Cyponate for first cycle? - AnabolicMinds.com

Cyponate for first cycle?

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    Cyponate for first cycle?


    I wanted to run test enan for 12 weeks at 500mg for my first cycle but my source says that he can only get test cyp. I've read so many people on this board and other boards starting their first cycle out with enan, is there any reason why i don't ever see people using cyp? And the age old question.. who has experience with both and which is better??

    thanks

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    they are effectively the same thing .. anyone that says they "feel" a difference is a liar
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    there is a difference the Ester, Cypionate half-life is like 2 days longer then Enthanate besides that their the same
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khyron
    there is a difference the Ester, Cypionate half-life is like 2 days longer then Enthanate besides that their the same
    If you want to get reaaallly picky, the ester chain weighs more for Cyp, thus resulting in less actual Test per ml than Enanthate.

    It's sooooo negligible I probably should never have mentioned it.

    There is really no dramatic difference. Go with it.
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    ^^

    yup, same deal bro
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    Same stuff dude. I did a profile on the two a while back. Do a search and you should find it fairly easily. If I have time, I'll try to find it and link it up here. It's just one is European and the other American. There is a very slight difference and you would not be able to tell them apart.
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    It's funny sometimes what you read, I've came across some bull**** on a source website a while back, saying that " test cypionate is superior and should provide a little more kick than other test " WTF ????
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    Here's the read I found on Test Enan:

    One of the many testosterone substances available today is the testosterone enanthate. Testosterone enanthate is an oil based injectable steroid, designed to release testosterone slowly from the injection site (depot). Once administered, serum concentrations of this hormone will rise for several days, and remain markedly elevated for approximately two weeks. It may actually take three weeks for the action of this drug to fully diminish. For medical purposes this is the most widely prescribed testosterone. In men it is normally used to treat hypogonadism resulting from androgen deficiency and anemia.

    Testosterone enanthate is the European answer to Testosterone cypionate which is predominantly available in the U.S. Testosterone enanthate, as most trade names already suggest, is a long-acting depot steroid. Depending on the metabolism and the body's initial hormone level it’s duration is two to three weeks so that theoretically very long intervals between injections are possible. Although Testosterone enanthate is effective for several weeks, it is injected at least once a week in body-building, powerlifting, and weightlifting. This, by all means, makes sense since Testosterone enanthate has a plasma half-life time in the blood of only slightly longer than one week.

    The decisive advantage of Testosterone enanthate, however, is that this substance has a very strong androgenic effect and is coupled with an intense anabolic component. This allows almost everyone, within a short time, to build up a lot of strength and mass. The rapid and strong weight gain is combined with a distinct retention of electrolytes and water. A pleasant effect is that the enormous strength gain goes hand in hand with the water retention. Weightlifters and powerlifters, especially in the higher weight classes, appreciate this characteristic. In this group, Testosterone enanthate, Testosterone cypionate, and Sustanon are the number one steroids; this is also clearly reflected in the dosages. Dosages of 500 mg, 1000 mg or even 2000 mg PER DAY, not per week, are no rarity. Sports disciplines requiring a high degree of raw power, aggressiveness, and stamina offer an excellent application for Depot-Testosterone. The distinct water retention has also other advantages. Those who have problems with their joints, shoulder cartilages or whose intervertebral disks, due to years of heavy training, show the first signs of wear, can get temporary relief by taking testosterone.

    An additional problem when taking Testosterone enanthate is that the conversion rate to estrogen is very high. This, on one hand, leads the body to store more fat; on the other hand, feminization symptoms (gynecomastia) are not unusual. However, it must be clearly stated that this depends on the athlete's predisposition. There are athletes who show no feminization symptoms or fat deposits and who suffer very low water retention even with 1000 mg +/week. Others, however, develop pain in their nipples at even the lowest dose. The use of Nolvadex and Proviron should be considered at a dosage level of 500 mg+ /week. Testosterone enanthate also strongly promotes the regeneration process. This leads to distinctly shorter overcompensation phases, an increased feeling of well-being, and a distinct energy increase. This is also the reason why several athletes are able to work out twice daily for several hours six times a week and continue to build up mass and strength. Athletes who take Testosterone enanthate report an excessively strong pump effect during training. This "steroid pump" is attributed to an increased blood volume with a higher oxygen supply and a higher quantity of red blood cells. Those who take megadoses of Testosterone enanthate will already feel an enormous pump in their upper thighs and calves when climbing stairs.

    For adding mass Testosterone enanthate combines very well with Anadrol 50, Dianabol and Deca-Durabolin. As an example, a stack of 100 mg Anadrol 50/day, 200 mgs Deca-Durabolin/ week, and 500 mgs Testosterone enanthate/week works well. After six weeks of intake the Anadrol 50, for example, could be replaced by 40 mg Dianabol/day. Principally, Testosterone enanthate can be combined with any steroid in order to gain mass. Apparently a synergetic effect between the androgen, Testosterone enanthate, and the anabolic steroids occurs which results in their bonding witli several receptors.Those who draw too much water with Testosterone enanthate and Dianabol or Anadrol, or who are more interested in strength without gaining 20 pounds of body weight should take Testosterone enanthate together with Oxandrolone and Trenl. The generally taken dose-as already mentioned-varies from 250 mg/ week up to 2000 mg/day. In our opinion the most sensible dosage for most athletes is between 250-1000 mg/week. Normally a higher dosage should not be necessary When taking up to 500 mg/week the dosage is normally taken all at once, thus 2 ml of solution are injected. A higher dosage should be divided into two injections per week. The quantity of the dose should be determined by the athlete's developmental stage, his goals, and the quantity of his previous steroid intake. The so called beach- and disco bodybuilders do not need 1000 mg of Testosterone enanthate/week. Our experience is that the Testosterone enanthate dosage for many, above all, depends on their financial resources.

    The side effects of Testosterone enanthate are mostly the distinct androgenic effect and the increased water retention. This is usually the reason for the frequent occurrence of hypertony. Those who have a predisposition for high blood pressure or whose blood pressure is elevated when they begin taking Testosterone enanthate should have it periodically checked by a physician. If necessary the intake of an antihypertensive drug such as Catapresan is advisable. Many athletes experience a strong acne with Testosterone enanthate which manifests itself on the back, chest, shoulders, and arms more than on the face. Athletes who take large quantities of Testo can often be easily recognized because of these characteristics. It is interesting to note that in some athletes these characteristics only occur after use of the compound has been discontinued, which implies a rebound effect. Sexual overstimulation with frequent erections at the beginning of intake is normal. In young athletes, "in addition to virilization,testosterone can also lead to an accelerated growth and bone maturation, to a premature epiphysial closing of the growth plates and thus a lower height" (Jenapharm GmbH, package insert for Testosteron-Depot).'

    Other possible side effects are testicular atrophy, reduced spermatogenesis, and especially an increased aggressiveness. Those who transfer this aggressiveness to their training and not their environment do not have to worry. Unfortunately this is not the case in some athletes who take Testosterone enanthate. Testoster-one and Finaject are both primary reasons for some eruptions. In particular, high doses are in part responsible for anti-social behavior among its users. One can talk here of a sort of "superman syndrome" that occurs in some users. Although Testosterone enanthate is broken down through the liver, this compound is only slightly toxic when taken in a reasonable dose; therefore, changes of the liver values do not occur as often as with the oral 17-alpha alkylated steroids. Further potential side effects can be deep voice and accelerated hair loss.

    Here's a read on Test Cyp:

    American athletes have a long, fond relationship with Testosterone cypionate. While Testosterone enanthate is manufactured widely throughout the world, Testosterone cypionate seems to be predominantly an American item. It is therefore not surprising that American athletes particularly favor this Testosterone ester. But many claim this is not just a matter of simple pride, often swearing Testosterone cypionate to be a superior product, providing a bit more of a “kick? than Testosterone enanthate. At the same time it is said to produce a slightly higher level of water retention, but not enough for it to be easily discerned, of course when we look at the situation objectively, we see these two steroids are really interchangeable, and Testosterone cypionate is not at all superior. Both Testosterone products are long acting oil-based injectables, which will keep Testosterone levels sufficiently elevated for approximately two weeks. Testosterone enanthate may be slightly better in terms of Testosterone release, as this ester is one carbon atom lighter than Testosterone cypionate. The difference is so insignificant however that no one can rightly claim it to be noticeable.

    Testosterone is the prime male androgen in the body, and as such still the best possible mass builder in the world. It has a high risk of side-effects because it readily converts to a more androgenic form (DHT) in androgen responsive tissues and forms estrogen quite easily. But these characteristics also provide it with its extreme anabolic tendencies. On the one hand estrogen increases growth hormone output, glucose utilization, improves immunity and upgrades the androgen receptor, while on the other hand a testosterone/DHT combination is extremely potent at activating the androgen receptor and eliciting major strength and size gains. While not always the most visually appealing result, there is no steroid on earth that packs on mass like testosterone does.

    Testosterone Cypionate is a single-ester, long-acting form of testosterone. Due to the length of its ester (8 carbons) it is stored mostly in the adipose tissue upon intra-musuclar injection, and then slowly but very steadily released over a certain period of time. A peak is noted after 24-48 hours of injection and then a slow decline, reaching a steady point after 12 days and staying there for over 3 weeks time. Users will not find adequate benefit in the use of this steady-point dose, so this product is normally injected once a week, making the very lowest dose higher than half the peak dose at any given time.

    Testosterone cypionate can be combined with many steroids and thus making it an excellent mass steroid. As with enanthate the dosage range is 250-1000 mg/week.

    It is also important to remember that the use of an injectable Testosterone will quickly suppress endogenous Testosterone production. It may therefore be good advice to use a Testosterone stimulating drug like HCG and/or Clomid/Nolvadex at the conclusion of a cycle. This should help the user avoid a strong Testosterone “crash? due to hormonal imbalance, which can strip away much of the new muscle mass and strength.

    Side effects with this product are the same as with any other testosterone (ie. Water retention and related hypertension, male pattern baldness, acne, etc)


    Some may or may not agree with some of the statements regarding doses and such. I'm just using this find as an example.
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    Here's a read posted a long time ago here on AM. I'll post it in its entirety so you can see the different esters and what they do. Hope this helps as well.


    Testosterone Ester Report

    One of the most misunderstood subjects in the world of steroids is the ester--the mechanism by which injectable esterified steroids like testosterone cypionate, testosterone enanthate, and Sustanon work. If you take a quick look around the Internet you will probably find countless articles that consider one form of a steroid far more effective than another. Arguments over the superiority of cypionate to enanthate, or Sustanon to all other testosterones are of course very common. Such arguments are in all practicality, baseless. In this report we'll take an authoritative look at the ester and what specifically it does to a steroid.

    WHAT AN ESTER IS, AND HOW IT WORKS
    I'm sure that if you have taken an interest in anabolic steroids you have noticed the similarities on the labeling of many drugs. Let's look at testosterone for example. One can find compounds like testosterone cypionate, enanthate, propionate, heptylate; caproate, phenylpropionate, isocaproate, decanoate, acetate, the list goes on and on. In all such cases the parent hormone is testosterone, which had been modified by adding an ester (enanthate, propionate etc.) to its structure. The following question arises: What is the difference between the various esterified versions of testosterone in regards to their use in bodybuilding?

    An ester is a chain composed primarily of carbon and hydrogen atoms. This chain is typically attached to the parent steroid hormone at the 17th carbon position (beta orientation), although some compounds do carry esters at position 3 (for the purposes of this article it is not crucial to understand the exact position of the ester). Esterification of an injectable anabolic/androgenic steroid basically accomplishes one thing, it slows the release of the parent steroid from the site of injection. This happens because the ester will notably lower the water solubility of the steroid, and increase its lipid (fat) solubility. This will cause the drug to form a deposit in the muscle tissue, from which it will slowly enter into circulation as it is picked up in small quantities by the blood. Generally, the longer the ester chain, the lower the water solubility of the compound, and the longer it will take to for the full dosage to reach general circulation.

    Slowing the release of the parent steroid is a great benefit in steroid medicine, as free testosterone (or other steroid hormones) previously would remain active in the body for a very short period of time (typically hours). This would necessitate an unpleasant daily injection schedule if one wished to maintain a continuous elevation of testosterone (the goal of testosterone replacement therapy). By adding an ester, the patient can visit the doctor as infrequently as once per month for his injection, instead of having to constantly re-administer the drug to achieve a therapeutic effect. Clearly without the use of an ester, therapy with an injectable anabolic/androgen would be much more difficult.

    Esterification temporarily deactivates the steroid molecule. With a chain blocking the 17th beta position, binding to the androgen receptor is not possible (it can exert no activity in the body). In order for the compound to become active the ester must therefore first be removed. This automatically occurs once the compound has filtered into blood circulation, where esterase enzymes quickly cleave off (hydrolyze) the ester chain. This will restore the necessary hydroxyl (OH) group at the 17th beta position, enabling the drug to attach to the appropriate receptor. Now and only now will the steroid be able to have an effect on skeletal muscle tissue. You can start to see why considering testosterone cypionate much more potent than enanthate makes little sense, as your muscles are seeing only free testosterone no matter what ester was used to deploy it.

    ACTIONS OF DIFFERENT ESTERS
    There are many different esters that are used with anabolic/androgenic steroids, but again, they all do basically the same thing. Esters vary only in their ability to reduce a steroid's water solubility. An ester like propionate for example will slow the release of a steroid for a few days, while the duration will be weeks with a decanoate ester. Esters have no effect on the tendency for the parent steroid to convert to estrogen or DHT (dihydrotestosterone: a more potent metabolite) nor will it effect the overall muscle-building potency of the compound. Any differences in results and side effects that may be noted by bodybuilders who have used various esterified versions of the same base steroid are just issues of timing. Testosterone enanthate causes estrogen related problems more readily than Sustanon, simply because with enanthate testosterone levels will peak and trough much sooner (1-2 week release duration as opposed to 3 or 4). Likewise testosterone suspension is the worst in regards to gyno and water bloat because blood hormone levels peak so quickly with this drug. Instead of waiting weeks for testosterone levels to rise to their highest point, here we are at most looking at a couple of days. Given an equal blood level of testosterone, there would be no difference in the rate of aromatization or DHT conversion between different esters. There is simply no mechanism for this to be possible.

    There is however one way that we can say an ester does technically effect potency; it is calculated in the steroid weight. The heavier the ester chain, the greater is its percentage of the total weight. In the case of testosterone enanthate for example, 250mg of esterified steroid (testosterone enanthate) is equal to only 180mg of free testosterone. 70mgs out of each 250mg injection is the weight of the ester. If we wanted to be really picky, we could consider enanthate slightly MORE potent than cypionate (I know this goes against popular thinking) as its ester chain contains one less carbon atom (therefore taking up a slightly smaller percentage of total weight). Propionate would of course come out on top of the three, releasing a measurable (but not significant) amount more testosterone per injection than cypionate or enanthate.

    IN CONCLUSION
    While the advent of esters certainly constitutes an invaluable advance in the field of anabolic steroid medicine, clearly you can see that there is no magic involved here. Esters work in a well-understood and predictable manner, and do not alter the activity of the parent steroid in any way other than to delay its release. Although the lure surrounding various steroid products like testosterone cypionate, Sustanon, Omnadren etc. certainly makes for interesting conversation, realistically it just amounts to misinformation that the athlete would be better off ignoring. Testosterone is testosterone and anyone who is going to tell you one ester form of this (or any) hormone is much better than another one should do a little more research, and a lot less talking.

    ESTER PROFILES
    Sustanon: The "king" of testosterone blends.
    The four different testosterone esters in this product certainly look appealing to the consumer, there is no denying that. But for the athlete I think it is all just a matter of marketing (Hell, why buy one ester when you can get four?). In clinical situations I can see some strong uses for it. If you were undergoing testosterone replacement therapy for example, you would probably find Sustanon a much more comfortable option than testosterone enanthate. You would need to visit the doctor less frequently for an injection, and blood levels should be more steadily maintained between treatments. But for the bodybuilder who is injecting 4 ampules of Sustanon per week, there is no advantage over other testosterone products. In fact, the high price tag for Sustanon usually makes it a very poor buy in the face of cheaper testosterone enanthate/cypionate. Bodybuilders should probably stop looking at the four ester issue, and stick with totals (Sustanon is just a 250mg testosterone ampule). Were enanthate to be available for say $10 per amp of 250mg, and Sustanon priced nearly double that, buying the Sustanon would be like throwing money away. If you could get nearly double the milligram amount for the same price with enanthate, this is the better product to go with hands down. Leave the high priced stuff for the guys who don't know any better.

    Acetate: Chemical Structure C2H4O2.
    Also referred to as Acetic Acid; Ethylic acid; Vinegar acid; vinegar; Methanecarboxylic acid. Acetate esters delay the release of a steroid for only a couple of days. Contrary to what you may have read, acetate esters do not increase the tendency for fat removal. Again, there is no known mechanism for it to do so. This ester is used on oral primobolan tablets (metenolone acetate), Finaplix (trenbolone acetate) implant pellets, and occasionally testosterone.

    Propionate: Chemical Structure C3H6O2.
    Also referred to as Carboxyethane; hydroacrylic acid; Methylacetic acid; Ethylformic acid; Ethanecarboxylic acid; metacetonic acid; pseudoacetic acid; Propionic Acid. Propionate esters will slow the release of a steroid for several days. To keep blood levels from fluctuating greatly, propionate compounds are usually injected two to three times weekly. Testosterone propionate and methandriol dipropionate (two separate propionate esters attached to the parent steroid methandriol) are popular items.

    Phenylpropionate: Chemical Structure C9H10O2.
    Also referred to as Propionic Acid Phenyl Ester. Phenylpropionate will extend the release of active steroid a few days longer than propionate. To keep blood levels even, injections are given at least twice weekly. Durabolin is the drug most commonly seen with a phenylpropionate ester (nandrolone phenylpropionate), although it is also used with testosterone in Sustanon and Omnadren.

    Isocarpoate: Chemical Structure C6H12O2.
    Also referred to as Isocaproic Acid; isohexanoate; 4-methylvaleric acid. Isocaproate begins to near enanthate in terms of release. The duration is still shorter, with a notable hormone level being sustained for approximately one week. This ester is used with testosterone in the blended products Sustanon and Omnadren.

    Caproate: Chemical Structure C6H12O2.
    Also referred to as Hexanoic acid; hexanoate; n-Caproic Acid; n-Hexoic acid; butylacetic acid; pentiformic acid; pentylformic acid; n-hexylic acid; 1-pentanecarboxylic acid; hexoic acid; 1-hexanoic acid; Hexylic acid; Caproic acid. This ester is identical to isocarpoate in terms of atom count and weight, but is laid out slightly different (Isocaproate has a split configuration, difficult to explain here but easy to see on paper). Release duration would be very similar to isocaproate (levels sustained for approximately one weak), perhaps coming slightly closer to enanthate due to its straight chain. Caproate is the slowest releasing ester used in Omnadren, which is why most athletes notice more water retention with this compound.

    Enanthate: Chemical Structure C7H14O2.
    Also referred to as heptanoic acid; enanthic acid; enanthylic acid; heptylic acid; heptoic acid; Oenanthylic acid; Oenanthic acid. Enanthate is one of the most prominent esters used in steroid manufacture (most commonly seen with testosterone but is also used in other compounds like Primobolan Depot). Enanthate will release a steady (yet fluctuating as all esters are) level of hormone for approximately 10-14 days. Although in medicine enanthate compounds are often injected on a bi-weekly or monthly basis, athletes will inject at least weekly to help maintain a uniform blood level.

    Cypionate: Chemical Structure C8H14O2.
    Also referred to as Cyclopentylpropionic acid, cyclopentylpropionate. Cypionate is a very popular ester here in the U.S., although it is scarcely found outside this region. Its release duration is almost identical to enanthate (10-14 days), and the two are likewise thought to be interchangeable in U.S. medicine. Althletes commonly hold the belief than cypionate is more powerful than enanthate, although realistically there is little difference between the two. The enanthate ester is in fact slightly smaller than cypionate, and it therefore releases a small (perhaps a few milligrams) amount of steroid more in comparison.

    Decanoate: Chemical Structure C10H20O2.
    Also referred to as decanoic acid; capric acid; caprinic acid; decylic acid, Nonanecarboxylic acid. The Decanoate ester is most commonly used with the hormone nandrolone (as in Deca-Durabolin) and is found in virtually all corners of the world. Testosterone decanoate is also the longest acting constituent in Sustanon, greatly extending its release duration. The release time with Decanoate compounds is listed to be as long as one month, although most recently we are finding that levels seem to drop significantly after two weeks. To keep blood levels more uniform, athletes (as they have always known to do) will follow a weekly injection schedule.

    Undecylenate: Chemical Structure C11H20O2.
    Also referred to as Undecylenic acid; Hendecenoic acid; Undecenoic acid. This ester is very similar to decanoate, containing only one carbon atom more. Its release duration is likewise very similar (approximately 2-3 weeks), perhaps extending a day or so past that seen with decanoate. Undecylenate seems to be exclusive to the veterinary preparation Equipoise (boldenone undecylenate), although there is no reason it would not work well in human-use preparations (Equipoise certainly works fine for athletes). Again, weekly injections are most common.

    Undecanoate: Chemical Structure C11H22O2.
    Also referred to as Undecanoic Acid; 1-Decanecarboxylic acid; Hendecanoic acid; Undecylic acid. Undecanoate is not a commonly found ester, and only appears to be used in the nandrolone preparation Dynabolan, and oral testosterone undecanoate (Andriol). Since this ester is chemically very similar to undecylenate (it is only 2 hydrogen atoms larger), it has a similar release duration (approximately 2-3 weeks). Although this ester is used in the oral preparation Andriol, there is no reason to believe it carries any properties unique of other esters. Andriol in fact works very poorly at delivering testosterone, bolstering the idea that oral administration is not the idea use of esterified androgens.

    Laurate: Chemical structure C12H24O2.
    Also referred to as Dodecanoic acid, laurostearic acid, duodecyclic acid, 1-undecanecarboxylic acid, and dodecoic acid. Laurate is the longest releasing ester used in commercial steroid production, although longer acting esters do exist. Its release duration would be closer to one month than the other esters listed above, although realistically we are probably to expect a notable drop in hormone level after the third week. Laurate is exclusively found in the veterinary nandrolone preparation Laurabolin, perhaps seen as slightly advantageous over a decanoate ester due to a less frequent injection schedule. Again athletes will most commonly inject this drug weekly, no doubt in part due to its low strength (25mg/ml or 50mg/ml).
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    wow, thanks guys for all the imput i appreciate it... My source says that i get 10 shots per vial and to go by that and not by say 500mg a week. I asked him to tell me how many mg/cc each shot was and he had no idea what i was talking about, so i guess i have to figure that out on my own when i get it?
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