- 12-28-2005, 07:34 AM
Just wondering if someone could help clear this up for me because I have recently seen a number of threads which are sugesting that SD is pretty harsh on the liver.
However I was under the impression from the threads I read when SD first came out that it was pretty mild. Infact I remember a thread which said SD made MOHN look like a binge drink in comparison or something along those lines anyway.
I know it has pretty harsh effects on lipids but did i miss something along the way and was the initial toxicity under estimated?
- 12-28-2005, 09:59 AM
dude, superdrol is hard... maybe I respond bad to it or something, but this has been MISERABLE. I'm not speaking from a lipid point of view, but just side effects (INSOMONIA - the killer, possibly hypoglycemia related from it too, and lethargic obviously)
- 12-28-2005, 11:11 AM
I'm curious anbout this subject too. I know that people have gotten bloodwork back showing elevated liver enzymes and lipids messed up, but other than that, how did it get the rep for being so harsh on the liver? OK there are many things that will show elevated liver enzymes(drinking, ibuprophen, even excercise to a degree). But the average dose is 10-30 mgs/ day for a max of 3-4 weeks. People give it this rep for being harsher than anadrol or dbol. This makes no sense to me when you compare anadrol's(which is harsh itself) dosing(average about 75-150mgs/day for 4-6 weeks max). I guess what I want to know is are there any SCIENTIFIC reasons for this assumption or is it brotelligence running rampant? Read threads on anadrol, and you won't see so many guys in a panic saying "make sure you frontload your liver supps!!!"
Btw oli200, I think the sides(other than what shows on bloodwork) are a person by person thing. Me personally, I only got hypoglycemic symptoms if my carbs were too low. Other than that, everything was fine. But ask 20 different people and you'll get 20 different responses of how their results were, sides, etc. etc.
12-28-2005, 03:55 PM
i think superdrol is pretty harsh from what i've seen and fealt, but when it first came out the bar was M1t which is like just taking your liver out and putting it in the garbage disposal, so of course superdrol is better than that. i think generally the liver toxicity is overplayed unless you have a pre-existing condition. your liver values will return to normal eventually as long as you dont bingedrink/drugs and take sd forever,
and, while i take all teh accesory supps, there is contradicting medical studies on all of them and i have a hard tiem believing that milk thistle is anywhere near as tough a chemical as a methylated steroid.
12-28-2005, 05:13 PM
It has been compared toxicity wise to m1t from the start. It never was touted as being mild on the liver, or cardiovascular system for that matter. The whole point was comparable gains to m1t with less sides, toxicity, which imo it is just that.
12-28-2005, 05:42 PM
I did SD 30mg for 3x a day for 3 weeks and did not have a problem, except I had to buy my shirts in XXL.
I figure folks just react different. I am don't gets sides from most things I have taken. I had back pumps pretty bad but other than that, not even acne. Felt great for me.
12-28-2005, 05:46 PM
Assumptions for the most part. Most of the bloodwork that I have seen posted is not too bad. Elevated ALT can happen from a weekend bender, car accident with trauma, heavy workout... I have not seen any bloodwork posted where GGT was highly elevated. Most methylated AAS screw around with lipids. Most logs I see on the board do not involve many facts or pertinent information. Just a lot of "great pumps", "I'm feeling lethargic", "I must have been hypoglycemic", or my favorite "I gained 30lbs of LBM in 3 weeks"Originally Posted by jarhead
Check out B5150's log and bloodwork. he was a tester of a high dosage up to 40mg/day I think. Check out page 12 to see his LFT comparison from start to finish.
Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
12-28-2005, 05:48 PM
12-28-2005, 05:49 PM
i have a bottle of superdrol on the way to my house but i am a little hesitent to take it. should u take milk thistle during and does it stop some of ur potential gains?
12-28-2005, 05:54 PM
I took MT during but started it 1 week before the SD also.
I can't claim 30lb of LBM. I gained 10 lbs of which I kept like 6 afterward. I did get alot stronger and kept most of that. That is what I was impressed with. 315lb bench about the middle of second week just flew up and next thing I know i had done 8 reps. I remember my gym partner just staring at me all in the spotter pose with his mouth open..
12-28-2005, 07:23 PM
i don't think so. take Milk Thistle during and after.Originally Posted by hockeyguy77
take the SD with Grapefruit juice
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12-28-2005, 07:25 PM
That's damn good in such a short time. I keep hearing about people having incredible strength gains with SD - for me it was moderate at best. I may have to try againOriginally Posted by sean taylor
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12-28-2005, 08:11 PM
Originally Posted by ryansm
my point exactly....i like sd soooooo much more than m1t, m1t just feels toxic the whole time your on it, cant be good for the bod...
12-29-2005, 10:28 AM
I used SD @20 for 6 weeks and did not notice ANY side effects, except for some bloat. I did not have any blood tests done, so consider that. I do not drink and eat very clean.
I have seen some blood results done after an SD cycle and did not notice excessive liver damage. However, the lipid profile went into the tank.
When on a SD cycle I used some red rice yeast extract and continued eating my oats.
12-29-2005, 01:29 PM
I've used up to 60mgs a day of superdrol. My liver values were still normal afterwards. The hepatoxicity is somewhat overblown.
01-05-2006, 05:02 PM
I don't see how the side effects you described like insomnia make SD a "hard" drug. The OP is asking about hepatoxicity.Originally Posted by Steve325
01-05-2006, 11:51 PM
How long was the cycle? and how long afterwards was your blood work done? do you mind sharing the numerical values?Originally Posted by E-Swift25
01-06-2006, 12:10 AM
What was the reason for 60mgs of SD? Did you still see gains after 30, 40, 50??
Most people claim that after 40 the sides outweigh the gains, and the gains are marginal to boot.
01-06-2006, 07:26 AM
I myself have run a couple of SD cycles and didnt think the sides were that bad. It seems like I first thought that from the bloodwork mentioned here the hepatoxicity isnt too bad either.
It seems that this has become confused with the effects on lipids and some peoples effects with the sides so that it has become labelled as a harsh compound.
IMO SD isnt a harsh compound with limited sides but as always YMMV
01-06-2006, 07:42 AM
Folks, what about the libido and reproductive system? Yesterday, I shot a blank and that scared the **** out of me. Considering that I have been taking SD just for 3 days at 10mg dose I am really concerned if I want to go through with this or not. To the experienced users is this something y'all faced?
01-06-2006, 08:53 AM
The sides were the same, the gains were a little better than 30-40mg a day, but nothing spectacular. It almost seemed like a waste because you're not really utilizing it to its fullest. I wouldn't recommend that high just on the gains side. I wanted to see what exactly this compound could do in higher doses. I'm pretty knowledgable and experienced, so it was far from reckless.Originally Posted by BHERTZ
01-07-2006, 12:53 AM
umm I am confused you recently posted a thread "libido question".. http://anabolicminds.com/forum/anabo...-question.htmlOriginally Posted by Aravind
....which clearly stated you had some libido issues when you started SD....you should be mentioning that when you post feedback like this, its only fair..I am not saying they are related or not, or that SD didnt make you shoot a blank..but we dont need people having a heart attack here thinking they are going to shoot blanks on SD.....
and for the record I have done 2 SD cycles 3 weeks and a 6 weeker...and my libido increased on both..
01-07-2006, 03:38 AM
Good post, mate.Originally Posted by sean taylor
I did M1T and had bloodwork done a week later and was fine on all fronts. It does like most things depend on the individual.
To the person who asked about milk thistle on cycle with SD ---- hell yes, why take the risk, and from what I've read it won't effect gains.
BTW its a stupid thing to ask really -- its like saying, "I'm prepared to potentially put bigger holes in my liver to get a maybe better gain........"
01-07-2006, 12:10 PM
I doubt 3 days of anything could have that effect all by itself:Originally Posted by Aravind
I suspect a pre-existing condition.
01-07-2006, 05:47 PM
my thoughts exactly
01-07-2006, 09:22 PM
Yeah. It is my mistake for not mentioning it here. This is why I made the other more elaborate posting. I just dont think that I should be running anything now. After thinking about it I am gonna start PCT morrow( 5days of SD at 10mg) and get my body back to normal and then take it from there.
01-08-2006, 09:41 AM
I did blood on a one month 10-40mg ramp of SD and the enzymes didn't move an inch. I think it's very clean (for 99% of people) at the suggested dose. I don't even use MT on SD cycles. Of course, some react differently. I didn't even use a SERM for PCT because I didn't want to wreck my enzymes after such a clean cycle.
01-08-2006, 09:57 AM
SD gave me side effects just like M1T......at high doses. my body apparently does not need much of it. I played around with the dosing and came up with a cycle that just kicks freakin ass for me. I was doing 300mg/day 1-t <TD> and I would cycle the SD 20mg for 3 days 10mg for 2 days. The sides went WAY down but my strength and weight increased. I tried something similar with M1T (minus the 1-T) an dno matter what the dosage....I couldn't stand the sides. Nor did I have the gains as I have with SD.
As for liver toxicity.....my values are typically just out of norm anyway due to eating and training hard. But they have not really skewed from my already "abnormal" readings.
It's funny....I've been training a friend who has never done any type of AAS. He's been training for 5 months, eating properly, and making a really big change in his physique. Recently, he went in for a physical and his BUN, ALT and AST came back just out of range. The doctors of course told him that they will need to continue with more bloodwork. I told him that the only time my bloodwork came back "normal" was when I took a week's vacation, did not train, and ate bad the whole time. When I got back, I had blood drawn and everything was "normal". It just goes to show that a typical BB lifestyle makes you "abnormal".
01-08-2006, 11:25 AM
Dr.D, what do you suggest? Do I continue now that I am 5 days into cycle or do I try some other time? This being my first time I am scared and dont know if these 'percieved' symptoms are common or not.
01-08-2006, 11:55 AM
To some extent, this is to be expected. However, adding some fenugreek would be my first suggestion if you don't like the side but want to try and salvage the cycle. At 10mg/d, SD is probably one of the cleanest I can imagine, so if you can not tolerate that, I don't know how much luck you will have with anabolics in general. 100iu's of hCG EOD would likely provide a good cure too if the fen fails to work. It certainly won't hurt to go a few more days and see if the symptom remains or if it was just percieved. You will bounce within a week either way I bet. On 7-10day trial cycles, no PCT is usually required because a strong bounce occurs anyway.Originally Posted by Aravind
01-08-2006, 12:01 PM
What confuses me is so many cats using this stuff without Test.
There are plenty of orals that people wouldn't be as happy with if they didn't include the proper amount of Test, why treat SD any differently?
I just don't get it.
01-08-2006, 12:12 PM
I think some people just want to avoid using points or keep suppression to a minimum. I agree though, use a little hCG, some trans test or put 100-200mg DHEA in the mix at least.Originally Posted by mmorpheuss
01-08-2006, 10:59 PM
Thank you very much sir. Much appreciated.Originally Posted by DR.D
So I will buy some fenugreek and continue with SD for another 5 days.
01-08-2006, 11:19 PM
I might run SD again now that I'm getting back on the ball, except this time with DHEA and my HCG. The first 2 times i ran it for 3 weeks I had back pumps, loss of libido, mild case of ED, high blood pressure (better with DHEA, but still not great). When I ran dbol with with my AAS cycle I felt great alot better than SD. Might have to give it a shot with some HCG and DHEA.
01-09-2006, 11:24 PM
What's new Bo! My libido increases on SD, but only on 30-40mg. Below that, it's static (no loss though). So yeah, a little test/hCG or DHEA may be the solution. At 30-40mg, SD kicks ass, but that's when the back pumps get worse too. I lay on my back in between sets and that fixes it usually.Originally Posted by BOHICA
01-09-2006, 11:27 PM
Just the man I wanted to talk to. You got a PM coming!!Originally Posted by DR.D
01-10-2006, 12:07 PM
According to my experience and documented opinion, SD is very harsh on lipids, but just mild livertoxic.Originally Posted by oli200
m4hon is the mildest of the methylated orals, its like comparing apples to oranges. m4ohn is even milder then var.
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