Taking oral AAS for first 2 weeks of PH PCT...good idea?
- 08-21-2005, 10:29 PM
Taking oral AAS for first 2 weeks of PH PCT...good idea?
The point is that orals degrade quickly, so if you take them in the morning they flush out by night time without causing any additional suppression of your T-levels.
The benefits are that you can maintain mass during PCT.
I read something like this in a Steroid FAQ type document...ah F it...I'll just post it.
The Causes of Inhibition
Elevated hormone levels, in general, will cause inhibition of natural testosterone production. What then besides estrogen can cause inhibition? DHT, which does not aromatize, has been extensively shown to cause inhibition of testosterone production. Androgen alone, then, is sufficient to cause inhibition. In Jim’s case, androgen use was moderately heavy, and androgen alone would seem the cause of the inhibition.
Progesterone is another hormone that can cause inhibition, when used long-term. Paradoxically, in the short term it can be stimulatory. Other relevant factors include beta agonists, opiates, melatonin, prolactin, and probably other compounds. With the exception of beta agonists (e.g. ephedrine and Clenbuterol) and opiates (natural endorphins on the one hand being inhibitory, and Nubain blocking such inhibition) manipulation of these would not seem useful in bodybuilding.
The Hypothalamic/Pituitary/Testicular Axis (HPTA)
To understand inhibition of testosterone production, we need to know first how it is produced and how production is controlled. The broad general picture is that the hypothalamus receives a variety of inputs, for example, levels of various hormones, and decides whether or not more sex hormones should be produced. If the inputs are high, for example, high estrogen or high androgen or both, then it decides that little or no sex hormones should now be produced, but if all inputs are low, then it may decide that more sex hormones should be produced. It seems that the hypothalamus doesn’t respond only to current hormone levels, but also to the past history of hormone levels.
The hypothalamus itself cannot produce any sex hormones – instead it produces LHRH, or luteinizing hormone (LH) releasing hormone, also called GnRH (gonadotropin releasing hormone.) This then stimulates the pituitary gland.
The pituitary uses the amount of LHRH as one of its signals in deciding how much LH it should produce. Proper response depends on having sufficient receptors for LHRH. These receptors must be activated for LH to be produced. The pituitary also uses sex hormone levels, both current and the past history, in deciding how much LH to produce. Some aspects of the pituitary’s behavior are peculiar. For example, too much LHRH results in the pituitary downregulating LHRH receptors, with the result that very high LHRH production, which one would think should result in high testosterone production, actually lowers testosterone production. Another oddity is that while high estrogen levels inhibit the pituitary, still some estrogen is required to maintain a high number of LHRH receptors. So both very low and high levels of estrogen can inhibit LH production.
LH produced by the pituitary then stimulates the testicles to produce testosterone. Here, the amount of LH is the main factor, and high levels of sex hormones do not seem to cause inhibition at this level.
Inhibition From AAS Cycles
Because high androgen levels sustained around the clock will cause inhibition, traditional cycles simply cannot avoid inhibition of LH production while on cycle. There are three ways to avoid it:
· Avoid having high androgen levels around the clock. This can be done, for example, by using oral AAS only in the morning, with the last dose being approximately at noontime. Even 100 mg/day Dianabol can be used in this fashion with little inhibition. The problem with this approach is that gains are not very good compared to what is seen when high androgen levels are sustained around the clock.
· Use an amount and kind of AAS that is low enough to avoid much inhibition. Primobolan at 200-400 mg/week may achieve this effect. Again, gains will be compromised compared to a more substantial cycle. Testosterone esters and Deca are substantially inhibitory even at 100 mg/week so using a low dose of these drugs will simply result in both inhibition and poor gains.
· In principle, one could use an antiandrogen, but this would totally defeat the purpose of the cycle.
Oral AAS: These do not assist recovery of natural testosterone production, but if used only in the morning, can help sustain muscle mass while in the recovery phase, with little or no adverse effect on recovery.
- 08-21-2005, 10:31 PM
any amount of a steriod will be suppressive to some extent and will NOT help in the recovery.. I think this has been discussed on every board I have been on at one time or another.. and there is NO such thing as a good bridge with dbol
- 08-21-2005, 10:38 PM
I actually saw Dr.D say something "in favor" of the above post, Matt. Would be worth a search...
08-21-2005, 10:39 PM
Well to each his own and please feel free to do what you think is right.. I am just giving my opinion
08-21-2005, 10:42 PM
I was thinking Superdrol? Not too suppresive.
08-21-2005, 10:45 PM
I personally wouldn't give it a go...and it is still theory on both sides. I was just saying that even some of our brightest minds have brought this up before.Originally Posted by Matthew D
Just thought I'd add to the thread, that's all.
08-21-2005, 10:46 PM
I dont think there are many other oral AAS in primo's category as far as lack of supression...maybe something like a non-methyl AAS, i.e. max lmg, would be a good idea.Originally Posted by Goat
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