Can I get some feedback on the prostate and steroid use one more time....

[windwords7]

As many of you old timers know, I have been wrestling a prostate problem for 9 months now. Today I went to one of the premier hospitals in the entire world to see a specialist of specialists in Urology. Once again I told him about my use of androgens and once again even this guy, a freaking genius, said that he does not believe that it is related to my very long battle with prostate issues. I told him how when I introduced androgens back into my system that it really aggravated the problem again but his feeling was that it was not the root problem but rather an aggravator of an existing problem.

Vet's, bro's, friends, please give me some feedback! I so desperate to know what the hell is going on and whether or not I can look to getting back "on" ever again! Thanks for your help!

BTW I am back on another 6 week course of antibiotics and may have to look at some other phsyical issues (a camera up my dick and into the bladder) if this does not work.

 

[windwords7]

Bump for some feedback brothers.

 

[WYD02]

I still dont think they are the cause of prostate problems... I think it might aggravate it as your doctor mentioned. I don't know how much help we can be... I mean, hell you talked the head man over there huh

 

[windwords7]

Thanks Matt. Anyone else have any thoughts?

 

[Rhapsody]

Can you explain what exactly is happening to you when you say you've had "prostate problems" for the past 9 years?

 

[windwords7]

Not 9 years Rhap! 9 months! Man, 9 years, that would be death! Ive had all the tale tale signs: Pain and pressure in the perneum, frequency with urination, pain with urination, testicular pain, etc. I fit the bill to a tee.

 

[pogue]

Not 9 years Rhap! 9 months! Man, 9 years, that would be death! Ive had all the tale tale signs: Pain and pressure in the perneum, frequency with urination, pain with urination, testicular pain, etc. I fit the bill to a tee.

Were you taking any other medications when these problems started? Antihistmines and a variety of other drugs can cause prostate problems.

If you are looking for a solution, there are some natural herbs that I could look into that might help alleviate the pain and urination problems.

Tell us more about your symptoms, and what you've taken in the past to try and solve it. Also what androgens were you using.

 

[windwords7]

Ive taken everything! There is nothing that I know of that I have not tried.

 

[pogue]

from the book "natural healing with herbs" by humbart santillo, nd

prostatitis

principal therapy - blood purification

Use the hydrotherapy and dietary suggestions given under the treatment for herpes.

A. Internal: Pipsissewa tincture, twenty five drops three times a day is an excellent remedy for this condition, while drinking three cups of slippery elm tea daily. Make sure to use cool water enemas daily until the inflammation subsides. Adding three ounces of liquid chlorophyll or two cups of slippery elm tea to your retention enema water will reduce inflammations and swelling.

B. Internal: mix together the following:

1 part gravel root
1 part plantain
1 part echinacea
1 part parsley root
1/4 part giner root
1 part buchu
1/2 part lobelia

Use one ounce of the herbs to a pint of water. Make a decoction and drink one half cup three times daily, add honey to taste, or put powdered herbs in #00 capsules and take two, three times a day.

C. Internal: Drink two ouces of fresh parsley juice daily, morning and evening. It can be mixed with apple juice.

D. Internal: Take echinacea and chaparral capsules. Alternate them two every two hours during inflammation. Then reduce to two every four hours when inflammation subsides.

E: External: Sit in a cool (80 degrees or below) tub of water one-half hour morning and night. Add a strong infusion of uva ursi to the bath water. (See formula C under Acne and Skin Diseases)

Another good remedy is saw palmetto. The tincture can be taken in doses of fifteen to twenty drops or the extract five to ten drops taken in water four times daily is an excellent remedy. It can be taken every hour during inflammatory stages.

Hydrotherapy: Cool, whole baths or sitz baths taken in the morning for ten minutes before exercising can be taken daily. These baths will stimulate gonad secretions. Two cups of epsom salts added to warm whole baths with the addition of steam baths can be taken three times a week to promote sweating. Diaphoretic and stimulating teas can be taken before baths to assist in elimination. After the baths, dry the body with a brisk towel rubbing.

More prostate herbs:
corn silk
Cleavers (galium aparine)
Pygeum Africanum Bark
Lycopene
Stinging Nettle

Now's Prostate Support looks like a good formula to try if you want to just try one thing. It has a couple of those and saw palmetto, plus some vitamins.

If you want me to look up the herpes dietary recommendations in the book I can.

 

[WYD02]

You should probably let them know all the stuff you've tried.... and guys, he's tried alot..lemme tell ya

 

[Dio]

Jake,

I've said this to you before but it bears repeating: forget about androgens. I'm surprised to see that your doctors still aren't drawing a link between the use of androgens, but most know very little about them and their possible effects.

Even if it is a coincidence that your problems started with using androgens (I don't think it is), they will only aggravate your condition.

I realize that it's disappointing to have to write them off, but your health is much more important.

You may want to try getting a hold of nandi, to see if he knows anything. He recently posted some stuff on avants board that I was unware of, regarding prostate treatments.

 

[windwords7]

Thanks Rhap for all your time last night on IM.

Dio, I have not used Androgens sense and I do hear what your saying. I'm just suprised by the lack of concern by the Doctor's, especially this doctor, that they have had anything to do with my problem. I will check out Nandi as well.

 

[Greenguy]

Did you ask the genius specialist Doctor if you could ever take PH/steroids again?

What did he say?

With all due respect to the "Bros", I wouldn't take their medical advice over that of an elite specialist practicing at a highly respected hospital.

Everything I have read from medical experts would strongly advise against the use of androgens by anyone with prostate illness.

Greenguy

 

[Dio]

Dio, I have not used Androgens sen3e and I do hear what your saying. I'm just suprised by the lack of concern by the Doctor's, especially this doctor, that they have had anything to do with my problem. I will check out Nandi as well.

I'm a little surprised too, but again a lot of these guys only look at things from the most common angles. Unless, he or any other doctor has experience or interest in patients who've used steroids he's probably likely to overlook their significance.

Good luck.

 

[Dio]

Did you ask the genius specialist Doctor if you could ever take PH/steroids again?

What did he say?

With all due respect to the "Bros", I wouldn't take their medical advice over that of an elite specialist practicing at a highly respected hospital.

Everything I have read from medical experts would strongly advise against the use of androgens by anyone with prostate illness.

Greenguy

While I agree with your conclusion, you need to reread the thread. No one here is advocating further androgen use.

 

[inertia]

i feel for you WW,i have had prostate problems before and its not a good experience.my prostate would burn all to hell ,but it only happened when i urinated so it wasnt so bad . my doc checked for cancers and that bacteria and simply told me to drink lts of water or get some ugly tests. came to find out NOTHING was the problem,no cancer,no bacteria, and they were going to have to stick probes and have possibly surgery.being young and stupid i started a cycle of PHs,ya-which only aggravated it more.stupid move!

long story short-i figured i would go on with life and try some natural herbs as remedies.and at the same time planning for my first cycle of aas.nothing could make it worse than it was and i had nothing to lose.

well a year went by and my prostate was just as bad.so i began using gear,taking saw palmetto,drinking more water ect....i dont know what happened but my prostate was relieved from that point on and it was not the SP.i have not had a prostate problem since and i feel awesome but maybe some frequent urination.call it a miracle or whatever you want but i have not had any sort of prostate probs in a long,long time.i was taking EQ,sust and winny.i wish i could tell you why this happened or help your situation but i cannot explain it.but i do know what you are going through,and it sux.

im NOT saying gear would cure your problem and it could make it worse.but what i am saying is that theres hope.i hope you get it situated before you begin your cycle.the doctors gave me no answers.

peace

 

[Dio]

Jake,

There's some info starting towards the middle of this thread that you might be interested in:

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/avantforum/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=2741&st=0&#entry31863

 

[hamper19]

exessive accumulation of DHT?

 

i mean seriously..there has to be some kind of link to the use of androgens.  If one of the treatments for BPH is an

ANTI-androgen   then.....well its at least worth looking into.

 

h19

 

[ShadowJack]

Jake, you can also contact nandi at cuttingedgemuscle. That is his home board. From his posts on Avant's site, he is highly intelligent. Dio has a very good idea in running this by him.

------------------------------------------------------

If I recall properly, your first symptoms showed up right after you finished a Tren-X cycle last spring/summer, didn't they?

 

[nandi12]

ww7 asked if I could put in my 2 cents worth. I suffered from an enlarged prostate for about 2 years. I was using over a gram of test/week at the time. This was about 10 years ago. I let the problem go until I got a bladder infection from urinary retention. I was a mess. I did not tell the doc it was from AAS. I told him I was a professional bicycle racer and spent hours every day in the saddle. He said, oh that probably explains it. I have a couple of bicycle racers for patients.

He put me on cipro for a month to clear up the prostate/urinary tract infection. Then he put me on a course of Hytrin and Proscar. At the time it was thought that Hytrin only relaxes the bladder sphincter muscles so you can pee. It turns out now it can actually shrink the prostate, as can Proscar. I took the Hytrin for a year, Proscar for two years. My bladder muscles hypertrophied from straining to pee, so I still have to get up a couple of times during the night to pee.

Antihistamines can cause the sphincter muscles to constrict, making it harder to pee and mimicking the symptoms of BPH. Ephedrine can do that as well as actually enlarge the prostate.

You could very well have an infection along with the enlarged prostate. That is very common. You should insist that he treat you with Hytrin or Flomax and Proscar, or find a urologist that will.

I use AAS all the time now, but just don't use a lot of test. DHT is the worst offender, but other androgens may cause it as well. There is just not much research in this field. But I would seriously avoid any AAS until you get this cleared up

There are genetic factors that predispose to BPH. The androgen receptor has a slightly different structure in different people. Technically it has to do with the number of CAG nucleotide repeats on your androgen receptor gene. The fewer repeats they have, the more sensitive the AR is, and a lot of studies have linked this to the liklihood of getting BPH and/or cancer.

Right now you need to get any infection cleared up, and get some proscar and hytrin/flomax from the doctor, or another one.

The doc may want to scope you. Mine did. The thought of it is worse than the procedure. That was how he saw my bladder was hypertrophied.

I hope this helped. If I can provide any other info based on my experiences with what you are going through, email is [email protected].

 

[windwords7]

Nandi, thank you very much for the reply. Please don't be a stranger here AM, you input would be greatly appreciated. I have the proscar and I have the Anti-biotics. He wrote me a scrip for Detrol not Hytrin/Flomax. Any thoughts on Detrol?

 

[nandi12]

Well, if he gave a prescription for proscar then he is assuming (presumably from the finger in the rectum check) that you have BPH. Detrol is not going to treat the BPH, but it should help the symptoms of frequent urination. I'm not going to second guess the doc, but I would have prescribed Flomax instead or in addition to the Detrol, along with the proscar. I would ask about it next time I saw the doctor.

Good luck. I know how miserable it be, especially if you have an infection along with the BPH.

 

[WYD02]

Just another tidbit, For pain relief...my doctor gave me a prescription of Vioxx to deal with it...I never used it as OTC uristat worked great. I recommended it to Jake back in the day and I think he found some relief from it as well... for anyone who has a condition...it might become your friend BTW, My diagnosis was a prostate infection.

 

[windwords7]

Yes, for temp relief of pain and frequency peredium (sp?) the active ingredient in uristat is fantastic. It's a part of my life line when things are going badly.

 

[nandi12]

BTW, My diagnosis was a prostate infection.

It's not unusal, especially in younger guys, for an infection to develop in the prostate because of the hypertrophy causing urinary retention. This causes general bladder and urinary tract infection, that spreads to the prostate. In fact, from what my doc told me, most people come to the urologist because of the symptoms of prostate/urinary tract infection, and then upon exam it is discovered the prostate is enlarged.

Of course, it is also possible to have a prostate infection without BPH, and vice versa. In jake's case, the painful urination suggests an infection.

Prostate infections can be tough to treat because the antibiotics don't penetrate the prostate well.

Hopefully, the antibiotics will clear up the infection, and the Proscar will shrink the prostate

 

[WYD02]

Thanks Nandi..

My symptoms were burning, not only during urination, but all the time. The pain usually lasted about an hour or two and then subsided depending on what I did. My prostate was not enlarged nor did I have trouble urinating...just got infected ...

Cipro for like 3 months or so cleared it up pretty well. It is rare now if I experience pain.

 

[bsder]

Wind - thanks for hooking up my account.

I don't pretend to know anything, but I've had a couple of incidents that seemed like prostate flare-ups myself. The first time was a period of a couple of months at a time before I even heard of prohormones. The second time was while on prohormones (now).

This is my second cycle of 200/200mg 1-test/4ad. The first time, no hint of a problem. This time I had an instantaneous spring-up of symptoms at about day 7. Symptoms include frequent urination and weak stream.
I've always had the feeling that this was something other than prostate (now that I have medical insurance and am much more health conscious I will have it checked out).

I noticed a correlation between the flare up and groin pain during heavy (probably too heavy because my abs are a bit out of shape) deadlifts .

Then I found this article:
http://www.prostatitis.org/muscle.html

Don't yet know what to think of this, but I thought I'd add it to the mix because it seems interesting., especially for those whose doctors find no prostate enlargement.

The jist of the article is that (and this is just a hypothesis) prostatis symptoms may occur because of dysfunction of:
1. Iliopsoas muscle
2. Pectineus muscle
3. Muscles (and nerves) surrounding the above

 

[ex_banana-eater]

BTW I am back on another 6 week course of antibiotics and may have to look at some other phsyical issues (a camera up my dick and into the bladder) if this does not work.

I will be praying for your recovery, bro

 

[windwords7]

Hello everyone who as been so gracious to post on this thread. I want to let you know what's happening since I've seen the specialist at Oregon Health Science University.

His first move was to put me on a new anti-biotic called Levaquin for 6 weeks. Well I've been on it for 15 days or so now and I am getting better! To think that this has been bacterial still after 9 months is amazing to me! Even more my other Urologist sent me home and said there was nothing else he could do, the bastard!

I am nearly pain free and my frequency of urination is cut down to half of what it was or even less! I don't get up in the night anymore I just plain feel great! Hopeful the next month of meds will see total recovery. I'm considering going back on Proscar as well.

Just wanted to let you know! I will keep you updated.

WW7

 

[ShadowJack]

Great news, Jake!

Hope your recovery continues on the fast track.

 

[windwords7]

Well Ive been on the antibiotics for 3 weeks now and they are brutal on the body! Man it sucks. I started Flomax 2 days ago and it has helped A LOT!!! Nandi you were spot on there my friend. I have felt immediate relief in frequency and stream flow from taking the Flomax. I have proscar too but will wait awhile before adding another drug into the several I am taking. So I fell better over all but stomach still aches quite a bit and I'm hoping that I have not done permanant damage to my bladder like Nandi spoke of.

 

[windwords7]

Originally posted by ShadowJack
Great news, Jake!

Hope your recovery continues on the fast track.

Thanks bro. I am now almost through my fourth week of antibiotics and feeling better each week. As I stated before I started a new drug, flomax, that had helped A TON. Hopefully in a month or two I will be completely better! Thanks for all the kind words of support over the last 10 months. It's been a long battle but I am prevailing day by day.

 

[jweave23]

Good to hear some positive results Jake! I wish you the best and hope that your recovery is as quick as possible with the new meds. It has been a long battle, but you will win!!

 

[windwords7]

Originally posted by jweave23
Good to hear some positive results Jake! I wish you the best and hope that your recovery is as quick as possible with the new meds. It has been a long battle, but you will win!!

Thanks Jesse!

 

[windwords7]

Ive been on flomax at maximum dosages for the last 2 and half weeks and I feel great! I am the best I have been in nearly 1 year and im also on day 11 of my current TNE/Deca base dermal cycle. Thanks to everyone that has helped along the way!