grams per day for 6 days. The sooner you reach the upper limit the sooner your muscles become unable to take up creatine. It is better to maintain sufficient levels of creatine transporters in order not to cause a rapid decline in creatine content once creatine supplementation is discontinued. Clearly there appears to be good reason to cycle creatine supplementation.

The authors of this study recommend not using creatine for over 3 months at a time. To truly cycle creatine you will have to take at least 4 weeks off. Creatine levels take at least one month to return to pre-supplement levels. It may be important to take the entire month off because one speculated mechanism of creatine transporter downregulation is that when the intracellular levels (levels inside the muscle cell) are increased the creatine transporters are taken down and not replaced as long as creatine levels remain elevated. Thus it might take as long as a month for creatine transporters to return to normal after chronic creatine supplementation. Keep in mind that no one has actually shown that long-term supplementation with creatine is a bad thing.
 
Hank Vangut

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Back to the qeustion at hand: is it a good idea to take creatine on aas?

All anabolic steriods are synthetic compounds whose structure is similar to that of the natural male sex horomone
testosterone. Testosterone affects development of the male body in two important ways: it has an anabolic effect-increased growth, expecially of muscular and skeletal tissue and an androgenic effect-increased development of mail sexual characteristics. Once taken into the bloodstream, anabolic steriods bind to hormone receptonrs on skeletal muscle and other cells and stimulate synthesis of certain specific enzymes. These enzymes promote two improtant biochemical reactions: creatine phoshate systesis and protein sythesis. Creatine phospate is a molecule that can be metabolized in the absense of sufficient oxygen as a shot-term source of energy. Increased creatine phospate synthesis thus allows athletes to train harders and for longer periods of time, and therefore build more muscle. Protien synthesis is essential for long-term development of increased muscle mass or "bulk". In addtion, anabolic steriods promote nitrogen retention by the body. By allowing for better utization of the nitrogen in ingested protein, anabolic steriods help athlets to build mass. However this effect is offset by the bodys homeostatic mechanisms, which are designed to maintain a stable environment: therefore in order to increase body mas by using anabolic steriods, athletes must also adhere to a diet with suffiecent protein and calories - up to 10,000 calories daily with 300 to 400 grams of protein.



Question: Creatine synthesis, if you increase creatine intake while on AS will it help you get stronger. I had always thought it just added to the amount of water you retain ?


Although creatine does have testosterone-like effects,it doesn't act as a steroid hormone.Instead,it's a mediator of some of the
androgens' anabolic effects.In fact,steroid users get far more out
of their cycles if they take in massive amounts of creatine along
with the drugs.Androgens are among the hormones that can force the entry of creatine into muscle cells.While there's a clear
relationship between muscle strength gains and increases in muscle creatine stores,unfortunately,the relationship is not as obvious when it comes to increases in muscle mass.Animal-based studies have shown that the muscles of untrained rats take up as much creatine as the muscles of trained rats,but the ANABOLIC effects of creatine are only obvious in trained rats.Therefore,training increases the muscles sensitivity to the anabolic actions of creatine.(Although it's not related to this article,the study also demonstrated that the anabolic effects of creatine are DIRECT,and not mediated by waterretention.In fact,in the 1970s American and Russian studies pointed out a DIRECT anabolic effect of creatine on muscle cells.)Testosterone increases the muscles'sensitivity to the anabolic properties of creatine in addition to enhancing the creatine buildup in muscle fibers.It's also obvious that part of the strength gains people experience while on steroids are mediated by an increase in muscle creatine stores.An interesting discovery A/S users have made is that they should dramatically increase their creatine intake during a cycle to boost the potency of the steroids.Thanks to creatine,people can build more muscle mass with fewer drugs.Anecdotal evidence from A/S users points out that it
takes at least 10-15 grams(maintenance)of creatine a day to visibly enhance the the anabolic potency of a steroid stack.There are probably good reasons for the increased creatine requirement when androgen levels are high.As mentioned above,steroids increase the muscle uptake of creatine,and if the muscles are ready to accept more creatine,why not give it to them?I also think that even though steroids enhance creatine synthesis,they may increase creatine degradation as well-so more creatine is used up every day.That could be due to an increase in muscle creatine turnover and also the fact
that an elevated muscle protein synthesis rate will likely consume
creatine at a faster rate.Other reasons for a higher creatine
requirement may be indirect.Because the muscles of drug users are stronger and receive more training,they may waste greater amounts of creatine during training.Once inside the muscle,creatine provides not only an anabolic effect,but also a rapidly mobilized source of fuel.Muscle protein synthesis is a process that wastes great amounts of energy.Anabolism is an ATP-dependent process,which means that it's essential for protein synthesis.If the cellular level of ATP is reduced even a little,IT STOPS ANABOLISM.So even if you can increase the testosterone content of your muscles,nothing will happen if your
ATP level is low.Creatine supports anabolism by providing energy to the muscle...
 

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