what is happening to me?
- 02-11-2006, 09:31 PM
what is happening to me?
well i'm three weeks into the following cycle:
wk 1-4 50mg dbol ed
wk 1-15 750mg sust
wk 1-15 600mg eq
some winny at the end but not relevant right now. here is the problem. for two weeks now i have been lost in a gray cloud of depression like nothing i have ever felt before, and as each day passes it grows and consumes more and more of me. i come home from work and instead of beign pumped about going to lift i lay on the couch and cry and then fall asleep till next day. now this is at 5pm or so, sleeping till 6am next day. i have no motivation to do anytihng, to lift, to eat, to even breathe. i have had depression in the past, but when i'm on cycle it rarely ever comes around, and certainly not to this extent. i've done very similar cycles in the past but never used eq. all previous test/dbol cycles were great with no sadness or apathy. could it be the eq that is causing this? i thoguht that but then i think well eq has a three week ester so it really hasn't even shown up yet. i have never used sust before, always been an enanthate/cyp guy. could it maybe be the sust? with all the different esters in it i'm wondering if there is a lot of hormone fluctuation going on causing ****ed up feelings. or am i just being a bitch? either way i would like something to change. last night i sat looking at a bottle of vicodin and a bottle of xanax and thougt, why not? i have yet to find a reason. if anyone has advice/experince/opinion, please give. thank you.
- 02-11-2006, 09:44 PM
Best advice anyone could give you here is to get some physchological help. Sounds like you have issues that extend any effects that are being envoked from AAS use. If you are having any suicidal tendencies or thoughts, it is definetely time to see a quak, buddy. Good luck. If you are convinced its your cycle, end it!
- 02-11-2006, 09:48 PM
02-11-2006, 09:50 PM
thanks guys. not blaming anything on the gear, just trying to elimate possibilities. like i said, fairly experinced aas user, very friendly and effective cycles in past, just introduced some new components such as eq and sust, wondering if they could play a role.
02-11-2006, 09:57 PM
Not an expert by any means. I believe I have read a correlation between HPTA (shutdown) and seratonin/dopamine and psychological issues. I believe the study mentioned a correlation in people with depression (using SSRI's for their seratonin/dopamine issues) had a low test level as well. I often suspected that the inverse may be the case or a possibility. Do see a professional at least.
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02-11-2006, 10:03 PM
thanks again guys. has anyone ever had depression while on eq? few guys on another board mentioned that eq could be a factor, but i still think that it's not possible as the eq really hasn't been realeased yet. contemplating maybe seeing someone on a weekly basis till this lifts, wonder if i should meniton my aas usage?
02-12-2006, 04:47 AM
1) it is probably the EQ, it has weird side effects in some.Originally Posted by jeff33333
2) are you taking any AIs? William Lywelln(sp?) wrote an article about estrogen and its affect on mood and seratoinin.
02-12-2006, 05:16 AM
My advice would be to speak to marianco over at the men's health forums over on meso. The same forum SWALE is on.
Marianco is a psychiatrist VERY familiar with TRT / Steroid cycles, as well as the intricate relationship between hormones and neurotransmitters.
02-12-2006, 07:09 AM
02-12-2006, 07:46 AM
jeff, I am the least likely guy to be giving advice here, having only limited experience with oral ph cycles and having asked plenty of questions elsewhere on AM about launching my own first injectable cycle.
But, doesn't the difference between Sust and either Cyp or Enthanate seem like the operating factor here? Don't guys usually use Dbol for around 4 weeks when they use the 2 longer esters cause those two aren't really doing much for about 4 weeks, and they go off the Dbol at about the same time the TestE or TestC kicks in? In your case, you are running a form of Test that is available at the same time the Dbol is.
I am guessing some folks do not suffer depression from aas and that the ones who do experience it at varying doses. With your cycle, running the quicker acting Sust with the Dbol has exceeded your own total aas threshold for depression, and the solution for a future cycle is to lower the dose of both, or eliminate the Dbol when using Sust, or use Enth or Cyp when running Dbol?
Just my .02, and that's expressed in noob-dollars.
02-12-2006, 09:11 AM
stop your cycle right now. There are a select few (with a standing history of depression) that experience this with steroid use. It's cases like this that the media uses as scare tactics to prevent young kids from using gear. The fact is it's a rare entity, but obviously not for you bud. It's absolutely nothing to be ashamed of, just stop your cycle and see a psychiatrist.
And dont take my word for it...any doc you see when you explain your symptoms will ask you if you're taking anything and as soon as you say steroids they will tell you to stop.
Good luck and god bless.
02-12-2006, 09:20 AM
I think all of you who are trying to help jeff33333 are very . Some really sound advice to jeff. Depression is nothing to fool around with.
02-18-2006, 10:21 PM
thanks a lot for the replies guys. rocky, i would assume the same, but the thing is i've done very balanced and thought out cycles in the past with no depression or other problems. only difference this time around is the eq and the sust. thanks again for all the help here.
02-19-2006, 10:20 AM
EQ has been known to cause anxiety problems in some. You have to consider the fact that we are messing with HORMONES--the chemicals that literally control your body. When on cycle I have had bouts of depression, rage, and also extreme pleasure. We are using powerful hormones that can change the way we think--I would almost bet it is the gear. You can either stop taking it or you can deal with the side effects. Alot of times the beginning of a cycle can be depressing cuz we want to look different and we are taking all these drugs and and want immediate results.....be we all know that can't happen and it is unrealistic to hope for that...
02-19-2006, 10:21 AM
AND one more thing....if you are experiencing these effects from EQ I would NOT try using tren at any point. Tren is a very weird drug that can make you (me) feel ****ing crazy.
02-19-2006, 12:33 PM
Bro I have experienced exactly what you are talking about and it happens anytime that I use highly anabolic compounds and the ratio is too high relative to the test. Also keep in mind that D-Bol has a profound effect on Dopamine but as it wears off it also drops Dopamine into the toilet. So make sure that your doses of D-Bol are consistent and not spread to far apart.
Actually my advice here would be drop the EQ and the D-Bol at least for now. Consider ending the cycle altogether (that is what I would do) and go directly into a strong PCT. Use a low dose of HCG every other day until the longest ester is out of your system or consider using test Prop until the longest ester is out of your system (this will keep at least test levels high relative to other androgens in the mean time while they get out of your system). Either way (the HCG EOD or the T-Prop idea) once the longest ester is out of your system use 1000ius of HCG a day for 10 days. Then drop the HCG and kick in Clomid at 300mgs for the first 2 days then drop to 100mgs per day for 2 weeks and then 50mgs per day for 4 more weeks. Also use Ogoplex, Fenugreek, and trib. I know this osunds like overkill but it is what I did to take me out of this when I was in it.
Take this seriously. Depression can get the better of you especially if you are at the point you describe. I know because unfortunately I have been there too.
Also as all of the other bros have said go get Professional help. It will better ensure you make it through this period and come back strong in the future.
Whatever you do though do not continue to take the AAS and get professional help. If you have to for a short tme while you are getting everything out of your system fine. But do not continue the cycle as planned and then go to therapy. Maybe consider starting a antidepressant if the Doctor reccomends it but do not start therapy right now. In the short run therapy tends to exacerbate symptoms of underlying psychological issues (especially if this is your first time in therapy) so continuing with the psysiological negative of the AAS (not negative for everyone or all the time just that they are negative for you in this particular combo and time) and starting therapy would be a no no.
Hang in there bro, none of us what to see anything bad happen so we are here for you.
Originally Posted by jeff33333
02-19-2006, 12:40 PM
Jeff I also just reread your original post and some of them subsequent to the one I quoted. First of all I think that consulting with marianco over at meso is a really good idea. He know this type of stuff better then anyone I have seen.
Also I suspect that this has a lot to do with the EQ after reviewing your cycle set-up. THe dosage of EQ is too high relative to the test. Especially when taking into account that the difference in ester length and time to release. Whenever I use an anabolic I always use at least twice as much Test mg/mg as any one anabolic. There is a much more scientific way to figure this out by comparing relative potencies at the SR but twice as much is a good rule of thumb that seems to work with little effort.
Also it could be a specific reaction to the EQ.
SO try to consult with marianco; see if some of my suggestions above will work in his opinion but whatever you do, DO NOT stop this cycle cold turkey without a good PCT.
02-19-2006, 04:22 PM
excellent replies mr. 50 and boss k.
boss k. thanks for the advice and insight. i do need to pay more attentiion to the fact that these are powerful hormones and that varying moods are to be expected. also, i ruled out tren a long time ago, won't ever touch it, but thanks for the tip.
mr. 50. i think you may have a valid point there with the dbol. i've never taken this much before. the thing is i have been off of it for 3 days now and things are lifting a bit, so i may have had too much of that going on there relative to the test.i believe you have a nice point about the eq test ratio. do you think it would be beneficial to drop the eq dose to say 400mg a week? also, i have been in therapy before and i'm actually going on tuesday. just gonna keep it simple, talk about some things, etc. without going over the top.
as of now my plan seems to be this. if my mood continues to lift a bit as it has after finishing up the bol i will continue on with this cycle and perhpas lower eq dose if that is seen as a good option. thanks again to all for your help and replies.
02-19-2006, 04:40 PM
02-19-2006, 05:43 PM
Hang in there Jeff. I do think that lowering the EQ dosage would be a good idea and 400 would likely be a good point. There are other good bros out there that disagree about this point (the test to ananbolic ratio) but for me it has always kept the sides at bay. one of my first cycles was 400mgs per wk of Test Cyp and 400mgs of Deca. It was absolutly horrible from a mood altering standpoint. I have not used Deca since. Then I did a number of cycles without test that were all pretty bad from teh mood standpoint also. Then finally I started to include Test in all my cycles and I noticed right away that every time I started a "cutter" (in the old days that ment to me low or no test) the same old side effects would kick in. Now all my cycles have test included and at a level that is at least twice the anabolic I am using. Of course this means that it is a bit of a problem when cutting but really only requires a bit of added attention to sodium intake and estrogenic control (AI etc.)
Originally Posted by jeff33333
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