Sterilizing Injectables, Not Homebrews

[GrossSizeRocks]

Got some typical newbie questions on sterilizing injectable gear that is already made and bottled, not something I made myself.

Did a search, but most discussion seems to be for homebrew folks, there's a term or two I don't understand, and, man, things look kinda bleak as far as effectiveness.

I was hoping I could immerse my sealed vials in boiling water or bake them, and life would be that simple.

What I'm seeing instead is that some feel that the temperature won't kill the little bastards, that only filtering and BA during the manufacturing process can do that, and other considerations, like damaging your aas itself and/or the glass, the rubber seal, etc.

So what would you do to sterilize pre-made gear (I'm holding oil-based right now, but talk about non-oil too if you like)?

Boil or Bake(at what oven temp?), one session or repeated heating/cooling? What precautions to protect the aas, the glass, the rubber? What do guys mean by "venting?" If that is simply piercing the rubber with a needle, is it better to use a smaller gauge or must you use a large to adequately vent?

Is anything really effective and worth the effort, short of making your own from scratch?

I do not have an autoclave, access to radiation, or the like - just normal household stuff.

Thanks in advance.

 

[jarhead]

Yeah you can bake it at 250(15 min then cool, repeat) in your oven. Venting is indeed just sticking a needle in it to equalize the pressure. Just be sure to check it and make sure the plastic on the end of the needle doesn't melt over and block up the pin. You can use 18 or 20 guage, or any size really, I just use the larger. Or you can also buy sterile filters and filter it again.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

The most heat resistant bacteria (extremophiles) will only life to sub-200deg F temperatures. But, that's irrelevant BECAUSE the smallest of the small bacteria are about 20.0um in diameter, and the common used whatman filters are 0.45um and 0.22um, much smaller pore size than the bacteria could possibly fit through. Some virus', on the other hand, are as small as 0.1um, but they aren't as hardy as the bacteria.

Then, to top it all off, most abcesses linked to injection were caused by "particles" not bacteria. So, don't worry too much. Just run it through a 0.45um filter if you're worried.

 

[Pioneer]

run it through a .22um filter into a new sealed sterile vial.

 

[tattoopierced1]

you could run it through a filter and then bake it. then you'd really have no worries about how clean it is.

 

[Boss_K]

Why are you concerned with sterility in the first place. If I even questioned my sources sterility I wouldn't be ordering from him, not even once.

 

[Neuromancer]

What kwyk said!

I had a discussion with Nandi some time ago about baking my gear. Basically I didn't believe it was worth it and he, in typical Nandi fashion, came back with quite a bit of scientific evidence that it just wasn't doing much of anything to bake your gear.

To sum it up he claimed that the heat change you can cause without damaging the hormone is too insignificant to do what you are intending to do.

 

[Matthew D]

The most heat resistant bacteria (extremophiles) will only life to sub-200deg F temperatures. But, that's irrelevant BECAUSE the smallest of the small bacteria are about 20.0um in diameter, and the common used whatman filters are 0.45um and 0.22um, much smaller pore size than the bacteria could possibly fit through. Some virus', on the other hand, are as small as 0.1um, but they aren't as hardy as the bacteria.

Then, to top it all off, most abcesses linked to injection were caused by "particles" not bacteria. So, don't worry too much. Just run it through a 0.45um filter if you're worried.

Actually, the endospore form of many common bacteria can withstand dry heat extermely well and most of all the extremephiles are non pathogentic in nature... main reason that an autoclave uses a combination of steam heat and pressure is to kill endospores. Also, some viruses are down in the 10 nm range of size. Sorry just wanted to make the point.

 

[x_muscle]

An autoclave goes to 121C for 30min cycle, to kill spores which are heat resistant. I dont know if heating for 15 min is effective, and filitering willl make you loss some of you gear.

 

[CROWLER]

Why are you concerned with sterility in the first place. If I even questioned my sources sterility I wouldn't be ordering from him, not even once.

Same question I have.


CROWLER

 

[Matthew D]

the loss of gear would be very small

 

[GrossSizeRocks]

Fair question, Crowler and Boss K, so I'll explain a bit:

Got my first batch of gear recently. Got it from one of those hrt/wellness/rejuvenation places (USA) that has a doctor prescribe and a separate pharmacy supply the goods, AND the doctor will prescribe supra-physiological amounts.

Did a lot of reading, some question-posting earlier here at AM, and did my first shot a bit more than a week ago. Quad shot, Test E and Deca, no Prop, no Suspension, followed all the sterile procedures, only did 2 ml, AND had a reaction of some kind.

Do not know if it was an infection or something else. No symptoms at the mid-thigh site, but there was swelling and heat just above the knee, which would be "downstream" maybe 6" if gravity and dispersal had anything to do with it. Leg was not paralyzed but was very stiff and a little painful, skipped 2 days work and went to a local doctor, played dumb, did not mention my shot. He did some bloodwork and declared "infection" based on elevated white blood cells and granulcytes(sp?), gave me antibiotics and a muscle relaxant and I was better within 48 hours.

I had discontinued the gear use, but now I'm hot to resume. My American pharmacy source SHOULD be as safe as they come, but I did have some kind of reaction to something. Maybe it was to particles rather than germs, maybe it was somewhat normal and I'm a newbie puss, I don't know.

To answer the specific question from BossK and Crowler, I am just fishing here. Definitely want to get back on the horse that threw me, want to cover as many bases as I can think of, and I freely admit my question may say more about me than about my source.

Using you guys to increase my chances of success.

 

[Matthew D]

sounds like to me, you might have messed up with sterilizing the area around the injection site. Everyone has mutiple bacteria that are capable of causing infections living on their skin at all times. If the site is not cleaned well and the the top of the vial is not clean then you run the risk of injecting these bacteria deep into the muscle which is a great place for them grow and multiple quickly. On a side note, you don't have a cold or anything do you because that can cause elevated white blood cells counts also

 

[CROWLER]

GSR,

Thanks for the detailed explination. If it were I, I would try again with just .5ml with a glute shot. Wait 2 days and see how things go.

To do your shot my suggestion would be this.

Wash your hands with anti bacterial soap for 30 second at least.

Wash the glute area with anti bacterial soap for a minute.

Wipe the top of the vial with a fair amount of pressure 3 to 4 swipes with the alcohol pad. Withdraw the Test/Deca. Then cover the needle. Change needles.

Wipe the ENTIRE area where you are going to inject. BUT only in ONE direction and with a fair amount of pressure. Now we aren't trying to do derm abbraision but you do want to 'scrape' the yuckies off the skin.

Then decide the exact area you are going to pin. Take a new alcohol pad and wipe again in ONE direction 15 times.

Then go ahead and inject. Normally I wouldn't be so exasperatingly careful but after your last go round it can't hurt.


CROWLER

 

[GrossSizeRocks]

Exasperatingly careful is good, will try your recommendations.

You've got me curious, though, what's up with the emphasis on just wiping in one direction as opposed to back and forth? Also, the tiny, .5ml injection into the larger glute site, I'm guessing you're just trying to rule out the possibility that 2ml was too much volume for me? I see guys here all the time suggest that 2ml is just a starting point, at least for glute OR quad shots, but I suppose individuals vary on this?

Additional answers: no, I did/do not have a cold or any other infection that I know of, I never had any swelling or redness at the site or any fever overall, just the swelling and heat 6" away, and that swelling was not huge, just big enough to notice. Forgot to mention before, but I did aspirate and was not in a vein.

A medical thought - if you are not infected with bacteria or virus but you did inject "particles" (what's that, pieces of the rubber seal?) or you develop a sterile abcess from poor dispersion, would the body react in a false positive way and spike white blood cells, etc because it had been fooled into thinking it was infected?

 

[CROWLER]

One direction instead of back and forth so you at least have a chance of actually wiping the bacteria off that area of the skin. Instead of making a frothy bacteria soup lol

The .5ml is to rule out the possibility that your gear is the cullprate of your 'infection' After the 2 days you can try 1ml in your thigh then 3 days later try the full 2ml in your glute.
Personally my glute can take more and handle 'bad' AS better than any other spot. Other people may experience something different.


IMO 2ml is NOT a starting does although of course it is all relavtive to what mg to ml ration you are using. How many mgs of Test and Deca do you have per ml?

As far as a false positive I only made it through the second grade so I don't know about those things, I will leave that question to the smart guys here.


CROWLER

 

[GrossSizeRocks]

300mg/ml of each. The plan was to do the Test E twice per week, once in a lone, 1 ml shot, and once with a ml of Deca in the same shot.

In other words, one 1 ml shot per week, one 2ml shot per week, 600 total mg Test E per week, 300 total ml Deca per week. Wanted to be a little cautious with the Deca dosing on this first cycle till I see how the bloating looks, can always adjust up or down for a planned second cycle in late 2006.

 

[CROWLER]

Once you get all things sorted out I would just do the same amount in each shot.

It will help keep the levels better in your body. Would be even better if you did the shots every 3 days but then of course you would lower the amount in each shot.


CROWLER

 

[Matthew D]

I would think you might be right about the sterile abcess but let me do a bit of reading to see if I am thinking right..

 

[GrossSizeRocks]

Just think, in a more sensible world, I would just ask my local doctor all this (my source/doctor is an out of state "clinic"), but instead I come here and ask you guys.


Probably get better answers here, too. Thanks so far to all, esp. to Crowler, who gets rep points or hugs or some such ****.

 

[CROWLER]

You are MORE than welcome bro. I try to help when I can.

How did the .5ml shot go?

BTW I prefer the hug but that still doesn't mean we are going to take warm showers together lol

CROWLER

 

[GrossSizeRocks]

Crowler, I am trying desperately not to turn this thread into the GrossSize Soap Opera, but I do owe you an answer, so:

the .5ml shot did not go and will not go for another coupla weeks. I have a week of vacation time coming up then that I'd already scheduled a while back. It just seems to make sense to wait till then to resume sticking. Along with the precautions I already knew and the ones I learned in this thread, I am going to mix in some patience.

I felt like a **** calling in sick before, but I'll allow myself one of those. If by some chance I **** myself up again when I restart my cycle, it makes sense to use this pre-arranged time off to absorb any puss time I might develop. I am hot to get going, but I waited years to pop my injectable cherry, a coupla more weeks won't change the grand scheme of things. In a year or so I will hopefully be the veteran of two complete cycles and disgustingly large, whether all that began in January 2006 or February 2006 will be negligible by then.

(but I will take your .5ml, and other, advice)