Are people that take prohoromones stupid?
- 12-10-2005, 08:40 PM
Are people that take prohoromones stupid?
If one were to have access to both steroids and prohormones wouldn't it be foolish to take the latter?
I am convinced that injecting sustanon and using a 1-test dermal is a much safer and effective option than one of these fly by night designer orals (halodrol,PP,sd).
I have officially decided to ditch the idea of using these new designer orals and use the real thing.
One more thing, everyone is so concerned with their liver values but have they ever got their liver values tested after a dinking binge? They probabaly look worse.
- 12-10-2005, 08:50 PM
There are a handful of compounds in the PH categorey..that are really bona fide steroids but whatever.. that are really effective and worth getting..SD. But all in all, I side with you, I'd rather have access to test prop, nandrolone, tren and maybe throw on some 1 test than to play with halodrol, PP, and all these others.
I can't even keep up with them, they're coming out so fast and ending production just as fast.
- 12-10-2005, 09:36 PM
All things equal....
Yeah, legality and sometimes price is the only benefit to the current batch of OTC PH/Steroids.
Not disputing people get good gains from SD and PP, etc. And Legality and Freedom is very important.
But, legality aside, I wouldnt even consider these orals, if I had access to test prop, test cyp, tren, dbol, etc.
Test is just more consistent, effective, and the side effects are easier to manage and work with, than SD.
Just my two cents.
12-10-2005, 09:39 PM
I agree with what you said, but calling people stupid for taking PH is uncalled for. I personally have no idea how to get real anabolics, such as injectables, so I do use things such as Phera Plex.
12-10-2005, 09:48 PM
If legality isn't a concern, illegal AAS all the way. If they are "illegal" PH's, I"d say its plain stupidOriginally Posted by ripped22
12-10-2005, 10:25 PM
Alot of guys also just don't want to inject. Look how many people are getting Hex and Oratropin instead of the real stuff.
I agree no reason to call people stupid for what they choose.
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12-10-2005, 11:09 PM
For some of us it boils down to simply not being willing to take the legal risk, no matter how small that risk may be.
I don't have any local connections, so I can only obtain AAS from net sources. For me, even the relatively small risk of ordering from a domestic source is out of the question at this point in my life. If lightning would strike and I would get busted with steroids in the mail, I would most likely lose my job, among other consequences. I simply cannot risk that.
I'm having great results so far running 30 day cycles of pro-hormones, so I'm happy. Pass the Phera-Plex please!
12-10-2005, 11:13 PM
12-10-2005, 11:20 PM
Depends on how you look at it. Say some guy makes 100,000 dollars a year and if he gets busted he will lose any chance to find a job in that feild again. Some might say it was foolish to risk losing a dream job just to build a few extra lbs. of muscle. I'm not saying this is my opinon. I'm just trying to give you a diffrent point of view. Chances are you won't get caught but the risk is always their. Now if you work in fast food I say go for it.lolOriginally Posted by ripped22
12-11-2005, 04:16 AM
If I knew where & how to get illegal gear, I'd probably do it. Nothing heavy, just something that would give me equal gains to a compound such as SD. I don't mind the pinning. My only problem is that I'm not about to trust some frat guy college kid with my health. Therefore I'm stupid & run these prohormones such as SD & take as many preventative measures as possible.
If anyone can lead the blind..be my guest.
12-11-2005, 08:35 AM
12-11-2005, 08:56 AM
12-11-2005, 07:58 PM
I am not calling anyone stupid it was just a question. Keep in mind i have ran two prohoromone cycles myself.
Legality is a issue but if you really want the real deal look no further than your neighborhood gym. Most big guys either do them or know where to get them. You do have to have some sort of social relationship with these people before you inquire. Seek and you shall find.
12-11-2005, 08:45 PM
i dont know about you but about 20 or more cops workout where I do and if is free for them. I dont see them stopping anytime soon.
12-11-2005, 08:51 PM
Just walk up to the biggest guy in the gym and ask him where he gets his. There's a guy at my gym who's pretty thick that wears a shirt that says "I don't do steroids, so don't ask"...so I asked him where he got his steroids. He thought it was funny, but I was serious. Son of a bitch.
12-11-2005, 10:09 PM
i don't think that people who take prohormones are stupid. some of them are, but some of them aren't. looking at the gains they are reporting, though some of them may be agents of the companies who sell them, still apparently they DO work.
the articles by Amy Shipley seem to be somewhat biased. not necessarily sensationalistic, but obviously not the full truth. yeah, the right steroids done the right way, abstemiously, with appropriate PCT will probably be more effective and safer than some of these oral pro-hormones.
but if you're talking about pro-hormones, in total, including all of the stuff they had coming out the 2004 ban.. i sure would like to try that 19-nor-4-diol or whatever it was called. transdermal, i like the idea of sustained levels over a longer time. right now i've got some methasteron from analholic xxxtreme's pooperdrool and illegal gear's methyl-masturbate. i also have some m-1-alpha and m-1-p. i have the novedex xtreme (discontinued and inferior to..) and novedex XT from gasp!ari. the methoxy-trn (referred to here as meo-trn) from ALRI looks like a nice strengthener, and i've enjoyed those effects, though i only went up to 3mg for two days. i also have max lmg.
i haven't used illegal steroids or pre-ban PHs. i wish i could get my weak little hands on some 19-nor-4-diol to stack with my performance enhancers. or maybe some 4-ad. who knows.
i haven't used any of these for very long, the ones i've used for two weeks were at sub-optimal dosages but they sure seemed to be doing something.
i don't know where to post this so i'll post it here:
i have been using a test run of 2 capsules m-1-p + 2 capsules m-1-alpha mixed together and then split into four parts, taken three times per day. you can do the math. the reason i'm using fractions is 1) m-1-p dehydrates me too much and causes my lower lip to crack just like max lmg and 2) i want to see how i respond to lower dosages before i use higher dosages.
i have been supplementing with about 1.5g-3g of creatine monohydrate for some time now and haven't noticed much other than the regular dehydration in the early morning when i use the stuff, which is because of the enhanced hydration. i have gone up to an entire 5-6g of creatine and have bloated to 160-162 lbs. i was previously stuck at 150-152 lbs. my poundages in the weights are just below what used to be my previous bests for regular work sets of 5-8 reps (high rep scheme) or 2-4 reps (low rep scheme). i have started experimenting with these substaces below my previous bests in order to more accurately compare my results, not to "cheat" my way to previous strength levels. for comparison, see? i used tribulus occasionally for my chest (i respond to trib) to get to my previous best. which may indicate i am naturally low-normal on test.
i can't see the extra 2-3g of creatine monohydrate per day boosting me up by this many pounds, on my frame. maybe 5 pounds but not by a full ten pounds. i wish i'd monitored my body weight more closely after this kind of weight increase. i have moved up on the weights and though i have done it slowly and cautiously i must say i feel ready to move up again already. my nervous system, the androgenic effects of this combo of legal gear's recommended stack, have definently done their work on my CNS. i am definently stronger and look fuller and more muscular throughout the day. i'm sure not the same as the reports are on some of the nitric oxide (NO) boosters, but it is there. i sleep lightly and less, have more energy throughout the day and even when i'm feeling sluggish when i start in on those warm-up sets i am definently getting into the zone and pumping out those work sets with an ease and strength that is quite pleasant. i've got to cycle off the extra 1.5-3 grams of creatine per day and get off the m-1-p/m-1-alpha stack and see how much i weigh after that, which should take about 5 days after discontinuance if my experience with methasteron holds true. i am not at a level that is beyond my own "natural" strength. i definently have faster recovery and sleep isn't as much of a factor. i am finding that the tiredness from these substances isn't much, maybe i'm a little more tired waking up and forcing myself to work but it doesn't feel like a slog when i get moving and am up. they feel good. i don't like the estrogen control complex in the m-1-p because i am probably low-normal on estrogen, too. i have low body fat, a full-blown ectomorph and would actually probably appreciate some estrogen thrown into my fantasy steroid injectables if i were to have a choice, given the winter and my joints and lips.
i must say i have not been able to get above 152-153 after the "recomposition" affects of the blood-type diet. i naturally slimmed down and lost the excess fat on my tummy and thighs and buttocks, though they were slight. i had a previous high weight of 165, briefly at 169lbs on a rather slight frame of 5'9"3/4. that was not on the blood-type diet and i was most likely not as muscular as i am now, though my biceps were larger (butt was larger too but that was because of a juicy rump with plenty of fat).
it's almost been two weeks and it sure is working. sub-optimal doses, too. on the labels m-1-p has under it "strength and mass" and m-1-alpha has "explosive mass". i don't know what compounds are in these for sure, the amy shipley article tried to make the m-1-p sound dubious but if you read the article it is two compounds and one is a progestin.. but they may have caused very nice results in someone who is a proven ectomorph. my ARs are pretty virginal, barely two weeks on methasteron cycling up from 1/3 (3.3mg), 1/2 (5mg), 3/4 (7.5mg) to a full 10mg capsule per day (in divided doses). obviously on a "cycle" of this duration and dosage PCT was a snap. actually the novedex was way too strong coming off 10mgs methasteron for that length, even half a capsule was producing worrisome "thrashing python" attacks in the morning (took just before bed-time as directed on the bottle).
those estrogen blockers/binders can be pretty kick-ass on the test levels i bet. it seems that some people are getting great strength gains and some mass out of them. i know my test levels get a bit crazy on the novedex xt. i find a little generic tribulus helps keep the hormones right to stave off the mid-afternoon decrease in energy when the novedex isn't taken at other times, just before bed as directed on the bottle. i took the tribulus with the lunch on those occasions.
i seem to get flak when i express approval of tribulus amongst the PH crowd. i get flak for supporting PHs among the real juicers. i guess it's all a continuum. i think the PHs can be very effective, however. though i have read that the androgen receptors can respond differently given past AAS usage/history, i'm thinking that if someone already past their "natural" physique, the more muscle they have on their body the harder it will be to get bigger. we can only eat so much and digest so much, and we've still got to expend energy on living and making a living. the bigger we get the harder it is to get even bigger. and methasteron is a real steroid, not a pro-hormone or pro-steroid. just like halodrol is very similar to oral turinabol.. heh heh.
12-11-2005, 10:14 PM
They're all steroids. I doesn't matter. Personally, I'd rather go with Test any day over any of them. You know exactly how your body will react to, and how to control it. AND its been used by humans for, hmmm I dont know maybe 200,000 years or so.
12-11-2005, 10:55 PM
yeah. i like nandrolone and test sounds nice. but i may have MPB, though i don't have it exactly yet. i have a pronounced widow's peak but had that at mid teens. my hair is thick and sproingy but i know that can change. my uncle from my mother's side went bald though and i know how MPB is maternally inherited.
dosage may change even relatively low androgenic substances to hair killers (i guess). so i'm starting slow and low. haven't noticed anything yet.
test would probably not be good for my hairline, right? i like the idea of methasteron because of its favorable anabolic/androgenic ratio. i liked the effects on my joints and muscles, the larger size with the fluid made working out easier and very possibly safer. i enjoyed breathing less, it is supposed to also improve aerobic capacity. funny to read someone posting, worried that they are breathing less! some crazy carb cravings though (for me).
12-12-2005, 12:24 AM
The simple fact is that, when dealing with anabolics, it's an illegal market. If we could all go to the store and buy the test and such, we would. The "good stuff," however, isn't available to everyone.
All sources are not equal.
12-12-2005, 01:12 AM
That's a myth. MPB can come from your mother of father's side. There are plenty of products that can help you keep your hairline when using androgenic compounds, especially test.and i know how MPB is maternally inherited
12-12-2005, 05:48 AM
I think the ph's (4-ad, nordiol) were a good starting block before going on to AAS. Plus I think people who use legals are probably more worried about getting scammed and paying $500 for a 12 week cycle of vegatable oil.
12-12-2005, 08:37 AM
If I knew a rep underground place I would take the dive. I would pay a good amount for better gains that I know will actually come.
12-12-2005, 08:44 AM
Test base transdermal. Hard to beat that in my opinion. I did my own version of Sledge test with the same ratios of 4 Hydroxy and 4AD in a transdermal shortly before the ban. That was very nice.Originally Posted by BigVrunga
The prohormones were, for the most part, a slightly safer, milder alternative to the real deal. As others have said they're all technically steroids. Now that the companies who manufacture the (for a short time) legal alternatives are concentrating almost completely on orals I'm guessing it won't be long before the whole field gets dropped. I mean, who is more likely to use an oral? A newbie with no experience who is more likely to screw up. I think as the companies focus more on orals and less on transdermals and PFOs they're going to attract more of the inexperience uninformed crowd who want to get hooge. Recipe for destruction in my book, but it seems to be the way things are going and I'm sure the companies have their reasons.
12-12-2005, 09:12 AM
I agree 100%. Are their good legal steroids that can make decent dermals? Dermal legal steroids would be great. Even powder legal non-methyl steroids would be great. I knew a place that sold MINT but the company is gone now . MENT was too expensive any way.Originally Posted by CDB
12-12-2005, 11:32 AM
12-12-2005, 11:41 AM
If you look hard enough and know how to research, you can find anything you need - without having to resort to untested and experimental methylated orals.
12-12-2005, 12:16 PM
There is actually a good deal of research on MENT. Not much info as far as people running cycles, but the male contraceptive research on it is pretty extensive.Originally Posted by CDB
12-12-2005, 01:02 PM
12-12-2005, 01:05 PM
For most you are correct, but I'd like to find a Deca type steroid that is un-methylated that I can home brew or convert. Something prostate friendly.Originally Posted by BigVrunga
12-12-2005, 01:06 PM
But who wants to run something that shuts you down so hard. I guess it would be a bitch of a recovery.Originally Posted by natiels
12-12-2005, 01:09 PM
"If" is a very big word. "If" implies it should be simple, when in real life, for the average dude and dudette, it ain't. It's really all about what risk one is willing to take.Originally Posted by BigVrunga
Do you risk spending money for fake, contaminated, and/or mislabeled gear (and who're ya gonna sue when your medical bills pile up from some contaminated crap that's illegal?!!) Do you risk your livelihood, your freedom, your family's economic and social well-being etc...because you feel so cocksure about your sources and what you're doing that you end up penniless and in jail with all the other geniuses who thought the same (and for what? Vanity! Just to look a li'l prettier, to be a l'il stronger, and maybe a li'l bigger, if only temporarily for most?!!).
Illegal steroids, "prosteroids," prohormones - it's gotta be a personal choice, and I won't criticize anyone for whatever their choice may be. However, just like we openly discuss both the pros and cons of using, and proper protocols when using specific anabolic agents, I believe we should be open to the idea of cautioning one another to at least consider the legal risks inherent in purchasing and using illegal anabolic agents, and to do so in a thoughtful rather than impulsive manner.
12-12-2005, 01:15 PM
I thought BigVrunga was talking about converting fina and syno. But I agree with you 100% some people have a lot to loose. Is 15 pounds worth losing your job, family and respect of others? Most people expect the ones reading these boards look at steroids as heroin that builds muscle.Originally Posted by the Cardinal
12-12-2005, 01:19 PM
And that's the main difference - Thoughtful vs. Impulsive...Originally Posted by the Cardinal
I've been researching, planning, and postulating a tren cycle for 9 months now, still haven't done **** about it, that's thoughtfulness...
My first SD cycle went something like this, through an AIM convo w/ a buddy:
*buddy sends link to SD*
buddy: ZOMG LOOK AT THIS **** I'VE BEEN READING LOGS AT BB.COM THIS STUFF IS AMAZING
me: oh yea - wow 20 lbs. of lean muscle mass in a month!!!
Luckily that same week I signed up here, got BASHED by houseman and laughed at by others, and rightfully so, which made me think about what I was really doing... and I read about PCT and ****, and was actually somewhat educated before I actually started - but the recipe for disaster is definitely there when it comes to the orals...
12-12-2005, 02:24 PM
That's the info I'd be looking for. The PubMed et all research was good, but no real world info as to whether or not it's an effective substance to use for our purposes.Originally Posted by natiels
12-14-2005, 06:39 AM
I have read this quick board and I am going to give you the females opinion if you don't mind. PH's are not bad, And like some of you have said its about your concerns and what level you are trying to achieve. I am a FBBer and I compete at a tough competitive level. PH's wouldn't work for women in this area even if they ever thought about it; simply, women do not make test naturally to the level as men. It's very obvious. Yet, in today's competitive levels women use illegal gear constantly. Its sad what some go through and decide to do, but thats their choice. I am sure if women made gains off the legal Ph's it would be used widely, but it doesn't. Plus, the sides are more noticable in women than men and we get knocked on constantly. For women to compete, they have to take that step. Now is our feminity worth that advancement? Are our friends and jobs going to be able to handle our changes with us...??? Plus, what are our chances of get caught and losing everything seeming you notice it more in women? If legal PH's made an effect to our gains.....yea I would say more women would do it, but since it won't and since we won't take those chances with it to see......We choose to put a lot on the line to compete. Now if its just a hobby ..... and they just want muscle tone.....yea....it would be dumb to risk it all, a lot can changein a person if they just eat right and work hard and take the right supplements.... but its how your feel is in this sport and what level you want to take your sport too!
12-14-2005, 09:59 AM
That's what I was talking about.I thought BigVrunga was talking about converting fina and syno. But I agree with you 100% some people have a lot to loose. Is 15 pounds worth losing your job, family and respect of others? Most people expect the ones reading these boards look at steroids as heroin that builds muscle.
Finasteride or better yet, Duasteride, can go a long way toward protecting the prostate on a cycle of testosterone. It wouldnt help with tren, however.For most you are correct, but I'd like to find a Deca type steroid that is un-methylated that I can home brew or convert. Something prostate friendly.
12-14-2005, 10:06 AM
Finasteride did nothing for me with my trans test. I got prostate symptoms after 4 days. This is why I'm looking for a legal alternative close to Deca. I thinks a Deca type steroid is the only hop I have.Originally Posted by BigVrunga
12-14-2005, 10:24 AM
12-14-2005, 10:55 AM
I wish I could get some test or the like. I talked to some people at my gym who claimed they could score me anything.
That was in late July...and here I am now still with nothing.
I have nowhere else to turn...so I did a SD/1-test/4-ad cycle.
Once my pre ban stock pile is exhausted I'm not sure what I will do.
12-14-2005, 11:34 AM
Even with what you have, I bet you could get close to what your genetic limit would be for LBM. Once you go past that, I dont think your body can maintain your gains in a natural, non-augmented state.Once my pre ban stock pile is exhausted I'm not sure what I will do.
Unless you're a professional athlete, there's really no point in having to cycle all the time to maintain a state that you can't maintain naturally.
Unless that's what you want to do, of course.
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