Held onto gains through PCT, now losing them?

[KD1]

Maybe I didnt continue PCT long enough. I did 4 weeks of UH, w/2 weeks Nolva, tapered off the UH over the last 16 days ( 4-3-2-1 at 4 days each dose ).

Anyhow libido was great, gains were still there, now Im starting to lose weight, feel lethargic, and ( I know this sounds weird ) Im losing my body hair. I Nair my chest once a week and the hair is growing back much slower now.

Im wondering if my natural test isnt quite what it used to be, that upon cessation of the UH it has dropped below normal.

I want to see a doctor to get it checked but I dont know how to approach one with this delicate of a question. Or I could just tough it out for a few more weeks, its only been a week since PCT was over.

Advice?

[pestis]

[QUOTE=KD1]Maybe I didnt continue PCT long enough. I did 4 weeks of UH, w/2 weeks Nolva, tapered off the UH over the last 16 days ( 4-3-2-1 at 4 days each dose ).

Anyhow libido was great, gains were still there, now Im starting to lose weight, feel lethargic, and ( I know this sounds weird ) Im losing my body hair. I Nair my chest once a week and the hair is growing back much slower now.

Im wondering if my natural test isnt quite what it used to be, that upon cessation of the UH it has dropped below normal.

I want to see a doctor to get it checked but I dont know how to approach one with this delicate of a question. Or I could just tough it out for a few more weeks, its only been a week since PCT was over.

more info please. what was your cycle?
2 weeks of nolva is not enough. search nolvadex.
also, how is your diet post-cycle? keep your calories up.

[KD1]

I was half way into a 6-week cycle of Max LMG + Prost. when I aborted due to injuries - which have since healed.

Calories have kept up, in fact during PCT I added a middle of the night whey protein shake, which I credit somewhat for keeping my gains.

Training wise Ive been consistent PCT and post PCT with the exception of one day I had absolutely nothing so I bailed and gorged myself ( my bf is low - figured I needed a break ).

I kinda saw the Nolva as icing on the cake - only took 10mg a day, with UH being the primary PCT. Ive never had any gyno issues.

[milwood]

what's your training like in PCT and beyond?

[KD1]

what's your training like in PCT and beyond?

Fine, with the exception of that one day, strength is the same, but Im losing weight.

My routine is upper body split into 2 days - push/pull. Lower body the 3rd day, hit everything twice weekly, 1 day off, repeat.

Sounds like a lot but I do low sets with 4-6 reps, 45-60 min workouts, but hard - leave soaked in sweat. Its worked well for me for years, training "unassisted".

Im probably over-reacting, but the body hair thing is weirding me out. Usually I have course 1/8" hairs on my chest after 7 days, now its like only 30-40% of the hairs are above stubble level and the hairs that are 1/8" are finer.

[Malek256]

A basic question: did you up your calories after you increased your muscle mass?

[KD1]

No, with the exception of the mid-night protein shake.

Sounds like the reason for my weight loss...

Strange that I held onto it for PCT though.

[JonesersRX7]

Remember.. it's more than just numbers on a scale. How much weight are we talking? Have you noticed a loss of muscle size when you look in the mirror? Measurements down?

Don't go at it with such a subjective view. "I've lost 3 pounds! Holy chit man!"..... it's silly....

[Malek256]

No, with the exception of the mid-night protein shake.

Sounds like the reason for my weight loss...

Strange that I held onto it for PCT though.

Well, you used chems to artificially prop up your levels during PCT...

When you gain muscle, your daily cals need to go up to feed it. Your resting metabolic rate increases.

[KD1]

My peak on cycle was 187, was 185 thru PCT, now Im 182-183. But I look a lot flatter than on cycle especially, and have lost some visual size since PCT.

Im not sure where to add calories honestly, I could eat fattier foods I guess. My GI system is about at its max for healthy food intake - Im taking 2 huge ****s a day.

[JonesersRX7]

obligatory next question.....

What does your diet look like... macro break down?

[KD1]

obligatory next question.....

What does your diet look like... macro break down?

Approx 2800 calories,
50% Carbs,
30% Protein,
20% fat.

[H8duke]

Approx 2800 calories,
50% Carbs,
30% Protein,
20% fat.

there you go . NOT enough calories! ther in lies your problem.

[Terminator LMG]

there you go . NOT enough calories! ther in lies your problem.

Agreed. Try more like 3200-3500 kcals/day.

[shootmeagain]

Hang on a sec...

I see where this guy gives his weight, but not his height, nor his BF%/LBM... so how can you recommend an appropriate caloric intake level for him?

I do agree, if you lost weight after PCT, and that was not your goal (i.e. - dieting, doing a good amount of cardio, etc.) then the most likely culprit is insufficient calories and you've lost overall body comp, unfortunately probably mostly from muscle tissues.

Besides caloric concerns, you may also want to consider shifting the macros % more from carbs to protein next time.

Either way, what you have to keep in mind is that if you make new muscle gains, you have to feed 'em. Beginning with PCT, one might use more protein than usual and also glutamine and BCAAs. Calories are not necessarily bumped up, but they are certainly kept at maint level or greater during PCT and for a couple of weeks thereafter, at least.

[KD1]

Ive been trying to shift towards more protein lately, will do a diet re-eval soon, perhaps this weekend. BCAA's and glutamine sound like a good idea for further supplementation. Anyone sell a combo formula of the 2? Something I could drop a scoop of into my protein shakes?

BTW, Im 6'1", ~8% BF ( via calipers ).

[ss01]

I kinda wonder what you did with your training volume between on-cycle and pct and beyond? OK I'm going on a limb here :

I think a lot of guys change their routines for a cycle - more volume, tons of intensity. This is all good. BUT I strongly believe that during PCT - or maybe, now that we have these new, super-potent PCT products, AFTER PCT, eventually the volume has to come down. Way down for some, not that much for some others, but mostly I believe your body isn't able to suddenly reconstruct your newly-acquired muscles if you tear them down with too much volume, with just normal testosterone levels. Maybe with time, your myonuclear number will increase and you'll be able to up the volume some more...

Hey, how about some GH-releasers? I do real well on GABA, maybe GABA, Arginine and Ornithine, this is inexpensive and might give you some suprising results.

[David Dunn]

My peak on cycle was 187, was 185 thru PCT, now Im 182-183. But I look a lot flatter than on cycle especially, and have lost some visual size since PCT.

Im not sure where to add calories honestly, I could eat fattier foods I guess. My GI system is about at its max for healthy food intake - Im taking 2 huge ****s a day.

Couple things to keep in mind. Androgens often increase glycogen uptake and retention. Though theoretically this could be measured as LBM it can often be transient, and once the the androgen is removed the retention properties go with it. So to go from 187 to 183 is not a whole lot of loss when you condsider glycogen retention is reduced.

One trick that I use is the last two or three days of my cycle before I begin PCT I load up on creatine. During PCT I continue to keep the creatine intake high and also supplement with a slight increase of ALA. Creatine and ALA are complimentary in glycogen uptake and retention in muscle tissue. I usually run this protocol for the entire PCT and then taper down the two about a week or so AFTER the END of my PCT.

Another thing I find helpful in keeping my weight on is Extra Virgin Olive Oil. I keep my surplus high by adding this instead of carbs. Again, because glycogen retention is a bit diminished, I chose to get my surplus from the EFA'a, which also support a health lipid and hormone restoration. I cannot utilize as much carbs when not on androgens (this is just me) so it is a more effective choice for me.

JMO...

[diamonddave]

Another thing I find helpful in keeping my weight on is Extra Virgin Olive Oil. I keep my surplus high by adding this instead of crabs.
JMO...

Thanks for this tip. I've been trying, unsuccessfully, to use crabs for my last couple of cycles.

Sorry, I know what you meant. I just had to give the newest mod some crab............. I mean CRAP.

Congrats!
dd

[David Dunn]

Thanks for this tip. I've been trying, unsuccessfully, to use crabs for my last couple of cycles.

Sorry, I know what you meant. I just had to give the newest mod some crab............. I mean CRAP.

Congrats!
dd

Meekness = power under restraint.

Thanks dd.

"A little Zen headed your way, you'll get it halfway down the interstate. Four days from now it all goes clear, a Buddhist riff for your inner ear" ~DLR