MuscleHead1984
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If Peak Performace labs promagnon-25 is the same as Haladrol-50 wouldn't they be selling out of it? Has anyone actually tried or know for a fact if they are the same thing? Thanks guys!
Peak Performance Labs? Where did they come from? They have no web site and I cannot find any info about them at all using Google. How can anyone be sure what exactly is in Promagnon?
I very much doubt the FDA told them it was okay to sell their "steroid" at 25mg per pill but not 50mg.Its the same product but at 25mg instead of 50 (per request by FDA someone said).
As BK previously stated and Big Cat agreed, H-50 is way less toxic than SD, so your comparison is kinda biased.As far as I can tell (IMO) halodrol is 50mg of a methylated product...that just doesnt seem right. i mean think about it - 50mg of SD or M1T is unheard of.
Gaspari probably realized he was promoting death in a bottle, and decided to phase out H-50 (notice you can only find it for $100+) and introduce P-25 under some weird pseudo name...that way the buzz about H-50 is still alive but in a safer product...let's find some guinea pigs now haha
Halodrol not Promagnon is on presale @ board sponsors now for <$100 if I am not mistaken. What's the difference between taking 2-25mg tabs or 1-50mg tabs? The halodrol tabs were scored for easy splitting. I think the logic regarding the decrease in dosage is off a bit. And by the way, taking 50mg of methylated AAS is commonplace.As far as I can tell (IMO) halodrol is 50mg of a methylated product...that just doesnt seem right. i mean think about it - 50mg of SD or M1T is unheard of.
Gaspari probably realized he was promoting death in a bottle, and decided to phase out H-50 (notice you can only find it for $100+) and introduce P-25 under some weird pseudo name...that way the buzz about H-50 is still alive but in a safer product...let's find some guinea pigs now haha
I agree, and that much would seem quite obvous. I was basically referring to a post by sly on the subject.I very much doubt the FDA told them it was okay to sell their "steroid" at 25mg per pill but not 50mg.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/419751-post3.htmlPromagnon-25 by Gaspari
Just like Halodrol-50 only half the dosage (Due to the FDA!)
Not too much info on this one yet... Gaspari is telling us that Promagnon-25 is the exact same thing as Halodrol-50 only in half the dosage as to comply with the FDA.
Ya, youre way off. The main reason he pulled the product was all the negative press and articles (Washington Post) regarding H-50. It got a lot of bad attention right out of the gate. It has nothing to do with the saftey. This is basically OT. SD would be far worse in terms of sides from what I have seen and from what other better qualified "gurus" have said regarding it. The naming Gaspari chose has really given some folks a bad (misguided) impression of this product. This could be another factor that led to the new product design.As far as I can tell (IMO) halodrol is 50mg of a methylated product...that just doesnt seem right. i mean think about it - 50mg of SD or M1T is unheard of.
Gaspari probably realized he was promoting death in a bottle, and decided to phase out H-50 (notice you can only find it for $100+) and introduce P-25 under some weird pseudo name...that way the buzz about H-50 is still alive but in a safer product...let's find some guinea pigs now haha
Ive taken up to 40mgs of SD and never had any problems. You also have no case when you say 50mgs for a methylated product is not commonplace because MDHT can be dosed very high. I used it a 100mgs as did Glenihan i beleive. What about M1,4add? People and i myself have used upwords of 230 or more mgs. Thats WAAYYY over 50mgs. Also Oral Turinabol is not as harsh on the liver as M1T or SD, and i bet some people will use HD-50 at 100mgs or so to test it out.Since when is 50mg of any oral, methylated product "commonplace"? i.e. - the threads about people getting jaundice and hospital treatment after they took just 40mg of SD for a full cycle. Just curious...
Hey bro its all good man, all good. I never even went that high on M1T but never really used it that much honestly. SD on the other hand just wasnt something i responded to well so i had to up the dosage quite a bit. 15 mgs is good id say. 50Mgs of M1T would be liver poison and jaundice in a bottle probly!None taken....just trying to pry info out of you guys, and I stand corrected. However, I would never take 50mg of M1T, I have always limited it to 15mg in past cycles. If this is too cautious just say so...Anyway wasn't this thread about P-25? :run: haha
Let's talk about common dosages for oral AAS:Since when is 50mg of any oral, methylated product "commonplace"? i.e. - the threads about people getting jaundice and hospital treatment after they took just 40mg of SD for a full cycle. Just curious...
In my opinion, yes that's being too cautious. That's just me though. Personally, I would feel like I'm cheating myself if I used such a low dose. There's nothing wrong with using that dose because safety is important. I just feel you could reasonly up the dose with minimal risk. For me, 30mg was always a solid dosage with low sides.None taken....just trying to pry info out of you guys, and I stand corrected. However, I would never take 50mg of M1T, I have always limited it to 15mg in past cycles. If this is too cautious just say so...Anyway wasn't this thread about P-25? :run: haha
i think you should take down this post before shipley gets wind of this. if more people have questions we can just pm them.Guys, wake up. These seperate brands are just tools to seperate a company from possible "negative" press or associations with certain not so stable products. For instance, selling DMT (designer steroid) directly to the public lol. In these cases the company can make money but not tarnish their name/image.
Gaspari is now selling under another name. Its the same product but at 25mg instead of 50 (per request by FDA someone said).
Its just like Designer Supplements and Anabolic Xtreme. Hasnt anyone else noticed this? Its just smart business....
Apparently it is NOT the exact same thing. Bruce Kneller and Bill Llewellyn both have said it is not the same chemically (you can decide whether you can take their word for it). You can compare the two actives yourself.Yes it is the SAME thing, just half the dose. I found it odd that the Gaspari name is not on the P-25, but oh well.
I have read that the P-25 was made in fairly limited quantities and is going for around $80/bottle.
Hope this helps...
I just looked at BK's posts on BB.com also. It looks like they did change the active. It was easily overlooked because the structure name was very similair.Apparently it is NOT the exact same thing. Bruce Kneller and Bill Llewellyn both have said it is not the same chemically (you can decide whether you can take their word for it). You can compare the two actives yourself.
ProMagnon-25: 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-4-ene-3,17b-diol
Halodrol-50: 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3,17b-diol
Bill on BB.com: If that chemical name is correct, it is not the same thing as Halodrol. This lacks a 1-ene. It is a precursor to 4-chloromethyltestosterone (a methylated derrivative of Clostebol/Megagrisevit Mono) instead.
Bruce on BB.com: The PPL product is the 4-halogenated precursor to 4-chloro-methyltestosterone while the GN product is the 4-halogenated precursor to Oral Turinabol.
Depends on what you want. "Better" is subjective. 4-chloromethyltestosterone is a pretty good product that is a little more androgenic and less anabolic than the OT precursor. My opinion is that 4-CMT has a better neurological/psychological effect than 4CDBOL does. The difference between the two is not huge, but it could be the difference some people need. I'd expect more aggression, and "test-like" effects from 4-CMT.
It's like asking, what is a "better steroid", testosterone or dianabol? Both have their uses and both are pretty darn good.
Big Cat and I do not agree on some things and that's fine. He is entitled to his opinion - he may not me wrong or maybe he is. Only time will bear the truth to this. I do appreciate Big Cats insights though and he is knowledgable about these things but remember, there's more than one way to skin a cat (e.g. "look at the data").
BK
you just answered your own question...so I guess the real question now is "who is peak performance labs?"
It didn't make any sense that Gaspari would allow another company to cut into his revenue.
Are you implying that Gaspari decided to come out with a different product that "appears" similar to Halodrol at the same time he was re-releasing Halodrol?you just answered your own question...
According to what Bruce Kneller said I would 'guess' its about like HD-50 but slightly more androgenic and thus could be considered a little more powerful. It's a close substitute from the look of things.Great find. So in everyone's opinion with the active ingredient in P-25 being shown to have 1 less double bond, is halo the better product, or does it become inferior?
I guess the price would affect this as well, but let's just say cost-aside, bottle for bottle, what would be more desirable? I assume P-25's affects might be hard to justify because it's chemical cousin in Big Cat's write-up[listed in Alpine's thread] got fairly poor reviews??
i.e.-
This steroid is understandably weak and with little to offer to a serious user of anabolic steroids. Although it does offer us a form of testosterone that is perfectly fine to use under all circumstances when cutting. Its not a very userfriendly drug however.
Building on this, can anyone comment on how severe the methylation modification can make (namely in the 4-CMT vs. P-25 example)?? Increased sides above and beyond basic 4-CMT?
It's been understood for some 18 months (that I know of) that:...[C]an anyone comment on how severe the methylation modification can make (namely in the 4-CMT vs. P-25 example)?? Increased sides above and beyond basic 4-CMT?
I suppose it is a bit reckless to call Gaspari and PPL one in the same. However, all you need to do is look at the posts and it becomes clear. Although Gaspari and PPL may not be officially linked some things seem a little odd. The common denominator seems to be Bruce Kneller who we know has been associated with Gaspari in the past. He’s all over BB.com talking about P-25 and promoting it. It’s not very hard to see he has something to gain by its acceptance and success. I’m not saying PPL and Gaspari are truly one in the same but it’s easy to see where the formulation(s) may be originating from.Are you implying that Gaspari decided to come out with a different product that "appears" similar to Halodrol at the same time he was re-releasing Halodrol?
I could be wrong but it just doesn't sound right. People have been refering to SD and how DS sold to AX But is not the same situation. DS stopped selling SD. I would need some evidence that Gaspari & PPL are linked other than assuming it and calling it fact. Especially when those saying it have no credibility whatsoever.
By the way, I have a bridge to sell. Just walking over it once and you will put on 10lbs of LBM.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=8195506&postcount=25
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=8197902&postcount=27
/me puts on his tinfoil hat...I think you might need to seek professional help. Your posts are borderline delusional. BK is not promoting it he is clarifying the difference between the two. It's even mentioned that it would be a weak comparison to Halodrol if any. Stop looking for dots and trying to connect them. There are none.
I would think this sound like a more realistic scenario/timeline:
-Halodrol released under great scrutiny, all are doubtful.
-BK announces what it is, most invest
-Wow, the **** works; everyone and there mother buys it.
- bad press & rumors, production stops.
- e-bay sales >$100/box.
-what do you know, halodrol will bere-released
- PPL after seeing an opportunity figures what the f**k we will say it is the same chemical as Halodrol just less of a dose because the FDA asked us to lower the dose of prohormone, and they know the sheeple will buy it without even thinking.
- Sheeple then begin to believe the hype and make various posts on various forums reporting unsubstantiated bullshit.
I think this sounds a bit more realistic.
Fell behind yet again? Maybe you should reread this whole thread. From what I see you and the other guy have been talking complete nonsense, bullshit & conjecture the whole time. It's probably a reading issue since it appears you only can see what you want to see. I know they are different chemicals that why I wrote "- PPL after seeing an opportunity figures what the f**k we will say it is the same chemical as Halodrol just less of a dose because the FDA asked us to lower the dose of prohormone, and they know the sheeple will buy it without even thinking. " It appears that you are one of the sheeple that believed this bullshit. Hook, line & sinker. Maybe you should leave the thinking up to those better suited./me puts on his tinfoil hat...
your post is wrong. you fell behind yet again. its not the same compound. its a new one no other supplement company has even used yet (i think). this new unknown company came out of thin air to release a brand new prohormone resembling halodrol (from a marketing perspective). I just find it all a little too fishy. Then again, i could just be bored.
oh, btw jonny21 - Troll'D
Exactly... It doesnt seem so convoluted to me. I was being told I needed to seek medical help lol.Well, I have no idea who Peak Performance Labs are but it is odd to see the Gaspari reps on the board answering questions comparing and contrasting with Halodrol. If promagnon truly had nothing to do with them, I'd assume they would be shrugging their shoulders and advising people to stay away from this "knock-off" being produced by an unknown company.
My guess (AND IT'S JUST A GUESS) is that some people associated with Gaspari set-up a stand alone company (that is essentially disposable) to get this product out the door and not draw more attention to themselves. This is an approach I actually advised another company to take rather than walk away from product they had in the pipeline.
Ownership of the company shouldn't be hard to divine. It must have a business license in the state which it is headquartered and such documents are available to the public. The business license will identify the corporate officers and registered agents unless they got real sophisticated and ran things through trusts and other front entities.
Everyone remembers the product that ALRI was going to put out right before there methoxy tren correct???
The DBOL that didnt aromatase
My guess is they set this one up under this company
same compound they were refering to!!!
Interesting......different address and phone number listed on the bottle and that listed on the website.....and the website says it is a corporation (inc) while the label info identifies it as a Limited Liability Corporation (LLC). The phone number is unlisted.Ok kids I have a bottle of this in hand. Here is the info listed on the label for PPL...
Peak Performance Laboratories, LLC.
Merrick, NY 11566
1-877-358-PEAK (7325)
www.PeakPerformanceusa.com
Check out the web page - It looks like the site of some mom & pop fitness center, no mention of PPL or Promagnon. And no, the website is not a typo, that's exactly what is listed on the bottle.
dude you are like the anabolic mind's gumshoe. excellent detective work!
still doesnt say much on behalf of PPL...
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