promagnon-25

MuscleHead1984 · 12-27-2005, 12:30 PM

If Peak Performace labs promagnon-25 is the same as Haladrol-50 wouldn't they be selling out of it? Has anyone actually tried or know for a fact if they are the same thing? Thanks guys!

BHERTZ · 12-27-2005, 12:58 PM

Yes it is the SAME thing, just half the dose. I found it odd that the Gaspari name is not on the P-25, but oh well.

I have read that the P-25 was made in fairly limited quantities and is going for around $80/bottle.

Hope this helps...

Modoc · 12-27-2005, 02:25 PM

Peak Performance Labs? Where did they come from? They have no web site and I cannot find any info about them at all using Google. How can anyone be sure what exactly is in Promagnon?

Alpine · 12-27-2005, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modoc

Peak Performance Labs? Where did they come from? They have no web site and I cannot find any info about them at all using Google. How can anyone be sure what exactly is in Promagnon?

Guys, wake up. These seperate brands are just tools to seperate a company from possible "negative" press or associations with certain not so stable products. For instance, selling DMT (former designer steroid) directly to the public (PheraPlex lol). In these cases the company can make money but not tarnish their name/image.

Gaspari is now likely selling under another name. It appears to be the same product but at 25mg instead of 50.

Its just like Designer Supplements and Anabolic Xtreme. Hasnt anyone else noticed this? Its just smart business....

BHERTZ · 12-27-2005, 04:48 PM

Exactly, don't sweat who makes it....there is a good reason you cant find a website...gaspari is just covering his ass with this "peak performance" label

I just think its funny though, promagnon sounds awfully caveman-ish

**motiv8er** · 12-28-2005, 02:08 PM

ProMagnon 25 60 Tablets $52.99

Click to enlarge

Advanced Body Composition Altering Substrate
STRONGER THAN HALODROL!

Bio-Engineered Lean Mass, Strength, and Hardening Agent

ProMagnon-25™ is a highly effective lean mass and strength enhancing catalyst, scientifically engineered to support rapid gains in muscle strength, size, and power. Because ProMagnon-25™ cannot aromatize to estrogen, water retention (and the soft, puffy, bloated look that goes with it) is minimized. In addition to exceptional mass and strength gains, users may also notice marked increases in energy levels, endurance, libido, and lipolysis (fat loss). As with most dietary supplements, ProMagnon-25™ is intended to compliment a proper die qt and training program.

IMPORTANT: Professional and amateur athletes subject to performance enhancing substance testing should consult with their sanctioning body before using this product as use of such may cause a reactive drug test.

Supplement Facts:

Serving Size: 1 Tablet
Servings Per Container: 60

Amount Per Serving
4-chloro-17a-methyl-andro-4-ene-3, 17b-diol 25mg
Peak Performance Support Blend 505mg
(L-tyrosine, tonkat ali extract, ATP disodium, alpha lipoic acid)

Other Ingredients: dicalcium phosphate, sorbitol, croscarmelose sodium, magnesium stearate, stearic acid.

Warnings: Consult with your physician before using this product, particularly if you are taking any prescription medications. Do not take this product if you have prostate hypertrophy, liver disease, blood pressure, high cholesterol, cardiovascular disease or are being treated for any psychiatric conditions. Not for use by women.

This product was added to our catalog on Tuesday 27 December, 2005

Alright, who's feeling like a lucky tester??

meowmeow · 12-28-2005, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpine

Its the same product but at 25mg instead of 50 (per request by FDA someone said).

I very much doubt the FDA told them it was okay to sell their "steroid" at 25mg per pill but not 50mg.

**jonny21** · 12-28-2005, 02:26 PM

Sounds like a lot of Bull**** and conjecture surrounding this topic. I also doubt the FDA requested a reduced amount of steroid. But, give the sheeple what they want.

edit:
Does not even make sense from a business standpoint. Why re-release Halodrol and this new product at the same time. Something fishy going on here, imo

BHERTZ · 12-28-2005, 04:39 PM

As far as I can tell (IMO) halodrol is 50mg of a methylated product...that just doesnt seem right. i mean think about it - 50mg of SD or M1T is unheard of.

Gaspari probably realized he was promoting death in a bottle, and decided to phase out H-50 (notice you can only find it for $100+) and introduce P-25 under some weird pseudo name...that way the buzz about H-50 is still alive but in a safer product...let's find some guinea pigs now haha

turkish · 12-28-2005, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHERTZ

As far as I can tell (IMO) halodrol is 50mg of a methylated product...that just doesnt seem right. i mean think about it - 50mg of SD or M1T is unheard of.

Gaspari probably realized he was promoting death in a bottle, and decided to phase out H-50 (notice you can only find it for $100+) and introduce P-25 under some weird pseudo name...that way the buzz about H-50 is still alive but in a safer product...let's find some guinea pigs now haha

As BK previously stated and Big Cat agreed, H-50 is way less toxic than SD, so your comparison is kinda biased.

**jonny21** · 12-28-2005, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHERTZ

As far as I can tell (IMO) halodrol is 50mg of a methylated product...that just doesnt seem right. i mean think about it - 50mg of SD or M1T is unheard of.

Gaspari probably realized he was promoting death in a bottle, and decided to phase out H-50 (notice you can only find it for $100+) and introduce P-25 under some weird pseudo name...that way the buzz about H-50 is still alive but in a safer product...let's find some guinea pigs now haha

Halodrol not Promagnon is on presale @ board sponsors now for <$100 if I am not mistaken. What's the difference between taking 2-25mg tabs or 1-50mg tabs? The halodrol tabs were scored for easy splitting. I think the logic regarding the decrease in dosage is off a bit. And by the way, taking 50mg of methylated AAS is commonplace.

Alpine · 12-28-2005, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meowmeow

I very much doubt the FDA told them it was okay to sell their "steroid" at 25mg per pill but not 50mg.

I agree, and that much would seem quite obvous. I was basically referring to a post by sly on the subject.

Quote:

Promagnon-25 by Gaspari
Just like Halodrol-50 only half the dosage (Due to the FDA!)
Not too much info on this one yet... Gaspari is telling us that Promagnon-25 is the exact same thing as Halodrol-50 only in half the dosage as to comply with the FDA.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/419751-post3.html

Alpine · 12-28-2005, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHERTZ

As far as I can tell (IMO) halodrol is 50mg of a methylated product...that just doesnt seem right. i mean think about it - 50mg of SD or M1T is unheard of.

Gaspari probably realized he was promoting death in a bottle, and decided to phase out H-50 (notice you can only find it for $100+) and introduce P-25 under some weird pseudo name...that way the buzz about H-50 is still alive but in a safer product...let's find some guinea pigs now haha

Ya, youre way off. The main reason he pulled the product was all the negative press and articles (Washington Post) regarding H-50. It got a lot of bad attention right out of the gate. It has nothing to do with the saftey. This is basically OT. SD would be far worse in terms of sides from what I have seen and from what other better qualified "gurus" have said regarding it. The naming Gaspari chose has really given some folks a bad (misguided) impression of this product. This could be another factor that led to the new product design.

BHERTZ · 12-28-2005, 10:34 PM

Since when is 50mg of any oral, methylated product "commonplace"? i.e. - the threads about people getting jaundice and hospital treatment after they took just 40mg of SD for a full cycle. Just curious...

BHERTZ · 12-28-2005, 10:35 PM

I do agree though, H-50 got dumped on right off the bat by the press. We all read the stories.

Let's just hope P-25 makes up for his lost sales...I am curious as to what's behind the FDA comment though that was released.

3clipseGT · 12-28-2005, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHERTZ

Since when is 50mg of any oral, methylated product "commonplace"? i.e. - the threads about people getting jaundice and hospital treatment after they took just 40mg of SD for a full cycle. Just curious...

Ive taken up to 40mgs of SD and never had any problems. You also have no case when you say 50mgs for a methylated product is not commonplace because MDHT can be dosed very high. I used it a 100mgs as did Glenihan i beleive. What about M1,4add? People and i myself have used upwords of 230 or more mgs. Thats WAAYYY over 50mgs. Also Oral Turinabol is not as harsh on the liver as M1T or SD, and i bet some people will use HD-50 at 100mgs or so to test it out.

No offense but ur post is not of good info as ur way off base bro. Not trying to be a **** just stating some facts.

BHERTZ · 12-28-2005, 11:09 PM

None taken....just trying to pry info out of you guys, and I stand corrected. However, I would never take 50mg of M1T, I have always limited it to 15mg in past cycles. If this is too cautious just say so...Anyway wasn't this thread about P-25?

haha

3clipseGT · 12-28-2005, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHERTZ

None taken....just trying to pry info out of you guys, and I stand corrected. However, I would never take 50mg of M1T, I have always limited it to 15mg in past cycles. If this is too cautious just say so...Anyway wasn't this thread about P-25?

haha

Hey bro its all good man, all good. I never even went that high on M1T but never really used it that much honestly. SD on the other hand just wasnt something i responded to well so i had to up the dosage quite a bit. 15 mgs is good id say. 50Mgs of M1T would be liver poison and jaundice in a bottle probly!

**jonny21** · 12-29-2005, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHERTZ

Since when is 50mg of any oral, methylated product "commonplace"? i.e. - the threads about people getting jaundice and hospital treatment after they took just 40mg of SD for a full cycle. Just curious...

Let's talk about common dosages for oral AAS:
Winstrol/Stanazol--50-100mg/daily
Anavar: 20-50mg/day, I've heard people take more
Anadrol:50--150mg/day
Dianabol: 15-50mg/day
OT: 50mg+/day
Since when? How does the 1970's sound?

I have yet to see a thread where someone had liver issues to the extent that you mention. I have seen logs where people have had slight elevations in liver enzymes taking up to 40mg/day.

E-Swift25 · 12-29-2005, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHERTZ

None taken....just trying to pry info out of you guys, and I stand corrected. However, I would never take 50mg of M1T, I have always limited it to 15mg in past cycles. If this is too cautious just say so...Anyway wasn't this thread about P-25?

haha

In my opinion, yes that's being too cautious. That's just me though. Personally, I would feel like I'm cheating myself if I used such a low dose. There's nothing wrong with using that dose because safety is important. I just feel you could reasonly up the dose with minimal risk. For me, 30mg was always a solid dosage with low sides.

wormwood · 12-29-2005, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpine

Guys, wake up. These seperate brands are just tools to seperate a company from possible "negative" press or associations with certain not so stable products. For instance, selling DMT (designer steroid) directly to the public lol. In these cases the company can make money but not tarnish their name/image.

Gaspari is now selling under another name. Its the same product but at 25mg instead of 50 (per request by FDA someone said).

Its just like Designer Supplements and Anabolic Xtreme. Hasnt anyone else noticed this? Its just smart business....

i think you should take down this post before shipley gets wind of this. if more people have questions we can just pm them.

**BodyWizard** · 12-29-2005, 05:27 PM

hasn't she been scrubbed?

BHERTZ · 12-29-2005, 06:33 PM

for everyone who insists on beating a dead horse (i.e. naming every possible old school 'real' cycle >50mg) please calm down...

the basis for my f-ing comment was to try and promote some sort of safety with these NEW "LEGAL" DESIGNER ORALS....if you have a disposable prostate, and liver then good for you.

thats all, i wish this thread would get back to P-25, and whether or not its even a good deal, if anyone has yet to purchase a bottle, etc....

**jonny21** · 12-29-2005, 06:46 PM

I'll assume you were refering to my post. First take a look back sport and it would appear that your remarks caused this silly little tangent. Second if you are going to make it sound like you know what you are talking about at least do a little research to get some background info. Third, apply a little common sense and arithmetic to find if it is a good deal.
60X25=1500mg Promagnon
30X50=1500mg Halodrol
Whichever one is cheaper is the better deal.

bearmeat · 12-30-2005, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHERTZ

Yes it is the SAME thing, just half the dose. I found it odd that the Gaspari name is not on the P-25, but oh well.

I have read that the P-25 was made in fairly limited quantities and is going for around $80/bottle.

Hope this helps...

Apparently it is NOT the exact same thing. Bruce Kneller and Bill Llewellyn both have said it is not the same chemically (you can decide whether you can take their word for it). You can compare the two actives yourself.

ProMagnon-25: 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-4-ene-3,17b-diol

Halodrol-50: 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3,17b-diol

Bill on BB.com: If that chemical name is correct, it is not the same thing as Halodrol. This lacks a 1-ene. It is a precursor to 4-chloromethyltestosterone (a methylated derrivative of Clostebol/Megagrisevit Mono) instead.

Bruce on BB.com: The PPL product is the 4-halogenated precursor to 4-chloro-methyltestosterone while the GN product is the 4-halogenated precursor to Oral Turinabol.

Alpine · 12-30-2005, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearmeat

Apparently it is NOT the exact same thing. Bruce Kneller and Bill Llewellyn both have said it is not the same chemically (you can decide whether you can take their word for it). You can compare the two actives yourself.

ProMagnon-25: 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-4-ene-3,17b-diol

Halodrol-50: 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3,17b-diol

Bill on BB.com: If that chemical name is correct, it is not the same thing as Halodrol. This lacks a 1-ene. It is a precursor to 4-chloromethyltestosterone (a methylated derrivative of Clostebol/Megagrisevit Mono) instead.

Bruce on BB.com: The PPL product is the 4-halogenated precursor to 4-chloro-methyltestosterone while the GN product is the 4-halogenated precursor to Oral Turinabol.

I just looked at BK's posts on BB.com also. It looks like they did change the active. It was easily overlooked because the structure name was very similair.

P-25 is actually Megagrisevit Mono (aka clostebol) but methylated. BigCat did a write up on MegaMo but you have to remember this isnt the Exact same compound. It could be much different since its a methyl.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catmega.htm
Methylation can alter how certain compounds behave. Still, this product is much less exciting since it's not a direct precursor to OT. 25mg of 4-chloro-methyltestosterone is much less appealing than 50mg of the previous compound (even if it had some DMT in it).

All in all its a fairly close alternative. BK himself has this to say on the comparison.

Quote:

Depends on what you want. "Better" is subjective. 4-chloromethyltestosterone is a pretty good product that is a little more androgenic and less anabolic than the OT precursor. My opinion is that 4-CMT has a better neurological/psychological effect than 4CDBOL does. The difference between the two is not huge, but it could be the difference some people need. I'd expect more aggression, and "test-like" effects from 4-CMT.

It's like asking, what is a "better steroid", testosterone or dianabol? Both have their uses and both are pretty darn good.

Big Cat and I do not agree on some things and that's fine. He is entitled to his opinion - he may not me wrong or maybe he is. Only time will bear the truth to this. I do appreciate Big Cats insights though and he is knowledgable about these things but remember, there's more than one way to skin a cat (e.g. "look at the data").

BK

**jonny21** · 12-30-2005, 04:02 PM

so I guess the real question now is "who is peak performance labs?"

It didn't make any sense that Gaspari would allow another company to cut into his revenue.

Alpine · 12-30-2005, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonny21

so I guess the real question now is "who is peak performance labs?"

It didn't make any sense that Gaspari would allow another company to cut into his revenue.

you just answered your own question...

BHERTZ · 12-30-2005, 06:12 PM

Great find. So in everyone's opinion with the active ingredient in P-25 being shown to have 1 less double bond, is halo the better product, or does it become inferior?

I guess the price would affect this as well, but let's just say cost-aside, bottle for bottle, what would be more desirable? I assume P-25's affects might be hard to justify because it's chemical cousin in Big Cat's write-up[listed in Alpine's thread] got fairly poor reviews??

i.e.-
This steroid is understandably weak and with little to offer to a serious user of anabolic steroids. Although it does offer us a form of testosterone that is perfectly fine to use under all circumstances when cutting. Its not a very userfriendly drug however.

Building on this, can anyone comment on how severe the methylation modification can make (namely in the 4-CMT vs. P-25 example)?? Increased sides above and beyond basic 4-CMT?

**jonny21** · 12-30-2005, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpine

you just answered your own question...

Are you implying that Gaspari decided to come out with a different product that "appears" similar to Halodrol at the same time he was re-releasing Halodrol?

I could be wrong but it just doesn't sound right. People have been refering to SD and how DS sold to AX But is not the same situation. DS stopped selling SD. I would need some evidence that Gaspari & PPL are linked other than assuming it and calling it fact. Especially when those saying it have no credibility whatsoever.

By the way, I have a bridge to sell. Just walking over it once and you will put on 10lbs of LBM.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...6&postcount=25

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...2&postcount=27