gyno out of nowhere!!

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    gyno out of nowhere!!


    I finished up a 4 wk cycle of SD, followed by 4 weeks of RXT about a month ago. I saw appreciable gains and had absolutely no sides while on cycle. However, over the past week or so I have developed some significant gyno in both nipples, which is really starting to freak me out. I don't know where it could be coming from, especially since my cycle had ended several weeks before. My dosages for everything were as follows:

    SD: wk 1-10mg
    wk 2-20mg
    wk 3-20mg
    wk 4-20mg

    RXT: 10 days-75mg
    10 days-50mg
    10 days-25mg

    I started taking RXT again yesterday at 50mgs/day to try and prevent any more growth or irritation, but I wanted to get some opinions, or others exeriences regarding this situation. Much thanks!!

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    if RXT is the only thing you used for PCT, I'm not suprised in any way/shape/form.
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    3 week PCT for 4 week cycle tsk tsk. Order some Nolva, 60 mg/day should help. Continue to run the rebound after the Nolva to prevent any rebound.

    For future keep Nolva around, especially since it appears you are prone gyno. Unless you like the "bitch tits" look. Although some have had no issue with just RXT others have had issue. Nolva, although use not seemed necessary by some should be a stock item in your medicine cabinet nevertheless.
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    2nd on the nolva. Board sponsers carry it. IT IS A MUST IF YOU USE ANDROGENS. Sorry bout the caps. Never an exception in my book. You never know when you use androgens how your body may recover. Even from the least suppressive cycles.
    My The 1 LOG: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/254164-my-one-log.html
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    60mg/day of nolva like jonny said, or get some raloxifene and run it at 120-180mg/day.
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    I had the same thing occur with SD, using Tamox & RXT as PCT. I'm not the only one either to experience this "delayed gyno."

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-...ge-sd-pct.html
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    Rebound is great, but why anyone would not use Nolva is beyond me. It's tried and true, and cheap to boot.
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    These delayed gyno cases are a bit scary. I'm trying to find a common thread between them all, but it's tough.
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    I recently did a SD/PP cycle. During the 3rd week i started devolping gyno (sensitive nips mostly). It took 2.5 weeks of nolva at 60mg ED to get rid of it. I am almost done with PCT. These delayed gyno cases are making me a bit nervous also, considering im prone.
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    I don't know if I'm prone to it or not, but it's making me think that Im going to get the woman-boobs if i take SD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xboom
    I don't know if I'm prone to it or not, but it's making me think that Im going to get the woman-boobs if i take SD
    I wouldnt take that approach. If you know your body and are aware of the signs. You should be fine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xboom
    I don't know if I'm prone to it or not, but it's making me think that Im going to get the woman-boobs if i take SD
    If you have never used Nolva. You should, it works.It is somewhat heptatoxic,but it works very quickly and you don't need to stay on it for a long time.I like to use it once a year atleast as I find it takes care of some residual tissue that has developed over the years. I wish I could give it to old guys on the beach.Its your choice pops the Tee-shirt or the Nolva.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mass_69
    I had the same thing occur with SD, using Tamox & RXT as PCT. I'm not the only one either to experience this "delayed gyno."

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-...ge-sd-pct.html
    I started that.

    I don't have a terribly large amount of experience with anabolics; I did a small cycle of cyclo 1-T, several of cyclo 4AD and a couple of SD mini cycles. The SD of course worked best of all. Dr D pointed out that this might be a simple general effect of anabolics and PCT. Perhaps the fact that SD works so damned well compared to all the other prohormones out there (and most of the "real juice") might account for all this.

    Maybe some people with a lot of experience with other very strong anabolics can comment on the idea of "ringing PCT."
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    I hate to say it but I can't believe anyone would do a cycle without nolva at hand - its stressed in almost all the pct literature on superdrol.

    Hope you don't have to learn too much the hard way but - no offence - learn more before your next cycle.
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    I'm cuurently running a SD/Prostan cycle along with Novedex XT as a preemptive strike against gyno....why don't more people run an ATD while on to avoid gyno all together. I am not prones to gyno but I always run an anti-e while on....just wondering.
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    ran a 4 week M1T/4ad cycle with 4 weeks of nolva as PCT and a week after PCT I started to get alittle gyno. I had been drinking and doing alot of partying and am wondering if this may have led to the problem??
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21
    3 week PCT for 4 week cycle tsk tsk. Order some Nolva, 60 mg/day should help. Continue to run the rebound after the Nolva to prevent any rebound.

    For future keep Nolva around, especially since it appears you are prone gyno. Unless you like the "bitch tits" look. Although some have had no issue with just RXT others have had issue. Nolva, although use not seemed necessary by some should be a stock item in your medicine cabinet nevertheless.
    60mg i feel is a little low. it took me 80 to get rid of signs of gyno...may even want to do 100mg for the first couple days. spread the doses out.
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    I'm cuurently running a SD/Prostan cycle along with Novedex XT as a preemptive strike against gyno....why don't more people run an ATD while on to avoid gyno all together. I am not prones to gyno but I always run an anti-e while on....just wondering.
    I dont know - some people believe that's its better to see how your body reacts to the estrogens first before you go an inhibiting them. The theory being its better to control the estrogen rather than completely suppress it. It does contribute somewhat to gains, but personally I would err on the side of caution and start the anti-E as soon as the sides become unpleasant.

    To keep estrogen at bay during a cycle, I'd use an anti-aromatase. Always have Nolva on hand, and incorporate it if gyno symptoms appear.

    BV
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    Hear ya on the nolva and I got it. I will continute with the novedex cuz many friends have done so and had better than average success with this cycle. Lost a lot of water weight while they were on. But I got the nolva in case and for PCT
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21
    3 week PCT for 4 week cycle tsk tsk. Order some Nolva, 60 mg/day should help. Continue to run the rebound after the Nolva to prevent any rebound.

    For future keep Nolva around, especially since it appears you are prone gyno. Unless you like the "bitch tits" look. Although some have had no issue with just RXT others have had issue. Nolva, although use not seemed necessary by some should be a stock item in your medicine cabinet nevertheless.
    Jonny,
    Do you happen to know the shelf life of Nova in its liquid form? I will be buying some and want to know how long it will keep. Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cracker2
    Jonny,
    Do you happen to know the shelf life of Nova in its liquid form? I will be buying some and want to know how long it will keep. Thanks.
    I would figure the standard 1 year as with most prescription meds.

    Possibly longer, but do you really want to risk it?
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21
    I would figure the standard 1 year as with most prescription meds.

    Possibly longer, but do you really want to risk it?
    Thanks for the help. I will only buy what I need and should I need more I will make a purchase then. I dont plan on needing it more than once this year. Again, thanks for the help.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21
    I would figure the standard 1 year as with most prescription meds.

    Possibly longer, but do you really want to risk it?
    Jonny,
    I purchased the liquid in the past for research purposes but neither of the places I bought at before can be found. Has the liquid form been banned? Can anyone point me in the right direction?

    Thanks in advance.
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    Board sponsers might be a place to look..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew D
    Board sponsers might be a place to look..
    I am looking thru them now. Thanks.
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    Regarding the "delayed gyno" phenomenon that some are experiencing, here's my theory:

    After the SD cycle, suppression of natural Test production occurs. During the PCT phase, Tamox helps restore natural test production and brings back the boys (so to speak). Instead of a slow steady increase in natural Test, for some reason it's more of a sharp and sudden increase about a month after the cycle!?! Unfortunately, the excess natural Test aromatizes into estrogen and raises the E levels suddenly. Could this be it?


    Maybe because SD stays in the system a good 10-plus days after taking the last pill, a much longer PCT is needed? Perhaps a 6-week PCT is needed after a SD cycle?

    Just brainstorming a little....

    - WG
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    Dr.D's comments in this thread were very insightful.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mass_69
    I had the same thing occur with SD, using Tamox & RXT as PCT. I'm not the only one either to experience this "delayed gyno."

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-...ge-sd-pct.html
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    some interesting info posted on bb.com. still a new thread so keep watch.....

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=665281
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    Wow, the common denominator for guys in this thread seems to be using Nolva AND an AI (like Rebound XT or others). Why would you use both? Theoretically, one could argue that Nolva should be used only if needed after an SD cycle (that is what Dr D. has done). Most run Nolva just as a precaution.

    I have read about gyno problems after AI-only cycles. Here is what Big Cat said in the BB.com thread:

    "The reason is BECAUSE everyone used an AI. Aromatase inhibition leads to upregulation of both the aromatase enzyme and the estrogen receptor. This causes increased substrate due to higher aromatization and increased sensitivity. Combine that with less heterodimer inhibition from decreased androgen as a result of HPTA inhibition, and increased aromatization.

    This is the reason I have been advising AGAINST the use of AI's for the last 6 years now, as a preventive measure and ESPECIALLY during PCT.

    Delayed gyno is actually a common problem for people who use improper PCT on any kind of cycle, and many bodybuilders who cycle frequently notice increased estrogen sensitivity with repetitive AI use.

    So postulate all you want, I say blame the idiot that started this AI for PCT crap in order to sell OTC AI's..."

    Quote Originally Posted by VVickeD
    some interesting info posted on bb.com. still a new thread so keep watch.....

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=665281
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    actually the common denominator seems to be an AI
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    Quote Originally Posted by WheyGood
    I have read about gyno problems after AI-only cycles. Here is what Big Cat said in the BB.com thread:

    "The reason is BECAUSE everyone used an AI. Aromatase inhibition leads to upregulation of both the aromatase enzyme and the estrogen receptor. This causes increased substrate due to higher aromatization and increased sensitivity. Combine that with less heterodimer inhibition from decreased androgen as a result of HPTA inhibition, and increased aromatization.

    This is the reason I have been advising AGAINST the use of AI's for the last 6 years now, as a preventive measure and ESPECIALLY during PCT.

    Delayed gyno is actually a common problem for people who use improper PCT on any kind of cycle, and many bodybuilders who cycle frequently notice increased estrogen sensitivity with repetitive AI use.

    So postulate all you want, I say blame the idiot that started this AI for PCT crap in order to sell OTC AI's..."
    For me, the AI (ATD in this case) brought the "boys" back much quicker.

    Dr. D mentioned in another thread (http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-...verse-adt.html) that steriodal AIs like ATD do not experience the aromatase rebound effect that non-steroidal AIs do because they act as false substrates for aromatase, rather than being competitive inhibitors of it.

    I have found good info from Big Cat in the past, but some of the stuff he says nowadays, I'm not always sure.
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    same thing happened to me as the thread starter. i had gyno develop a month after finishing pct. my pct consisted of nolva for about a week and rebound xt for 4 weeks. i followed a pct regime on bb.com from ironpimper or someone. not sure if that had anythign to do with my problem now. I did get bloodwork done rougly 2-1 weeks after pct and i was a very healthy person and my hormones were in check. Reguardless of my hormones i have a gyno lump under my right nip now and i have no idea why. im going to try and get rid of it.. would i be stupid to do anther cycle dosing nolva during and then just do a really strong pct at the end ?


    the cycle would consist of ergomax which i had no problems with, and pct would go for like 6 weeks with heavy nolva and rxt and definatly no SD!!!, im staying away from that stuff now
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    Weird, well Im glad I always continue to run Nolva for 1-2 weeks after stopping the AI. I havent had any issues yet.

    SD seems to be very androgenetic and harsh. I will be staying away.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KD1

    SD seems to be very androgenetic and harsh. I will be staying away.
    My experience has shown that SD is more anabolic and minimally androgenic in my body. And to date I have not seen bloodwork that suggests SD is harsh on anything except Lipids as is other oral AAS. Back pumps were also part of my experience.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
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    Just started SD 2 days ago. I have rebound xt milkthistle all that good stuff for pct. what should i do? drop the rebound and go with nolva for pct?
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    That or buy a bra.

    Rebound is not going to replace Nolva for keeping the gyno away. If you dont have it on hand you should get some asap.
  

  
 

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