Winter Bulker: HMMMMMMM?????

[Beowulf]

I plan on doing about an 8 week bulker using all legal/recently legal compounds. I'm just using this thread as a place to brainstorm ideas for the cycle. I have a bunch of 1,4 andro, and I might just run it all in one cycle, as it seems doses need to be high to get results. Here is what I am initially playing with:

Days 1-60: 1,4 Andro 1.2G ED
Days 1-20: Superdrol (20mg ED)
Days 20-60: MAX LMG (75mg ED)
Days 40-60: E...MAX LMG (20mg ED)
Days 50-80: IGF-1 (50mcg ED/5on-2off)

Again, this is just a rough draft. For e.g, I need to find out if 20 days is sufficient to go from SD to E...MAX. I will definitely run the appropriate CoQ10, etc, but I don't know if that will cut it. I could just axe the E... I also will have Methoxy TRN, so based on user feedback at that point, I'll consider that as a possibility. I have some 4AD transdermal that I could throw in there, but I don't like the idea that it could rub of on my lady or nephew. I'm concerned about libido, especially with the MAX LMG. Would Powerfull possibly help here? I know some will say test is necessary, but I'm not quite there yet.


I haven't thought too much about what PCT will consist of, especially since so many new products keep coming out. I would expect some Activate/ATD concoction w/Nolva on hand as a precaution. I might also start the ATD Around Day 45: I've heard ALR compare it to HCG, though I haven't heard much anecdotal support for this.

Please chime in with ideas.

 

[motiv8er]

Everything looks pretty good bud. The first thing thst caught my eye was the max lmg for 20 days with 1, 4 diol. Are you seeing anyone? Are they cool if you are not able? My understanding of Max LMG is that its like an oral tren of sorts. Hopefully by then the 1, 4 will have kicked in by the time the SD fully exits. SD always seems to linger with me a good week or so after last admin. Look foward to watching.

 

[Beowulf]

Huh, while you were replying I was revising to add some comments that addressed the possible wet noodle. Powerfull? 4Derm?

 

[ryansm]

Add some test, it will do a body good:thumbsup:

 

[Beowulf]

If I do the 4Derm, I think I have enough to run 400mg for about 50days. I just don't like the idea of it possibly rubbing off on others. I wonder how long this is a potential issue for? 1 hour after application? 6?

 

[ryansm]

Good question, I would say 4-6 hours or longer. Just make sure to apply it in an area that will be covered during the suspected contact. (if possible):whip:

 

[bigpetefox]

You ankles and the tops of your feet would be a good out of the way area for a transdermal..

 

[ryansm]

Just what I was thinking, and if you get freaky in the sack, just wear socks.

 

[Beowulf]

Thanks, gents. The contemplation continues...

 

[Beowulf]

Just what I was thinking, and if you get freaky in the sack, just wear socks.

OK, I'll put a sock on every appendage, except my...


With snow falling in Boston and winter on its way, it should be a lot easier to justify the need for sox...as I drip sweat all over her

 

[motiv8er]

But Pete

What if he has a massive toe fetish? That could be bad for his toes getting off. Toes gotta get their freak on too, eh.

 

[Ubiquitous]

I agree with whoever said throw some Test in there. lol

I say that about anything. I'm a zealot for Test.

TEST!!!:box:

 

[bpmartyr]

If I do the 4Derm, I think I have enough to run 400mg for about 50days. I just don't like the idea of it possibly rubbing off on others. I wonder how long this is a potential issue for? 1 hour after application? 6?

Even if a small amount "rubbed off" on someone it would not be an issue. Say 50 mg somehow got onto someone, (which I think is a very high number, just to be safe) at most 30% would penetrate their skin, much less in reality since the carrier would have dried/absorbed within a few minutes after application, that leaves 15mg. Now figure the 4AD converts at roughly 15% leaving 2.25mg of test. Hardly enough to spit at. 4AD is not an irritant like 1Test is.

I have used 4AD trans several times and have had good results even though I would often engage in physical activity that gets me all sweaty within 2hrs of application. Also engaged in a lot of mating rituals shortly after application and never had a problem. Not recommended with 1Test however.

That being said (typed), use it man! The libido is awesome on that stuff. Test rules, and with 400mg ed, you should yield about 125mg of test ew.

 

[B5150]

I'm with bpmartyr on the transfer. My wife has given me a hard time about that in the past, and of course I am always cautious, she is just obsesively phobic sometimes. Here's my take on the 4AD. We purposely rub it directly on ourselves, with the hope of getting ~30% absorption, and of that maybe a 15% conversion. If by accident I make contact and transfer some residual onto someone else consider the potential for there to be an appreciable transfer of active, then factor the absorption and conversion. I would be more concerned with the skin irritation from the solution, or if using 1-T, the same.

As far as your cycle, if I recall this will be the first. So if you don't have test, certainly use the 4AD at least 400mg/d. If you had 1-T that would be a very good first time stack. My line of thinking is use a progressive appraoch to your androgen choice. Baby steps to the bulking process as well as the cutting process. JMO

 

[bda55]

Beowulf, not trying to hijack your thread, but I have a little question about the transdermal 4-AD: I've used it twice before dosed 400mg daily, would 800mg daily be a reasonable dosage for my next cycle (doing PP atm, thinking of ending with 2 weeks M1T/4AD)? That yields about 250mg of test per week, which doesn't seem too high for me (190lbs)... ?

 

[CEDeoudes59]

Insert DHEA too? (provides a small test base I hear...)

 

[B5150]

Beowulf, not trying to hijack your thread, but I have a little question about the transdermal 4-AD: I've used it twice before dosed 400mg daily, would 800mg daily be a reasonable dosage for my next cycle (doing PP atm, thinking of ending with 2 weeks M1T/4AD)? That yields about 250mg of test per week, which doesn't seem too high for me (190lbs)... ?

It may yield the 250mg/w of test but there is a whole lot of aromatization/estrogenic sides with that conversion and potential for a whole lot of bloat to be expected with that much 4AD.

 

[Beowulf]

B5150 and BPMartyr, Great input about the transfer.

bda55, I think that would be overkill on the 4AD. I used 4derm once before, and I felt like I was rubbing it all over large parts of my body when it was only 400mg. 800mg would mean you would be bathing in it. And 4derm smells like citrus, so if you have the Dermabolics you will be one fruity smellin muthafucka!

Deo, I will definitely be hittin' up the DHEA toward the end/into PCT. Maybe I'll start that when my 4AD runs out.

I can't wait :head:

 

[bda55]

Ok guys thanks for the answers

Good luck with your cycle Beo :cheers:

 

[Beowulf]

Revision of Plan

Days 1-60: 1,4 Andro 1.2G ED
Days 1-60: 400mg TD 4AD
Days 1-20: Superdrol (20mg ED)
Days 40-60: E...MAX LMG (20mg ED)
Days 50-80: Oratropin or Hexatropin (5on-2off)

Still subject to change, but this is the new test-intact plan. I'll probably also start taking ATD about 3 weeks before the end and continue through PCT. I'll probably also add nolva and Activate to the PCT.

I'm also going to experiment with using Rebound XT/Activate for 4-6 weeks leading up to the cycle. If the boys are at a "superphysiological" level before I even begin, hopefully that means shutdown will be minimal.

 

[Beowulf]

A couple of questions:
Does anyone know if it matters how you dose the 1,4? I have 200mg tabs, so I am thinking I will take 2tabs 3Xdaily. Does anyone know if this is necessary? Can I just take them all at once?

Also, I'm trying to decide what to do with the Oratropin or Hexatropin-6. I'm not sure which to run, but I think I'm leaning toward the OT. The thing is, I want to run it for about 30 days. You are supposed to run it 5 on/2 off. Each kit comes w/15 doses, meaning each kit will last 21 days. 1 kit would leave me on a shorter cycle than I want, but I think 42 days would be overkill, as most say effects begin to wane at after about 30 days.

Another possiblility could be to run one of each kit. Or, I could possibly pick up P-GH once the OT runs out.

Input? :think:

 

[3clipseGT]

A couple of questions:
Does anyone know if it matters how you dose the 1,4? I have 200mg tabs, so I am thinking I will take 2tabs 3Xdaily. Does anyone know if this is necessary? Can I just take them all at once?

Also, I'm trying to decide what to do with the Oratropin or Hexatropin-6. I'm not sure which to run, but I think I'm leaning toward the OT. The thing is, I want to run it for about 30 days. You are supposed to run it 5 on/2 off. Each kit comes w/15 doses, meaning each kit will last 21 days. 1 kit would leave me on a shorter cycle than I want, but I think 42 days would be overkill, as most say effects begin to wane at after about 30 days.

Another possiblility could be to run one of each kit. Or, I could possibly pick up P-GH once the OT runs out.

Input? :think"

I hope you dont think that i think ur stupid with me sayin this as it may come out wrong. The Oratropin would be for cutting as it kills ur appetite. Now Hexatropin on the other hand kicks the appetite up great. Ive never personally used either but this is what ive read and heard they are supposed to do. Id go with the Hex if were you. Maybe get 2 kits but save like half a kit for another time?

Good luck with ur cycle bro it sounds good to me :cheers:

 

[Beowulf]

You're confusing Oratropin and Ectotropin. Ecto is the stuff that massacres your appetite. Oratropin is cell-mediated IGF-1. I don't think I'd even use Ecto on a cut, based on how strong the suppression is purported to be. Hexatropin contains two GH releasing peptides, so it would also promote increased IGF-1 levels. The choice is between Ora and Hexa.

BTW, I am definitely dropping the MAX LMG. There is no way in hell I need 5 substances+IGF-1/GH in this cycle. I was basically just liquidating my stash. I'll save it for next time, maybe Ergo, Max and Prostan.

 

[3clipseGT]

You're confusing Oratropin and Ectotropin. Ecto is the stuff that massacres your appetite. Oratropin is cell-mediated IGF-1. I don't think I'd even use Ecto on a cut, based on how strong the suppression is purported to be. Hexatropin contains two GH releasing peptides, so it would also promote increased IGF-1 levels. The choice is between Ora and Hexa.

BTW, I am definitely dropping the MAX LMG. There is no way in hell I need 5 substances+IGF-1/GH in this cycle. I was basically just liquidating my stash. I'll save it for next time, maybe Ergo, Max and Prostan.

:shoot: Boy do i feel retarded. LOL Im always getting those confused. My bad bro. Good luck with ur cycle ill just onserve. Hahah

 

[Beowulf]

No worries, if you haven't been researching them why would you know? Jus make sure you're not confused before you take anything

 

[3clipseGT]

No worries, if you haven't been researching them why would you know? Jus make sure you're not confused before you take anything

Hahaha yea definately.:food:

 

[Beowulf]

Final Draft?

Days 1-60: 1,4 Andro 1.2G ED
Days 1-60: 400mg TD 4AD
Days 1-20: Superdrol (20mg ED)
Days 41-60: E...MAX LMG (20mg ED)
Days 45-86: Oratropin (5on-2off)
Days 61-70: Nolva 60mg; ATD 25mg
Days 71-80:Nolva 40mg; ATD 50mg
Days 81-90: Nolva 20mg; ATD 75mg
Days 91-100: ATD 75mg
Days 61-100: Activate
Days 61-100: DHEA 200mg daily (decrease 50mg every 10days)
Days 61-100: Fenotest
Days 61-100: Lean Extreme
Days 1-100: Glucophase
I will take milk thistle, celery seed extract, hawthorne berry, etc throughout, along with 2-3tbsp of flax oil daily.

I'm not sure if I'll do the 5on/2off with the OT. I might just run it 30 straight days.

Feedback?

*EDIT: Added Activate

 

[3clipseGT]

Days 1-60: 1,4 Andro 1.2G ED
Days 1-60: 400mg TD 4AD
Days 1-20: Superdrol (20mg ED)
Days 41-60: E...MAX LMG (20mg ED)
Days 51-80: Oratropin or Hexatropin (5on-2off)
Days 61-70: Nolva 60mg; ATD 25mg
Days 71-80:Nolva 40mg; ATD 50mg
Days 81-90: Nolva 20mg; ATD 75mg
Days 91-100: ATD 75mg
Days 61-100: DHEA 200mg daily (decrease 50mg every 10days)
Days 61-100: Fenotest
Days 61-100: Lean Extreme
Days 1-100: Glucophase
I will take milk thistle, celery seed extract, hawthorne berry, etc throughout, along with 2-3tbsp of flax oil daily.

Feedback?

Looks like everything seems to be in order as far as ur dosages, PCT, ect. Will you be keeping a log? Maybe i missed that if you had said it, if so my bad! Looks great tho bro!

 

[DR.D]

Yeah! Very well planned. I bet you reach your goal before the year is over.

 

[Beowulf]

I'm also contemplating dropping the 1,4 to 1g per day and extending the cycle from 60 to 70 days. This would allow me to run the SD and E...Max for 25 days each instead of 20.

 

[3clipseGT]

I'm also contemplating dropping the 1,4 to 1g per day and extending the cycle from 60 to 70 days. This would allow me to run the SD and E...Max for 25 days each instead of 20.

I like that idea as ud get more time on each compound. Now more doesnt always mean better, but in this case since you have ur PCT in order and all looks well , i think it does. :food:

 

[Beowulf]

Yeah, more definitely isn't necessarilly better, but with SD and Ergo I think 4 weeks seems ideal to solidify gains. If I'm gonna do it I might as well get the most out of it.

 

[milwood]

What's up, fictitious character!
I like divided doses on the 1,4 and 1g/day seems like a good number. And the cycle length looks good for a bulk, with 25 days each for SD and ergo as you've suggested. I don't yet know about whether it's better 30 days straight or with the 5 on/2 off dosing protocol for OT; the Hex and Ecto certainly are designed for that, but OT is not (as far as they are packaged and suggested to be dosed). Maybe someone who knows more can clear this up.

 

[ryansm]

I like the cycle, but I would flip the ergo and sd. Androgenic followed with anabolic, imo.

But I also think the 20 days is fine, but I guess 5 more days wouldn't hurt.

I am really interested to see what you get out of the IBE products. Certainly lookong forward to this one.:thumbsup:

 

[ryansm]

I'm also thinking you could start the Acitvate the last week of the orals/cycle, even the Fenotest

 

[Beowulf]

Gotcha, I'll probably start the Lean Extreme early, too.

Thanks, Ry

 

[SJA]

Just what I was thinking, and if you get freaky in the sack, just wear socks.

If it rubs a little on her, you may be surprised by a libido boost Better have PCT in order so you can keep up. :icon_lol:

BTW....your PCT is very similar to one that I'm currently doing. The only difference is that I have A-dex at .25mg/day for 2 weeks and then EOD instead of ATD. I also added MACA and Fenugreek (old guy supps) and do not have Activate...but am contemplating it. Thus far....BOOYA....good PCT. You should fair well my friend.

I would also recommend dosing the Hex and OT as I described in the IBE forum

 

[Atlas]

I also would go with the Ergo first and teh Superdrol seconds for the reason theat Ryanism said....it's like starting a cycle with Winny and ending on Dbol, just ain't right! LOL

 

[Beowulf]

That is funny, I was a bit confused when I read Ryan's post about flipping the EMax and SD. I was telling someone about this cycle today, and i told them EMax frst. Oversight on my part.

 

[Beowulf]

Revision of the Revision of the Revision

Days 1-72: 1,4 Andro 1G ED
Days 10-72: 400mg TD 4AD (starting this late b/c don't have enough)
Days 1-25: E...MAX LMG(20mg ED)
Days 47-72: Superdrol (20mg ED)
Days 52-82: Oratropin (3on-1off)
Days 72-82: Nolva 60mg; ATD 25mg
Days 83-93:Nolva 40mg; ATD 50mg
Days 94-104: Nolva 20mg; ATD 75mg
Days 105-115: ATD 75mg
Days 61-115: Activate
Days 72-115: DHEA 200mg daily (decrease 50mg every 10days)
Days 61-115: Fenotest
Days 61-115: Lean Extreme
Days 1-115: Glucophase

I will take milk thistle, celery seed extract, hawthorne berry, etc throughout, along with 2-3tbsp of flax oil daily.

I plan to start this cycle in mid-January. I think I am going to start cutting around New Year's, and ride the cut into the first 2 weeks of this cycle. I'm carrying more fat than I like too, and I will keep the cals high for the majority of this cycle, so I want to go into it pretty lean. Plus, if I come into the cycle on reduced cals it should set me up for major anabolic rebound :head:

 

[3clipseGT]

Days 1-72: 1,4 Andro 1G ED
Days 10-72: 400mg TD 4AD (starting this late b/c don't have enough)
Days 1-25: E...MAX LMG(20mg ED)
Days 47-72: Superdrol (20mg ED)
Days 52-82: Oratropin (3on-1off)
Days 72-82: Nolva 60mg; ATD 25mg
Days 83-93:Nolva 40mg; ATD 50mg
Days 94-104: Nolva 20mg; ATD 75mg
Days 105-115: ATD 75mg
Days 61-115: Activate
Days 72-115: DHEA 200mg daily (decrease 50mg every 10days)
Days 61-115: Fenotest
Days 61-115: Lean Extreme
Days 1-115: Glucophase

I will take milk thistle, celery seed extract, hawthorne berry, etc throughout, along with 2-3tbsp of flax oil daily.

I plan to start this cycle in mid-January. I think I am going to start cutting around New Year's, and ride the cut into the first 2 weeks of this cycle. I'm carrying more fat than I like too, and I will keep the cals high for the majority of this cycle, so I want to go into it pretty lean. Plus, if I come into the cycle on reduced cals it should set me up for major anabolic rebound :head:

Yea im doin the cutting cals on this cycle and then goin into a bulker. So hopefully it helps as well.

Great minds think alike. :twisted: :icon_lol:

 

[milwood]

I'm the oddball that likes to do SD first then end with Ergo. Just works better for me, but I understand why many people disagree.

 

[Beowulf]

Does anyone think I should dose letro or another AI while on cycle, to control potential estro issues from the 4AD and/or 1,4? W/IBE's sale going on, now would be the time to get it.

 

[bpmartyr]

I would keep it on hand and use only as needed. Letro is my weapon of choice.

 

[3clipseGT]

Does anyone think I should dose letro or another AI while on cycle, to control potential estro issues from the 4AD and/or 1,4? W/IBE's sale going on, now would be the time to get it.

Yea id def. keep something on hand as a precautionary measure. Especially with the sale going on, can never be to safe ya know.

 

[Beowulf]

I'll definitely have nolva, it just seems anecdotally that Letro is better for bloat, etc.

 

[DR.D]

Use letro or RXT on cycle. Avoid excessive use of Nolva if at all possible.

 

[Beowulf]

Thanks, Doc. I'm gonna use RXT running up to cycle and post. I picked up some letro from IBE's buy one get one free sale.

Anyone suggest a dosing plan. I'll look it up before the time comes, but if someone wants to help

 

[DR.D]

I use 0.1mg/day for every 600mg Test Enanthate (or equivalent)/wk. Basically, more that 0.25mg/d is just excessive in 90% of cases. I am really the only one that advocates such low doses though, so get a few more opinions my friend.

 

[3clipseGT]

Use letro or RXT on cycle. Avoid excessive use of Nolva if at all possible.

Hey Doc how come uve suggested this? Just outa curiosity, if i have say gyno probs, is it better to use nolva or RXT while on say a 14 week cycle, all the DS dudes say that crushing estro for longer then a month is not a good thing. What is so bad about nolva that it shouldnt be used if you have access to something else?

Thanks Doc!