Looking for Info on transdermal cycle

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    Looking for Help on transdermal cycle


    Just doing some research for my first "true" cycle. Figuring to run it in February or March. Not afraid of needles, just an old junkie that made a deal with God regarding them. So pinning is not an option, neither is alcohol for any oral.

    Never done Test, Tren, winstrol or proviron. I am in the middle of doing a 8 week anavar only @ 50mg/day. Have done SD & prostanazol also. I am currently: 37yo 175lb, 5'6.5, ~13% BF. Planning on finishing the anavar with the end of november. Will PCTfor 4 weeks and then do nothing but creatine, citruline malate & BCAA's as supplements until start of cycle.

    I was figuring a transdermal cycle finishing with some anavar or stanazol in oral suspension. Materials available: Test Base, Trenbolone Base, Napoism 5mg tabs, Anavar powder, winstrol powder, proviron. PCT items available: Nolva, Clomid, Letro, Rebound, Lean Xt

    I was planning to dose:
    Test @ ~1500mg/week, s/b ~500mg figuring ~30% absorption.
    Trenbolone @ 750mg/week, s/b ~300mg figuring ~40% absorption.
    Proviron 50-75mg/day throughout, in oral solution.
    Either anavar liquid @50mg/day or 75-100mg Winstrol liquid.

    I was thinking of running the test for 10 weeks, Proviron throughout, Tren for 6 weeks, anavar/winstrol last 4 weeks. Even thinking of extending Test to 12 weeks to accomodate for 2 weeks of Napoism to jump start the deal.

    There is also the possibility of doing 2, 6 week cycles.

    Transdermal will be in T-gel, oral will be in EVOO, 5% BA shaken just prior to use. (18ml oil, 1gram powder, 1ml BA)

    I have plenty of time and will be doing a ton of research, not that I have not done a ****load already. Any pertinent info would be greatly appreciated. help with filling in the gaps would also be appreciated.
    Last edited by jonny21; 11-15-2005 at 03:18 PM.

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    Leaning towards the 6 weeks cycle route after reviewing Size's thread re: Short cycles, Jminis's 2 logs & Snakebytes's 6 week trans cycle. Thinking about leaving out the Tren first time around. Just bought a capper so I'll probably cap the anavar, proviron, & winstrol rather than playing with solutions. Also purchased some phlogel. Considering trans DHEA as a PCT supplement also.

    Any input on dosages based on experience?
    Last edited by jonny21; 11-12-2005 at 08:30 AM.
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    Bueller?... Bueller?...anyone Bueller?
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    I wouldn't mess with winstrol, quite possibly the harshest steroid on your cholesterol profile. It will send your LDL soaring and your HDL to the floor for months.

    If you have tren and anavar, why even bother with winstrol?
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    Quote Originally Posted by brogers
    I wouldn't mess with winstrol, quite possibly the harshest steroid on your cholesterol profile. It will send your LDL soaring and your HDL to the floor for months.

    If you have tren and anavar, why even bother with winstrol?
    Thanks for the input. As of this moment the only definite chemical that will be included in my cycle will be the TD Test base. I was hoping to gather valuable info with this thread as well as research on this and other boards.
    If I do run the winstrol I would probably run it in the same cycle as the Napoism to help counteract any water gains.
    I have enough chemicals to run multiple 4-6 weeks cycles. Since this is my first cycle with Test, I was hoping to find out if it would be more beneficial to start out really simple i.e. 40 day cycle of:Test base/ Proviron, Anavar or Winstrol. Or should I hit the floor running with Test/D-bol, Tren, Proviron, Anavar or Winstrol.

    Thanks

    If it helps here are pics from august:
    Figured, what the hell

    have added since then:
    10lbs, ~1-2% BF
    1 1/2 " to thighs
    0 to calves
    0 to waist
    Last edited by jonny21; 11-12-2005 at 10:44 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21

    Any input on dosages based on experience?
    Your test dosing is a little high for my taste. 500mg ew of actual test is like taking 750 ew of test enanthate due to the weight of the ester. You will also increse the amount of free test whenn adding Proviron. My advise would be to keep it simple and see how your body responds to the differant compunds independantly rather than stacking multiple right off the bat.

    Maybe run 175mg test ed yielding roughly 370mg ew after 30% absorbion rate is figured.( 500mg Test Enanthate yields roughly 335mg after accounting for the weight of the ester) . Add in the Proviron at 50mg ed to combat estrogen and free up test. This would be a fast acting stack so you could cut it short at any time if you started experiencing unbearable sides such as gyno, hair loss or swolen prostate.

    You could also run said stack for a month to see how you respond and then introduce some Tren. Of course you already know how you respond to Anavar so you could substitute that for the tren but it won't add much if anything to the stack except maybe some strength IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpmartyr
    Your test dosing is a little high for my taste. 500mg ew of actual test is like taking 750 ew of test enanthate due to the weight of the ester. You will also increse the amount of free test whenn adding Proviron. My advise would be to keep it simple and see how your body responds to the differant compunds independantly rather than stacking multiple right off the bat.

    Maybe run 175mg test ed yielding roughly 370mg ew after 30% absorbion rate is figured.( 500mg Test Enanthate yields roughly 335mg after accounting for the weight of the ester) . Add in the Proviron at 50mg ed to combat estrogen and free up test. This would be a fast acting stack so you could cut it short at any time if you started experiencing unbearable sides such as gyno, hair loss or swolen prostate.

    You could also run said stack for a month to see how you respond and then introduce some Tren. Of course you already know how you respond to Anavar so you could substitute that for the tren but it won't add much if anything to the stack except maybe some strength IMO.
    Sounds like solid advice, thanks.
    I am considering the Test with the winstrol for my first stack. 40 day total cycle time, 30 days on the Test (tapered down) with the Proviron and 20 days winstrol tapered up to 75mg/day.
    Would look something like this:
    175mg TB; 50mg Prov. X 10 days
    125mg TB; 50mg Prov. X 10 days
    75mg TB; 25mg Prov; 25-50mg Winstrol X 10 days
    50-75mg Winstrol X 10 days
    PCT would look something like this:
    Clomid 100,100,50,50
    Nolva if needed
    Lean Extreme 2caps per day throughout
    Rebound XT 25,50,50,75
    TD DHEA 200,150,100,50

    Since I am planning a short cycle I am leaving the anavar out as it does take some time to really kick in. Now that I say it I am not sure this is sound thinking because I believe the Winnie is more of an androgen and I believe the whole idea is to ideally stack an androgen with an anabolic. Again, I am not too attached to anything except the Test Base and I have plenty of time to decide.

    Any comments or thoughts?
    Jminis or Size, if you happen to read this I would be extremely grateful for your input. Not that I am not happy with anyone else's opinion. its just that you got the ball rolling in my head with your threads.

    Thanks
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    Sorry if this is considered clutter, but I was off today and had a little too much thinking time. I like the idea of having the anavar included instead of the winstrol. I just have to run it thru the whole cycle since it takes a good 4 weeks before I really feel its effect from my current experience. I am just still unsure whether to include the Tren Base since it is the first time I will be using Test or Tren. It basically comes down to the following 2 cycles:
    CYCLE 1:
    175mg TB; 50mg Proviron; 25mg Anavar
    175mg TB; 50mg Proviron; 25mg Anavar
    175mg TB; 50mg Proviron; 25mg Anavar
    175mg TB; 50mg Proviron; 25mg Anavar
    175mg TB; 50mg Proviron; 25mg Anavar
    175mg TB; 50mg Proviron; 25mg Anavar
    175mg TB; 50mg Proviron; 25mg Anavar
    125mg TB; 50mg Proviron; 25mg Anavar
    125mg TB; 50mg Proviron; 25mg Anavar
    125mg TB; 50mg Proviron; 25mg Anavar
    125mg TB; 50mg Proviron; 25mg Anavar
    125mg TB; 50mg Proviron; 25mg Anavar
    125mg TB; 50mg Proviron; 25mg Anavar
    125mg TB; 50mg Proviron; 25mg Anavar
    75mg TB; 25mg Proviron; 25mg Anavar
    75mg TB; 25mg Proviron; 25mg Anavar
    75mg TB; 25mg Proviron; 25mg Anavar
    75mg TB; 25mg Proviron; 25mg Anavar
    50mg TB; 25mg proviron; 25mg Anavar
    50mg TB; 25mg proviron; 25mg Anavar
    50mg TB; 25mg proviron; 50mg Anavar
    50mg Anavar Day 22 to Day 40

    CYCLE 2:
    175mg TB; 50mg Proviron; 25mg Anavar
    175mg TB; 50mg Proviron; 25mg Anavar
    175mg TB; 50mg Proviron; 25mg Anavar
    175mg TB; 50mg Proviron; 25mg Anavar
    175mg TB; 50mg Proviron; 25mg Anavar
    175mg TB; 50mg Proviron; 25mg Anavar
    175mg TB; 50mg Proviron; 25mg Anavar
    125mg TB; 50mg Proviron; 50mg Tren Base; 25mg Anavar
    125mg TB; 50mg Proviron; 50mg Tren Base; 25mg Anavar
    125mg TB; 50mg Proviron; 50mg Tren Base; 25mg Anavar
    125mg TB; 50mg Proviron; 50mg Tren Base; 25mg Anavar
    125mg TB; 50mg Proviron; 50mg Tren Base; 25mg Anavar
    125mg TB; 50mg Proviron; 100mg Tren Base; 25mg Anavar
    125mg TB; 50mg Proviron; 100mg Tren Base; 25mg Anavar
    75mg TB; 25mg Proviron; 100mg Tren Base; 25mg Anavar
    75mg TB; 25mg Proviron; 100mg Tren Base; 25mg Anavar
    75mg TB; 25mg Proviron; 100mg Tren Base; 25mg Anavar
    75mg TB; 25mg Proviron; 100mg Tren Base; 25mg Anavar
    50mg TB; 25mg proviron; 100mg Tren Base; 25mg Anavar
    50mg TB; 25mg proviron; 100mg Tren Base; 25mg Anavar
    50mg TB; 25mg proviron; 100mg Tren Base; 25mg Anavar
    100mg Tren Base; 25mg Anavar
    100mg Tren Base; 25mg Anavar
    100mg Tren Base; 25mg Anavar
    100mg Tren Base; 25mg Anavar
    100mg Tren Base; 25mg Anavar
    75mg Tren Base; 50mg Anavar
    75mg Tren Base; 50mg Anavar
    75mg Tren Base; 50mg Anavar
    75mg Tren Base; 50mg Anavar
    50mg Tren Base; 50mg Anavar
    50mg Tren Base; 50mg Anavar
    50mg Tren Base; 50mg Anavar
    50mg Anavar
    50mg Anavar
    50mg Anavar
    50mg Anavar;
    50mg Anavar;
    50mg Anavar;
    50mg Anavar;
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    Either way PCT would look something like this:

    40mg Nolva; Lean Extreme 2cap; 25mg Rebound; 100mg TD DHEA
    40mg Nolva; Lean Extreme 2cap; 25mg Rebound; 100mg TD DHEA
    40mg Nolva; Lean Extreme 2cap; 25mg Rebound; 100mg TD DHEA
    40mg Nolva; Lean Extreme 2cap; 25mg Rebound; 100mg TD DHEA
    40mg Nolva; Lean Extreme 2cap; 25mg Rebound; 100mg TD DHEA
    40mg Nolva; Lean Extreme 2cap; 25mg Rebound; 100mg TD DHEA
    40mg Nolva; Lean Extreme 2cap; 25mg Rebound; 100mg TD DHEA
    40mg Nolva; Lean Extreme 2cap; 25mg Rebound; 100mg TD DHEA
    40mg Nolva; Lean Extreme 2cap; 25mg Rebound; 100mg TD DHEA
    40mg Nolva; Lean Extreme 2cap; 25mg Rebound; 100mg TD DHEA
    40mg Nolva; Lean Extreme 2cap; 25mg Rebound; 100mg TD DHEA
    40mg Nolva; Lean Extreme 2cap; 25mg Rebound; 100mg TD DHEA
    40mg Nolva; Lean Extreme 2cap; 25mg Rebound; 100mg TD DHEA
    40mg Nolva; Lean Extreme 2cap; 25mg Rebound; 100mg TD DHEA
    20mg Nolva; Lean Extreme 2cap; 50mg rebound; 50mg TD DHEA
    20mg Nolva; Lean Extreme 2cap; 50mg rebound; 50mg TD DHEA
    20mg Nolva; Lean Extreme 2cap; 50mg rebound; 50mg TD DHEA
    20mg Nolva; Lean Extreme 2cap; 50mg rebound; 50mg TD DHEA
    20mg Nolva; Lean Extreme 2cap; 50mg rebound; 50mg TD DHEA
    20mg Nolva; Lean Extreme 2cap; 50mg rebound; 50mg TD DHEA
    20mg Nolva; Lean Extreme 2cap; 50mg rebound; 50mg TD DHEA
    20mg Nolva; Lean Extreme 2cap; 75mg Rebound; 50mg TD DHEA
    20mg Nolva; Lean Extreme 2cap; 75mg Rebound; 50mg TD DHEA
    20mg Nolva; Lean Extreme 2cap; 75mg Rebound; 50mg TD DHEA
    20mg Nolva; Lean Extreme 2cap; 75mg Rebound; 50mg TD DHEA
    20mg Nolva; Lean Extreme 2cap; 75mg Rebound; 50mg TD DHEA
    20mg Nolva; Lean Extreme 2cap; 75mg Rebound; 50mg TD DHEA
    20mg Nolva; Lean Extreme 2cap; 75mg Rebound; 50mg TD DHEA
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    Find it hard to believe no further input, but nevertheless i figured share & share alike:
    http://rapidshare.de/files/3275300/B...Beast.pdf.html
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    Well as far as the tren, Im not sure I would recommend using it in your first cycle. Its a pretty strong compound and the way I figure it, use the basics first as in test and save the strong ones till later when test may not work as well or you are looking to try something different. I like that you are going with the 6 week cycles. They are great in my mind, a nice switch up from 12 weeks of sticking yourself and 6 weeks of harsh orals.

    Im not sure if you have got the powders yet, if you havent, you could always try something different for the the second part of the cycle, like boldenone or nandrolone. Both I think could add to your cycle and would be better than using tren in the first cycle. Im glad you got phlojel for this, thats the one thing ill make sure to do for now on. Tgel was just to much rubbing.

    i see you are running two methyls together at the beginning, make sure to take some liver protectant, even though anavar and proviron are not the most toxic orals, probably some of the least toxic I believe.

    If you go with only test, I would suggest possibly keeping the dose at a steady rate the entire time. The next dermal cycle I do I will be trying consistant dosages to see if it is any better than the up and downing of the dosage. There is good reason for going up and down, but its always nice to see what works for yourself.

    Other than that, I say good luck on what you do. Maybe keep a log, id be interesting in seeing your results.
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    no need to decrease the dosage as you go along .. keep it steady
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    why do yo have a different absorption rate for the test -vs- tren?

    "Test @ ~1500mg/week, s/b ~500mg figuring ~30% absorption.
    Trenbolone @ 750mg/week, s/b ~300mg figuring ~40% absorption"

    Also if you are using PhloJel Ultra yo can expect better absorption if you take care to triturate the powder as fine as possible prior to compounding. I suspect if you also prep the skin by roughing it up in the shower prior to application and saty well hydrated you will see more like 40% to 50% drug delivery. Stay in the 10% concentration range when compounding.

    Also you may want to rethink the DHEA for PCT. Take a look at some of the recent research and you'll find that DHEA has a higher conversion to E than T in men and higher conversion to T than E in women. Just our luck I guess.
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    For your first I like cycle one except I would take the var up sooner instead of doubling. I would go 25, 35, 45, 55. I would also start PCT at day 35 and maybe add clomid in for the first 2 weeks as it kicks in fast then nolva. Think of it almost as a PCT frontload.
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    I suggest keeping it simple as well.
    A TB with maybe one oral to start is what I always had in mind once all other options disappeared. Lots of people really like the short dermal TB runs....keep us informed on how this goes for ya.
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    Wow guys thanks alot, some excellent info.

    I like that you are going with the 6 week cycles...Im not sure if you have got the powders yet, if you havent, you could always try something different for the the second part of the cycle, like boldenone or nandrolone.
    Your log was very helpful and your results were key to my decision. I already have the above ingredients but I will be getting boldenone base prior to my cycle and will probably include that instead of the Tren in my second cycle. Thanks.

    no need to decrease the dosage as you go along .. keep it steady
    Will do.

    why do yo have a different absorption rate for the test -vs- tren?
    I was working under the thought that chemicals with lower molecular weight absorbed better. Is this flawed thinking?

    I would go 25, 35, 45, 55. I would also start PCT at day 35 and maybe add clomid in for the first 2 weeks as it kicks in fast then nolva. Think of it almost as a PCT frontload.
    Would you go up every 7 days or should I amp it up to 50 as soon as possible. I am very comfortable on the 50mg/day I am taking right now. As for the frontload PCT I definitely like that idea.

    again, thanks for the input.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21
    I was working under the thought that chemicals with lower molecular weight absorbed better. Is this flawed thinking?
    anything under 400 daltons will get through the skin at the same rate. I would use the same % of delivery for both hormones. The only thing that would effect the delivery is the concentration of the drug in the vehicle.
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    i dont see why a var taper is used.

    tren and winny make a killer combo (so do deca and winny)

    6 weeks should be plenty.

    does anybody **** when they do TD cycles?? that's why i like to pin, it keeps all that **** in me and away from women.

    at 175lb @ 13% do you think you've reached your genetic limit? i guess that isnt too light for your height. a pic would help. man if i weighed 175 with my diet i'd be gaining WAY too fast w/o juice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by triceptor
    anything under 400 daltons will get through the skin at the same rate. I would use the same % of delivery for both hormones. The only thing that would effect the delivery is the concentration of the drug in the vehicle.
    Dalton who? I'll take you at your word on this, I am out of my league on the chemistry aspect.
    As far as concentration, I am not getting greedy I am taking your recommendation from previous posts and shooting for 100mg/ml. Also going with the d-limonene instead of DMSO as advised.

    at 175lb @ 13% do you think you've reached your genetic limit? i guess that isnt too light for your height. a pic would help. man if i weighed 175 with my diet i'd be gaining WAY too fast w/o juice.
    My genetic potential was annihilated at 13yo when I started smoking cigs, & weed, drinking copious amounts of etoh, and various other min/mood altering substances. Considering you probably outweigh me by 80 to 90 pounds your diet would be quite excessive. Ever since 28 the extra kcals don't go where they used to. Just have the one photo at this time. Right arm: 15.75" measured flexed & cold. There is a link in Post # 5 to pics from the summer.
    Last edited by jonny21; 12-30-2005 at 09:02 PM.
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    I like your cycle plans, I'm glad you kept winstrol out of it, your joints and your arteries will thank you.
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    does anybody **** when they do TD cycles?? that's why i like to pin, it keeps all that **** in me and away from women.
    With a shirt on. If you run a short (4 week or so) TD cycle, its not too bad. The complaining girlfriend is more than out weighed by the increase in size and strength

    BV
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    Like yourself I have been researching a similar TD cycle. Test Base @200mg and Bold Base @200mg. And like others have mentioned, keeping it simple for a first 'real' run. Just thought I'd drop in and say hello. Keep us posted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150
    Like yourself I have been researching a similar TD cycle. Test Base @200mg and Bold Base @200mg. And like others have mentioned, keeping it simple for a first 'real' run. Just thought I'd drop in and say hello. Keep us posted.
    I am in the process of acquiring "Bold base" and considering some "Nandrolone base". Figuring on mixing it up for future stacks, keep the body guessing.

    Anyone with any experience with Nandrolone TD?

    I am also considering running Lean Extreme or Retain during the anabolic phase to enhance it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21
    Dalton who? I'll take you at your word on this, I am out of my league on the chemistry aspect.
    A dalton is equivalent to molecular weight. The molecular weight of Test base is 288.42 daltons. Keep the molecular weight under 400.
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    Quote Originally Posted by triceptor
    anything under 400 daltons will get through the skin at the same rate. I would use the same % of delivery for both hormones. The only thing that would effect the delivery is the concentration of the drug in the vehicle.
    Please keep in mind I am only arguing a theoretical point...

    Does this mean something like test prop would work with phlojel? I don't imagine that it would actually keep the ester once absorbed by the body since it would probably be cleaved by some mechanism unknown to me or would it build up a little in the body?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsl
    Please keep in mind I am only arguing a theoretical point...

    Does this mean something like test prop would work with phlojel? I don't imagine that it would actually keep the ester once absorbed by the body since it would probably be cleaved by some mechanism unknown to me or would it build up a little in the body?
    the short answer is yes. in theory the ester will be cleaved by way of hydrolysis in the vehicle. how laong that will take (hours, days, etc) is unknown without some lab research. the evalue of the esterfication is then in question. the drug will be delivered either way as long as the molecular weight is under 400 dalton.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150
    Like yourself I have been researching a similar TD cycle. Test Base @200mg and Bold Base @200mg. And like others have mentioned, keeping it simple for a first 'real' run. Just thought I'd drop in and say hello. Keep us posted.
    how about test / tren?
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    Quote Originally Posted by triceptor
    anything under 400 daltons will get through the skin at the same rate. I would use the same % of delivery for both hormones. The only thing that would effect the delivery is the concentration of the drug in the vehicle.
    So assuming 100mg/ml, are there any steadfast rules to follow regarding application? I've seen people rec'd wrapping with plastic, exfoliating...

    Absortion time with Phlo?

    Does it continue thru day, should night time application be used?

    Test/Tren is top notch from my research, I'm just keeping it simple for first run of Test.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21
    So assuming 100mg/ml, are there any steadfast rules to follow regarding application? I've seen people rec'd wrapping with plastic, exfoliating...

    Absortion time with Phlo?

    Does it continue thru day, should night time application be used?

    Test/Tren is top notch from my research, I'm just keeping it simple for first run of Test.
    no need for plastic wrap. this can actually impair absorption by causing continous excessive sweating.

    When you apply the PhloJel Ultra with drug incorporated into it to your skin it passes through the startum corneum of the skin and loads the drug into the dermis. the drug slowley makes it way to the fatty layer of the skin where blood vessels are. this process is controlled by the skins peak saturation capacity. as the drug is leached into the local blood pathways and then systemicaly, it decreases the saturation of the fatty layer and more of the drug makes its way from the dermis into the fatty layer. like a continous parade of drug making its way from the outer most portion of the skin to the deppest layers. This process can take 12+ hours. In fact, while most TD products claim systained release for 12 hours, it may in fact deliver for much longer due to this process.

    it is also possible to achieve higher drug delievry lavels by rotating application areas. as described above, if in fact a single application delivers for over 12 hours and you apply a second dose on the same area of skin at the 12 hour mark, and that area is already at peak saturation, the new application will remain in the outer most layer of the dermis for a longer period of time as it wats for the saturation level to dip low enough for it to make its journey toward the fatty layer.

    with this in mind, if you apply your AM dose on your upper abdomen as an example and your PM dose on your upper chest for instance, the second application will go to work immidiately upon applying it in concert with the previous application and thus a higher delivery of the drug.

    if the drug has CNS stimulatory effects I would apply the PM dose around 6PM and not much later. I was experimenting with a test batch once and accidentally pushed the plunger of the syringe too hard and shot about 6ml of 100mg/ml. it was around 8PM and I went ahead and rubbed it on over a large area (upper chest/shoulders/upper abs) within 15 minutes I could feel the surge. I couldn't sleep that night and I even took 6mg of time released melatonin and 1mg Ativan. I fell asleep around 3pm.
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    received my phlojel ultra today in the mail. thanks for your input
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