brothers, i am back (real cycle time help)

[darius]

Hey everyone, its been a while since I've been on here but I am really getting back into the bodybuilding scene.. it was a shame that I fell out for a while, but I'm back in now.

OK, real cycle time with injections and all for a bulker.
I need some help planning this out, and I know you guys are the smartest when it comes to this stuff.

A little background:
21 years old, 230lbs, 6'3"
1st Cycle - M4OHN 6 weeks
2nd Cycle - Superdrol/19-Nor trans. 5 weeks
3rd Cycle - Superdrol 3 weeks

Those are the only cycles that I have ever done.

In my imaginary dream I have acquired 2 - 10ml vials of 200mg/ml Testosterone cypionate. So that's good for 8 weeks at 500mg a week. I also want to stack this with something.
1.) Is 8 weeks for 500mg/wk twice weekly injections of 250mg stacked with something an alright idea? Everything that I have read points to 10-12 week cycles.
2.) If I do an 8 week cycle will I need HCG? And if so how much HCG?
I really don't want to try to search my imaginary dreams and find HCG but I will if its highly recommended.
3.) I'm a big dude, will 500mg/wk of Test cyp. cut it, and for 8 weeks?

This is what I was thinking cycle wise, please feel free and please do revise it:

Week 1: Superdrol 20mg/Test Cyp. 500mg
Week 2: Superdrol 20mg/Test Cyp. 500mg
Week 3: Superdrol 20mg/Test Cyp. 500mg/250mg 4OHT Transdermal
Week 4: Test Cyp. 500mg/250mg 4OHT Transdermal
Week 5: Test Cyp. 500mg/250mg 4OHT Transdermal
Week 6: Test Cyp. 500mg/250mg 4OHT Transdermal
Week 7: Test Cyp. 500mg/250mg 4OHT Transdermal
Week 8:Test Cyp. 500mg/250mg 4OHT Transdermal

I will control bloat and such with Arimidex. I will have Nolva on hand for gyno, and I will have a full PCT with a Nolva/Clomid setup.

I will have all the other necessary supplements for acne, prostate, and hair loss.

Would it be ok to use a bottle or 2 of Propecia during this cycle at small doses to keep DHT down, cause I have MPB? I can also use topical spirolactone and (minoxidil which I already use).

I am not worried about any other health problems, cause my blood work is good, the only thing is blood pressure. I know that it will go up with this, what can I use to control it while on?

Any other clues or additions/critcism? Thanks alot guys. Really appreciate it.


oh and on my 19-nor/superdrol cycle for 5 weeks I gained over 20lbs and put over 45 lbs on my bench, how should this compare to that??

 

[Ubiquitous]

In my personal opinion, 8 weeks is not long enough at all. Cypionate takes a while to build effective levels. 12 and beyond is optimal. This is the same with any of the medium-long to long esters. Get more Cypionate...

HCG is not absolutely necessary, but it is beneficial.

Many attest to 500 being effective.. you're not too big for 500mg, but I personally noticed a positive difference at 750mg and beyond..

results seem to be very individualized, there are so many variables.. diet/training/rest/stress/planning/quality of life... etc..etc.

 

[exposed]

Hello my long lost friend, Good luck.

 

[darius]

OK so 12 weeks, do I need HCG for 12 weeks and if so what dose??

What kind of gains should I expect with near optimum levels of every other variable using the Superdrol/Test Cyp/4OHT?

 

[milwood]

Welcome back! I agree with Ubiq regarding length. I like the setup, but if you can extend it 4-6 weeks, adding something else (M4OHN if you still have some maybe, or 3 weeks of SD at the end or something?), and up the 4OHT dose IMO. I'd say HCG for sure!

 

[darius]

Welcome back! I agree with Ubiq regarding length. I like the setup, but if you can extend it 4-6 weeks, adding something else (M4OHN if you still have some maybe, or 3 weeks of SD at the end or something?), and up the 4OHT dose IMO. I'd say HCG for sure!

\

good god a 12 week cycle seems insane.. I''m used to these 3-6 week oral cycles. OK so 12 weeks it is.:wtf:

Week 1: Superdrol 20mg/Test Cyp. 500mg
Week 2: Superdrol 20mg/Test Cyp. 500mg
Week 3: Superdrol 20mg/Test Cyp. 500mg/300mg 4OHT Transdermal
Week 4: Test Cyp. 500mg/300mg 4OHT Transdermal/40mg M4OHN
Week 5: Test Cyp. 500mg/300mg 4OHT Transdermal/40mg M4OHN
Week 6: Test Cyp. 500mg/300mg 4OHT Transdermal/40mg M4OHN
Week 7: Test Cyp. 500mg/300mg 4OHT Transdermal/40mg M4OHN
Week 8 Test Cyp. 500mg/300mg 4OHT Transdermal/40mg M4OHN
Week 9: Test Cyp. 500mg/300mg 4OHT Transdermal/40mg M4OHN
Week 10: Test Cyp. 500mg/300mg 4OHT Transdermal/40mg M4OHN
Week 11: Test Cyp. 500mg/300mg 4OHT Transdermal/20mg Superdrol
Week 12: Test Cyp. 500mg/300mg 4OHT Transdermal/20mg Superdrol

:bow28:

So please, some insight on PCT for this beast would be much appreciated... Like basically everything I need to know about HCG dosing, frequency, length, and how to run Clomid/Nolva after this.

Would Propecia be ok while on this whole cycle like at a small dose? I have MPB.

Eating a shitload to the max, sleeping 10 hours a day, and working out till I nearly puke pass out, what can I honestly expect from this? Cause I was pretty satisfied with 5 weeks of Superdrol.. how does this compare to that??

Like how much mass gain is idea and like how much bench press/curl increases?

I know those are shitty questions, but just let me know what is norm, ideal or capable. Thanks alot. :burger:

 

[Skye]

In my personal opinion, 8 weeks is not long enough at all. Cypionate takes a while to build effective levels. 12 and beyond is optimal. This is the same with any of the medium-long to long esters. Get more Cypionate...

HCG is not absolutely necessary, but it is beneficial.

Many attest to 500 being effective.. you're not too big for 500mg, but I personally noticed a positive difference at 750mg and beyond..

results seem to be very individualized, there are so many variables.. diet/training/rest/stress/planning/quality of life... etc..etc.

Agreed on all counts. additionally your shouldn't need adex on 500 or even 750mg if your diet is decent. I alway recomend 10mg of nolvadex a day (or 20mg EOD) if for nothing else the the benifets on the lipid profiles while your on.

As for your blood pressure the best I have found is celery seed extract and hathorn berrys. That doesn't work add half an asprin twice a day. there are other things but this is what worked for me (too well in fact that when I am not running dbol I cant take the celery seed) though not everyone.

this is just my personal prefrances more than anything else but another option is that if you want a second compond during the cycle is to use deca or eq. I would go with the deca myself if you can get it. I am not real fond of SD (or any of the new ones myself, like to see what they do to the liver a little more) so I would rec prop to frontload or dbol, always my fav oral.

 

[darius]

How much mg frontload on deca inj. and for how many weeks, and frequency of injections?

I wanna get too big, then get cut and look like a god, of course gain a killer amount of strength on the way.

 

[Skye]

\

good god a 12 week cycle seems insane.. I''m used to these 3-6 week oral cycles. OK so 12 weeks it is.:wtf:

well I think everyone is thinking of the test. it takes about 4 to 5 weeks for the test to kick in. go read this: http://www.superiormuscle.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=196663&postcount=1

So please, some insight on PCT for this beast would be much appreciated... Like basically everything I need to know about HCG dosing, frequency, length, and how to run Clomid/Nolva after this.

HCG is optional as said but I like it. just run 250iu twice a week during the cycle Go here for more info :http://www.chemicalfitness.com/forums/showpost.php?p=36807&postcount=5

As for the PCT I keep it simple and it works. Start 2 weeks after you last shot of cyp and increase your nolvadex to 40mg a day for 2 weeks and then down to 20mg for another two weeks. People have told me that this works fine with a flat 20 mg for 4 weeks as well though I haven't tried it.

Would Propecia be ok while on this whole cycle like at a small dose? I have MPB.

I don't see why not, but ask someone with more knowledge on the subject.

Eating a shitload to the max, sleeping 10 hours a day, and working out till I nearly puke pass out, what can I honestly expect from this? Cause I was pretty satisfied with 5 weeks of Superdrol.. how does this compare to that??

Like how much mass gain is idea and like how much bench press/curl increases

that is a fools game to guess but I would bet that it will blow that one away. your also more likely to retain what you make. JMO

I know those are shitty questions, but just let me know what is norm, ideal or capable. Thanks alot. :burger:

see above

 

[Skye]

How much mg frontload on deca inj. and for how many weeks, and frequency of injections?

I wanna get too big, then get cut and look like a god, of course gain a killer amount of strength on the way.

In one cycle? you would be better off maybe breaking things up. most run a bulker or a cutter or what some like to call a "lean gains" cycle. Diet is the single most improtant the drugs you use are secondary. even deca (and all the water retention) can be used for cutting even if its not the best. if your wanting to cut or have a lean gains then I would forget it go with the EQ or just stick with the test. if your want to knwo about frontloading go here http://www.superiormuscle.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=196663&postcount=1

From what your saying I would go with a lean gains type and just run the test as Ubiquitous suggest ( really you don't need the other items although they are nice) or with EQ if you have it handy.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

People think injectables are the end-all-be-all, but, don't be one of the fooled ones Darius

The results you got from SuperDrol will be much more impressive, as will the ON feeling, than 500mg/wk of test.

edit: Oh....and, bump to everything ubi and sky said

 

[Skye]

People think injectables are the end-all-be-all, but, don't be one of the fooled ones Darius

The results you got from SuperDrol will be much more impressive, as will the ON feeling, than 500mg/wk of test.

edit: Oh....and, bump to everything ubi and sky said

I can say much the same about dbol. there just is that little issue of the fact its somewhat poisonous as is the SD and I have this certain fondness for my liver. . If nothing else the ablity to run it longer makes a good argurement for injectables.

 

[darius]

I wanted to do injectables because I thought they were safer, but it seems like I'm adding all these methyls so that idea kinda went out the window. If I can gain 20 keepable pounds and great strength, I will be happy for sure. And a part of me wants to try injectables just cause I've never done it before.

 

[Skye]

I wanted to do injectables because I thought they were safer, but it seems like I'm adding all these methyls so that idea kinda went out the window. If I can gain 20 keepable pounds and great strength, I will be happy for sure. And a part of me wants to try injectables just cause I've never done it before.

If your diet and training are good I will bet that your going to love 250mg test cyp two or three times a week

 

[kwyckemynd00]

I can say much the same about dbol. there just is that little issue of the fact its somewhat poisonous as is the SD and I have this certain fondness for my liver. . If nothing else the ablity to run it longer makes a good argurement for injectables.

Yeah, only reason I take them. :lol:

 

[max-rot98]

I agree with kwyck. I had this discussion also with Cedeoudes about sd compared with test and sd felt much stronger. Neither of us were impressed either with 500mg a week test enan. I think deo started at 215lbs and I at around 212. According to ALR if you weigh over 200 lbs when you start your first cycle you should do 750mg a week. Just a thought I'd put out for you. Some others will disagree, like glenihan gets great results with 500mgs test a week as you can see in his avatar. It will depend on how responsive you are not just how close you are to your genetic potential. Or at least this is my opinion.

Anyway, just thought it would be something for you to think about. Dbol imo is a far better compound to start out with than sd when running with test. You will put on much more size with it. And you won't feel like **** like on sd. Also just my opinion as I have run sd anywhere from 10-30mg and have run dbol 30-50mgs.

edit: Nice info skye. Answered alot of questions and thoughts I've had myself, thanks.

 

[motiv8er]

Max,
Glen is like 4'6 too. So that may have something to do with his results!!

EDIT: Please don't hurt me Glen!

 

[tattoopierced1]

People think injectables are the end-all-be-all, but, don't be one of the fooled ones Darius

The results you got from SuperDrol will be much more impressive, as will the ON feeling, than 500mg/wk of test.

edit: Oh....and, bump to everything ubi and sky said

I agree and disagree with this. I've done just SD cycles, but the combo of test and SD is just unreal. By far one of the best combo's around. But make sure you take care of your joints darius...get started on the glucosomine if you havent already and have some Cissus around just in case since your strength will go way up and your joints/tendons may have some issues.

 

[glenihan]

hey! i'm 4'7!! .. how dare you "short-change" me .. god i slay myself

in all seriousness some respond better than others to gear .. however, i think everyone should make their first cycle 500mg and go from there in other cycles .. 500mg SHOULD be enough for anyone on their first cycle to make great gains when coupled with a great diet, good training, and enough rest

 

[max-rot98]

hey! i'm 4'7!! .. how dare you "short-change" me .. god i slay myself

in all seriousness some respond better than others to gear .. however, i think everyone should make their first cycle 500mg and go from there in other cycles .. 500mg SHOULD be enough for anyone on their first cycle to make great gains when coupled with a great diet, good training, and enough rest

Told you he would say that.:thumbsup: But I agree with him. Although for myself 500 is not enough, it is a good start point. Like I said, thought I would throw it out there.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

I agree and disagree with this. I've done just SD cycles, but the combo of test and SD is just unreal. By far one of the best combo's around. But make sure you take care of your joints darius...get started on the glucosomine if you havent already and have some Cissus around just in case since your strength will go way up and your joints/tendons may have some issues.

That's because you have SD and Test Much more AAS in your system than SD alone.

And yeah, you'll grow off of 500mg, but if you're fairly well over 200lbs, its not gonna cut the cake IMO. Weight plays a factor in dose, too, IMHO.

 

[darius]

Ok this is what I figure I will do so far:

Superdrol will be done week 1 and 2 to kickstart the cycle, unless Phera Plex is a better (safer) choice. My only problem with Phera Plex is that I have never used it before, and I don't know how long it takes to typically see results with it. With Superdrol, for me, the gains come fast.

Testosterone cyp. will be run at 500mg injections (250mg twice weekly) for 4 weeks. The remainder 6 weeks (10 weeks total for Test cyp) will be run at 667mg split up twice weekly (why the odd number? its just the way I calculate it based on 3 - 10ml 200mg/ml vials).

4OHT will be run at 300mg transdermally all weeks 1-12. 4OHT should stack well with the Test Cyp. because I've read at higher dosing it can completely replace 4-AD. The only downside being the cost, but I have a bunch.

M4OHN will be run the last 4 weeks (weeks 9-12) in increasing dose pattern starting at 32mg going to 56mg.

HCG will be injected twice weekly at 250 IU from week 3 to week 10 (week 10, because 2 weeks before I start PCT).

So after week 10 I will stop the Test cyp, but continue with the 4OHT and M4OHN for 2 weeks, because during that 2 weeks the Test cyp should still be in my system. After week 12 I will start PCT.

I will supplement heavily with liver tabs/protection prior to, during, and after the cycle. I figure that after my 2 weeks of Superdrol, my values will be jacked so by the time I start the other oral, M4OHN it will give me 6 weeks to get my liver back on track. The M4OHN shouldn't be rough on the liver at 4 weeks.

For cholesterol I will do more research and find the best herbs and maybe pharmaceuticals for quickly bringing it back to normal levels.

For prostate, I will protect it with Saw Palmetto and every other herbal protection.

For hair, I will use minoxidil, nizoral 2%, propecia (I might break it in half and use .5mg while on cycle, or maybe just use a full 1mg while on. I will look at studies to find the % of DHT killing that it does and calculate it from there). Topical spiro will also be applied.

I will also use the normal vitamin regiment/antioxidants.

 

[CEDeoudes59]

In my personal opinion, 8 weeks is not long enough at all. Cypionate takes a while to build effective levels. 12 and beyond is optimal. This is the same with any of the medium-long to long esters. Get more Cypionate...

HCG is not absolutely necessary, but it is beneficial.

Many attest to 500 being effective.. you're not too big for 500mg, but I personally noticed a positive difference at 750mg and beyond..

results seem to be very individualized, there are so many variables.. diet/training/rest/stress/planning/quality of life... etc..etc.

Agree with all of this.
750mg is your starting point.
15mg of Superdrol is stronger than 500mg of test in my
opinion, obviously the length at which both are used differ.

at best, 500mg might get you close to where you were before.

If you're set on using SD I'd do so in the following matter.

1-2 Front Load: Test Cyp 1gram
2-14: Test Cyp 750/800mg (whatever the cyp concentration allows
2-5: Superdrol 20mg
13-16 Superdrol 30mg

edit: personally, I'd open with Dbol and close with Dbol - as your test levels will be nill in that final 2 week window. Superdrol in the final 2 is like Superdrol and absolutely no test. Prop would be even better.

 

[CEDeoudes59]

I agree with kwyck. I had this discussion also with Cedeoudes about sd compared with test and sd felt much stronger. Neither of us were impressed either with 500mg a week test enan. I think deo started at 215lbs and I at around 212. According to ALR if you weigh over 200 lbs when you start your first cycle you should do 750mg a week. Just a thought I'd put out for you. Some others will disagree, like glenihan gets great results with 500mgs test a week as you can see in his avatar. It will depend on how responsive you are not just how close you are to your genetic potential. Or at least this is my opinion.

Anyway, just thought it would be something for you to think about. Dbol imo is a far better compound to start out with than sd when running with test. You will put on much more size with it. And you won't feel like **** like on sd. Also just my opinion as I have run sd anywhere from 10-30mg and have run dbol 30-50mgs.

edit: Nice info skye. Answered alot of questions and thoughts I've had myself, thanks.

Yep, thing is it wasn't our first 'real cycle'.

my personal advice is, start at 750mg of Test if:
1) You are beyond your genetic limitation. (we seem to equate this with '200lbs' but it varies for everyone).*

2) You have prior AAS/PH/Methyl experience beyond a cumulative period of 8weeks.*

*These statements have not been evaluted by the FDA. This advice is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. It is simply CED59's opinion - and he has absolutely no experience with anabolics, girls, vitamins or weight training.