- 01-10-2006, 05:05 PM
Questions seem to pop up now and again about this stuff and while searching for a few answers of my own I came across this write up from the Bi Weekly Bull and figured it may be usefull to some of y'all so.....
Methyldihydrotestosterone (methyl-DHT; 17alpha-methyl-17beta-hydroxy-5alpha-androstane-3-on, mestanolone) is a steroid that has characteristics similar to those of DHT (dihydrotestosterone), but unlike DHT is orally bioavailable . Methyl-DHT was the second most commonly used steroid by German athletes in decades past, who were among the best in the world largely because of widespread steroid use . There is comparatively little information, either scientific or anecdotal, on methyl-DHT, although there is a wealth of information on DHT. This article will discuss the information on methyl-DHT and what can be expected from this compound.
One common way of characterizing steroids is by their relative anabolic (muscle-building) and androgenic effects. Androgenic effects refer primarily to secondary sex characteristics: increased body hair, deeper voice, balding, and so on. Androgenic compounds characteristically also have strong psychological effects, such as increased aggressiveness and concentration. Among bodybuilders, highly androgenic compounds are commonly used pre-contest or during cutting cycles for increasing muscle hardness and decreasing water retention and also to provide stimulation and increase concentration and performance in the gym. They also typically have anti-estrogenic effects.
The anabolic and androgenic effects of methyl-DHT were compared to testosterone and methyltestosterone in some early animal studies . In tests of its androgenic potency (total of five tests), methyl-DHT ranged from 20-255% as androgenic as testosterone or testosterone propionate, with a per study average of 70%. In terms of anabolic effects relative to testosterone, the range was 25-105% with an average at 55%. One study also compared the effects of methyl-DHT to methyltestosterone, and it measured as ~60% as androgenic and 25% as anabolic. The large differences in these values are due to multiple differences in experimental design, not to mention the problems with extrapolating animal research to humans, but this research does give a general idea of what the potency and effects of this compound might be.
Although some scattered small-scale research does appear to exist, there is very little published information on the use of methyl-DHT in humans. Observations in Germany by scientists indicated that it is effective at increasing athletic performance . There is also a patent that describes some of the effects of methyl-DHT administration on humans . According to the patent, methyl-DHT is anabolic in humans, but not with the same potency of other commonly used steroids. However, this was with only 10-20 mg daily. They also reported a strong anticatabolic effect (in other words, it inhibited lean tissue breakdown) in a study of 54 "physically highly stressed test persons."
Most notable in the patent, however, were comments regarding the psychological effects of methyl-DHT. To quote from the patent:"This research completely unexpectedly and surprisingly discovered a hitherto unknown further action of mestanolone [methyl-DHT], namely the supply thereof led to an optimization of the central nervous system activation during preparation for the task and to a maintaining of this optimum activation even under high stresses. Thus, there was an increase [in] psychophysiological capacity.A final effect indicated in this application was that after 20 mg for six weeks, natural testosterone production was not affected. It should not be counted on for this effect to be reliable, as it could have been a function of dose or the way that testosterone regulation was measured. All steroids should be cycled on and off, with the employment of proper post-cycle therapy.
"...The test persons performed difficult exercises requiring high physical capacities linked with high intellectual concentration and muscular coordination with far fewer errors. Complicated movement sequences with a high degree of stressing did not lead to a reduction in the degree of activation and instead the increased capacity remained after several repeats."
There is also another study, published in the early 1960's, in which women with tuberculosis were given 100 mg daily of methyl-DHT sublingually. Compared to control, the women given methyl-DHT had increased body weight and nitrogen retention .
Although user feedback is generally unreliable, it is the next best thing given the low amount of published information on the effects of methyl-DHT in humans. In general, reports from users are in line with what should be expected given the characteristics of this steroid: the perception of muscle hardening, decreased appearance of body fat, strength increases, muscle preservation while dieting (but no pronounced muscle building effect), increased sex drive, and increased confidence and concentration in the gym. In terms of side effects, some report an increased rate of hair loss, while others do not note this effect.
We now have information on the historical use of this compound in Germany, animal studies, a human study (albeit from a patent application, which is far from ideal), and user feedback. Putting this all together, we find that the information is generally consistent, and the following conclusions can be drawn:Methyl-DHT has a strong psychological component, increasing aggression, concentration, strength, stamina, and athletic performance. It is ideal for use pre-workout.It may be that methyl-DHT is best used as a supplement to a more potent substance while on a cycle. By using this strategy, one could have the muscle building effects of one compound and the psychological benefit of methyl-DHT at the same time.
Methyl-DHT will build muscle, but not nearly to the same degree as potent muscle builders such as methyl-1-test or many other commonly used steroids. However, it will help preserve muscle during periods of high stress or dieting.
Side effects will be primarily androgenic in nature, and estrogenic side effects (gyno, water retention) are very unlikely. Concurrent use of other substances to prevent hair loss, acne, or prostate enlargement (note that whether or not DHT causes this is a point of debate) is something to consider. Also, women should not use methyl-DHT.
In terms of dosage, 20-50 mg is recommended. Generally, people will take a dosage on the higher end of this range as a standalone, or a lower dose when stacking. Since this compound is methylated, liver toxicity is a potential concern. Not taking more than 50 mg, limiting cycle length to a month or less, avoiding alcohol, other methyls, and other drugs that may compromise the liver, and taking a supplement to protect the liver are all recommended. And, as with any steroid or prohormone, a cycle should be followed up with post-cyle therapy.Recent log:http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/213350-lean-efx-refined.html
- 01-10-2006, 05:34 PM
Thanks for that mate. I am thinking about using some of this in the summer since it's pretty cheap. (not my sole reason)
- 01-10-2006, 05:52 PM
01-10-2006, 06:21 PM
I looked for the reference point thread for this and didn't find it. Anyone have some experience to add with respect to dosing?
01-10-2006, 06:23 PM
I am currently taking 60mg ed. I have taken as much as 100mg ed with no problems. 60 seems to be the sweet spot for me however. My first time using it I was running like 25mg ed and it didn't do squat for me.
01-11-2006, 10:39 AM
BPmatyr Thanks for your informative posts! I did read that write-up some time ago. What I would like to know is; what would, do, you stack it with for maximal results. What do you think of alternate day dosing with another methyl?The point would be to make gains without shutdown or minimal shutdown. Trying to get others opinions on this
01-11-2006, 10:46 AM
I was very disappointed with MDHT. I liked M5AA, its prohormone equivilent is 100% better.
MDHT for the most part makes me feel unpleasant, and I didn't get anything in the way of results.
Its only redeeming factor is that it puts my libido through the roof. Sex on MDHT blows me away.
01-11-2006, 10:51 AM
I only run it as an add on and have never ran it solo. I don't think alternating is a good idea as the half life is short and you want your blood levels stable. I believe this to be a pretty mild methyl and have stacked with m4ohn and even SD. I like it stacked with test the best, but I think everything should revolve around test. I have used it while on 4AD as well and it deff helped dry up a lot of the bloat. I don't know about the no or minimal shutdown thing. I always run PCT anytime I have used an anabolic/anrogenic compound.
01-11-2006, 10:56 AM
01-11-2006, 11:09 AM
Yes I have heard there are mixed results. Im wondering if there was a difference in brands or if all the raw came from one source. I had good results with it but it came from the first supp company to ever launch it. Anyway, That no shutdown thing is a dream, perhaps and yes PCT is a must.
01-11-2006, 11:24 AM
I have the bulk powder from custom, methyl jacked I think it was called. And I had a couple bottles from Primaforce? Methyl Rage. Never used any others. Both seem comperable.
01-11-2006, 12:19 PM
I love MDHT.....and still have some and going to be used in my upcoming cutter:
1-3 test prop 100mg eod
1-10 test enan 500mg/wk
1-6 tren ace 75mg eod
7-12 mdht 50mg ed
tren to help with fat loss and vascularity, and mdht to really harden and dry me up! should be tons of fun!
01-11-2006, 11:44 PM
01-12-2006, 12:29 AM
It is available but this isn't an open source board.
On another note, since I've heard numerous times that this is fairly mild on the liver, what would you say would be the optimum/max length of a cycle assuming liver protection is in order?
01-12-2006, 12:38 AM
I had the same experience. It reminded me of Yohimbe, but with less blood pressure and more anger. It was like everbody is annoying and stupid so lets ****!Originally Posted by RobInKuwait
01-12-2006, 12:50 AM
01-12-2006, 08:28 AM
01-12-2006, 08:38 AM
01-12-2006, 10:36 AM
its not very hepatoxic..but it can be bad on cholesterol just like any highly androgenic compound like winny, masteron ect.....one should limit use to 6 weeks and 100mg ED....i opt for 50mg ED for 6 weeks and its great
01-15-2006, 09:53 AM
MDHT.......the lack of tolerance reference point thread
who else has visions of going Ike Turner on people who irritate you while taking MDHT. I swear....we should give this to our soldiers.....**** will get done regardless of poitics.
01-15-2006, 01:12 PM
I'm curious how long this stuff lasts in storage. It just occurred to me that I bought some before the ban, and never used it.
01-15-2006, 02:06 PM
I am sure it has expired. I will give you my address so you can ship it to me for safe disposal.
01-15-2006, 03:02 PM
01-15-2006, 10:29 PM
I'm runnin it right now to start off my emax cycle, I'm at 75mg a day split into 2 doses, I love MDHT and M5aa, both only I'm out of M5aa and on my last bottle of MDHT, I totally wish these weren't banned. The only problem I have is with the extreme dryness I get the really sore wrists.
01-15-2006, 10:45 PM
01-16-2006, 01:58 AM
01-16-2006, 02:37 AM
01-16-2006, 07:50 AM
01-16-2006, 06:06 PM
01-16-2006, 06:29 PM
I just put it in oliveoil as a suspension.
01-17-2006, 12:07 PM
01-17-2006, 05:03 PM
I've been using this stuff for 3 weeks (giant brand sts-646) and I love it. The recovery time between sets is the biggest benefit for me. I kind of feel like **** later in the day when its effects wear off but I will continue using it for 3 more weeks. 50 mgs a day pre workout.
02-15-2008, 09:33 PM
I'm assuming this is normal, but wanted to double check w/ guys that have mixed it this way. My main concern is unreliable dosing by getting "hotspots" of powder in some doses moreso than in others.
07-12-2008, 05:56 PM
yea thats normal I still have plenty and started using it again preworkout and it great just the dryness can give u joint pain
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