- 08-16-2005, 01:19 PM
Im on my 3rd PH cycle and i absolutely cant stand the long post cycle recovery, lack of libido, testicles on vacation, etc. I plan on using HCG at the end of my current finigenx, m1t (responsible for the ridiculous shutdown), and prostanozol cycle, but i am confused on certain aspects of HCG use.
I would be using HCG Pregnyl 1500IU per 1ml amp. One 1500IU injection every 5 days spread over 2 weeks. I will also be using tamoxifen during pct.
As for the matters i am unclear on.....injection sites, gauge and needle lengths, and mixing with solvents.
I have read that sub q or IM work but id prefer to go with whatever is easier (probably sub q). I am unclear as to what a "slin pin" is but im guessing its a 30g or higher with a 1/2 inch pin ( 1ml capacity)? Also, if someone could explain the solvent mixing procedure i would be extremely grateful, as i am not sure if instructions would be included and if they would be in english if they were. Last but not least, would 1 ml 30G syringe be able to hold the HCG along with the solvent?
Take it easy on me guys im new to the whole injection thing and want to make 100% sure i have every aspect covered. Help the newb.
- 08-16-2005, 01:26 PM
okay 'slin needles are insulin needles to start off with you can usually pick them up at a pharmacy if not, search the net for diabetic sites, they will ship them to you. Next comes the mixing procedure, i'm sure your hcg came with some solvent, break the amp, draw up as much solvent as you can and squirt it into the bottle with the hcg in it. DO NOT SQUIRT IT DIRECTLY on the HCG, squirt it slowly on the side of the bottle and let it run down and GENTLY mix with the hcg, if it does not dissolve put as much water as you can and gently swirl it and let it sit for awhile (5min or so), and as far as injecting read the insulin injection sticky, they have a link to a video on how to inject, and your question about a syringe holding the solvent and the hcg, after you mix the two draw all the mixed **** out and inject it because it doesn't matter how much solvent you put , because it's always gonna be 1500iu's of hcg in that water, just make sure to get it all, so if your insulin needle only holds 1cc, only dilute the powder with about 3/4 of a cc so the syringe will hold it all
- 08-16-2005, 01:34 PM
Freak can you read my other thread in this forum about Chorionic Gonadotropin (not human). Sorry to hijack but I couldn't pm you.
Originally Posted by FreakNasty22
08-16-2005, 01:52 PM
so as far as mixing with solvent goes just make sure everything is dissolved before drawing it up to inject? Will it take an entire solvent amp to dilute the hcg? and finally if i make a newb mistake and cant fit all the solution into one injection could i just shoot the remainder in a second sub q injection. I appreciate the responses
08-16-2005, 01:58 PM
- 6'1" 240 lbs.
- Join Date
- Dec 2003
- Richmond, VA
- Rep Power
just curious as to why not to squirt it directly on the HCG. does it degrade it or something? if so, how?Originally Posted by FreakNasty22
08-16-2005, 02:08 PM
I don't know if it degrades, but I know they say not to squirt it on hgh and igf-1 when reconstituting, why take the risk? Even though you might be able to squirt it on the hcg
08-16-2005, 02:10 PM
yes draw up as many times as needed since you're gonna be shooting every five days
08-16-2005, 02:14 PM
as far as taking an entire solvent amp to dilute the hcg, you'll have to judge for yourself when you see no more white powder it's dissolved
08-16-2005, 03:29 PM
shooting 1500 iu's of hcg at one time is not safe.
08-16-2005, 07:35 PM
"The usual protocol is to inject 1500-3000 I.U. every 4th or 5th day, for a duration usually no longer than 2 or 3 weeks."
"The optimal dosage for an athlete using HCG has never been established, but it is thought that a single shot of 1000 to 2000 IU per week will get the desired results. Cycles on the HCG should be kept down to three weeks at a time with an off cycle of at least a month in between."
If 1500iu's is not safe? what would everyone reccomend?
08-16-2005, 08:06 PM
The notion of doses of 1500IU or higher is an old one, based in part on the fact that women who take HCG for fertility treatment use higher doses. The modern idea is 250IU to 500IU, 2 or 3 times a week. Higher dosages, over time, can desensitize the Leydig cells in the testes to LH, which will cause lower testosterone levels in the long run. Search for the Swale Protocol on this or most other bodybuilding boards, and you'll get more information. Swale is an MD who specializes in HRT and treats a lot of AAS users. I personally use HCG at 250IU or 500IU (depending on the cycle) and feel that it is very adequate.Originally Posted by jomi822
In your first post, you mentioned using the HCG at the end of the cycle. If you run the HCG as outlined above for the entire cycle, you will not experience any shutdown. If you wait till the end of the cycle, you will shutdown at first and the HCG will restart it. Better to prevent the shutdown in the first place.
As for mixing, what I do is squirt 1 ml of BW in the amp, suck up the mixture, and inject the 1 ml into a sterile 10ml vial that I have already added 3 ml of BW to. Then, I have 4 ml with 2000IU in it. If I want 500IU, I inject 1 ml, if I want 250IU, I inject 1/2 ml. I prefer subq but it doesn't really matter. So if you mix with 1 ml, add it to 2 ml in a sterile vial. If you want 500IU per dose, use 1 ml, if you want 250IU, use 1/2 ml. You could also just keep all 3 ml in a syringe, inject a ml or 1/2 ml at a time, and change the needle every time you want to inject. Lots of people do it this way. BTW, I use 2000IU amps of HCG and the powder dissolves very well and very quickly in 1 ml of BW. HCG needs to be refrigerated once it is reconstituted.
The idea of letting the mixture run down the side is from the procedure for mixing HGH, which is more unstable than HCG. The first few times I mixed the HCG, I squirted directly on the powder, but now I let it run down the side. I have not seen any difference. Having said that, given the fact that HCG can be hard to come by, it is better safe than sorry.
08-16-2005, 09:38 PM
Well hell, dont say I didn't warn ya when you have to use HCG for the rest of your life. If steroidoloy.com told you to shoot it in your eyeball I suppose you would do that too? Do a search for SWALE'S HCG PROTOCOL and do some reading. You want to shoot <500iu each time to avoid desensitization of the leydig cells. HCG is a powerful hormone and is not something to be played with.
08-16-2005, 09:38 PM
08-17-2005, 10:46 AM
woa thanks for the dosage update. i can only imagine how f'ed up id be using the old school dosage. thanks for the info. can distilled water be used in place of bacteriostatic water?
08-17-2005, 11:03 AM
Yes but for some reason when I tried it, it stung like a mother****er. Seriously. Imagine the pain of being kicked in the balls, in liquid form, being injected into you. I tried it subq, and I could only get 1/4 of a ml in (and I have a high tolerance for pain). I figured maybe it had something to do with injecting water into fat. I threw that pin out (in my sharps container), grabbed a regular syringe, drew another ml, slapped a 25g pin on it, and injected into my delt. Same pain. Only got about 1/4 ml in again before I gave up. My delt literally twitched for about 10 minutes afterward.Originally Posted by jomi822
I read somewhere that the pain is due to the pH difference between pure water and blood. But some people use pure water with HGH with no problems, so maybe I am just sensitive to it for some reason. HCG is known to sting a little even when reconstituted with BW, so maybe the distilled water makes it worse.
Make sure you sterilize the distilled water thoroughly if you decide to give it a shot.
08-17-2005, 02:41 PM
500 eod for 2-3 weeks, prolly 2 would suffice for you. i would not recommend using anything other than bacteriostatic water, which comes with it. the powder dissolves quite easily and rapidly so don't worry about it. it may or may not sting, personally i never felt any pain whatsoever from them. you can shoot it wherever you want, sub that is. any drug store will sell the pins to you, just tell them your grandfather is a diabetic and sent you. always works for me.
08-17-2005, 02:57 PM
Given that its active life is nearly 3 days, if I was using 500IU I'd probably shoot it every 3 days.
08-18-2005, 12:26 PM
im just curious, how many times are planning to use it/? are you using it for last week of your cycle?
08-18-2005, 12:28 PM
Damit I just wish I could get some for my little raisens
08-18-2005, 07:50 PM
my plan is to do the first injection the last day of my cycle or the following day. Because m1t is so suppressive im using th 500iu dosage, to start out with at least. I dont want to densensitize my leydig cells so i am thinking about lowering the last 2 injs to 250iu.Originally Posted by acecombact1
day 1- 500iu
day 4- 500iu
day 7- 500iu
day 10- 250iu
day 13- 250iu
as for obtaining the pins from a pharmacy: are they going to ask me for ID, prescription #, "diabetic relative X"'s name, etc. i could order them, but i just want those damn pins.
08-18-2005, 08:19 PM
At this point, you may need 1000iu shots. 250-500 is fine if you stay on top of it from about midway, but if you wait till the end like you did, 1000-2000iu doses are still the best bet in my experience. Don't waste your time with the little doses after an M1T cycle. If you do 500's, EOD would be a good idea. A few big shots are not dangerous though unless you go for months like that.
08-18-2005, 08:48 PM
any pct advice from Dr. D is law in my book. Ill modify my hcg schedule so its starts out with 1000iu shots. Anyone have any more advice for getting pins from a pharmacy?
08-18-2005, 09:28 PM
Just ask for them, and don't be embarassed when they look at you like a junkie. If they ask what they are for tell them your parents are diabetic and bedridden sick at the moment...or tell them you have a diabetic cat.
08-19-2005, 03:15 AM
What do you suggest for one wanting to run it throughout the cycle?
08-19-2005, 04:46 AM
I've noticed that if I go in looking clean cut and fresh shaved with a tank or short sleeve on, they are very quick to help. Go in with a long sleeve shirt with your hair uncombed and you do get the look! You can ask for BD 28g allergy syringes and they'll hook you up without thinking twice usually.Originally Posted by Boss_K
08-19-2005, 04:54 AM
250iu 2x/wk from the start, or 500iu 2x/wk if you wait till the mid point. If you stay on top of it from the beginning, you can avoid suppression with the lower dose. If you wait a month, then you have to play catch up because you are already somewhat suppressed and will respond better to a higher dose.Originally Posted by GeneTikz
08-20-2005, 01:16 PM
So if one were taking say, test/deca, they wouldnt start running the hcg until about 4 weeks in?Originally Posted by DR.D
08-20-2005, 03:08 PM
That's pretty much what I do. It's a balacing act. You don't want to take too high of a dose even for short periods, but you don't want to take it too long either, even at low doses. So I take a medium dose for a medium time span to split the difference. Like 2.5 months max time at 500iu 2x/wk max dose. That is still a bit long on the time, but it keeps working for me.Originally Posted by GeneTikz
08-20-2005, 04:48 PM
- 5'10" 180 lbs.
- Join Date
- Mar 2004
- Beaumont, TX
- Rep Power
So 10 weeks is about the longest you'd recommend Dr. D?
08-20-2005, 05:42 PM
Yeah. It's the longest I've even gone. I'd actually recommend like 6-8 wks for beginners though.Originally Posted by jmh80
09-13-2005, 02:43 PM
they pharmacist was not very happy at my request. i played semi-dumb asking for a BD insulin injection needle for my grandfather up from florida who did not want to bring one on the plane and he looked me up and down and said id need a prescription. it all worked out though im stopping this cycle early this M1T is KILLING me i dont know if its the brand or what ive never felt this horrible on it before. thanks for the help once again thank god for hcg
09-13-2005, 02:44 PM
i was wearing khackis and a polo shirt by the way, im 6'2 235lbs that might have given my intentions away.
09-14-2005, 02:40 AM
If you run the HCG during cycle, is there no need to keep running it during pct?
everything i've seen either has it during cycle or pct, but not both.
09-14-2005, 03:34 PM
i didnt run it while on cycle, i am currently post cycle and used it for the first time yesterday, barely felt that slin pin.Originally Posted by the42nd
09-14-2005, 04:08 PM
- 5'10" 180 lbs.
- Join Date
- Sep 2003
- Flagstaff, AZ
- Rep Power
Originally Posted by DR.D
The good Doctor's advice matches my experience with HCG. I used 500 iU every 3 days on a M1T cycle and though it did make me feel a lot better than a normal M1T cycle it was barely enough to keep testicular atrophy at bay while on. It still was not enough to get libido back online after PCT. I ran it for about 4 weeks this way, 2 weeks while on and 2 during PCT...and I don't recommend that as I was just experimenting.
Desensitization of Leydig cells via HCG administration is more a long term, HRT concern.
09-12-2007, 06:06 AM
some good info here. jomi what brand m1t was that do you remember? How did it work out. I know.....way to bump an old ass thread, sorry.
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