chemistry question

CrimsonOsiris

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if i have a sample of research material that is labelled as "wetted ~35%", does that mean that 35% of the weight is water?

for example, if i take a 100 gram sample of material, will only 65 grams of that sample be the active ingredient?

if i have not posted enough information to answer this, let me know and i will try to divulge more...

thanks in advance
 

Paracelsus

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I have never seen the term "wetted" to describe a chemical. Is it a monohydrate, dihydrate, etc? If you could tell us the name of the chemical, more information might be available.

Maybe just get some magnesium sulfate to dry it out.
 

CrimsonOsiris

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The material's chemical structure is:
C6H4N2O5

and its cas# is 51-28-5

its not listed as a hydrate, but another term they use is "moisted", and it is moisted for shipping purposes...
 

Poobah

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Hmmmmm... I'm not a chemist, but I'd lean in the direction that 35% of your products weight is water...

I'd definately get a second opinion though.
 

Paracelsus

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Why not just say its DNP? Dnp is very slighty water soluble (0.2787 g/100 mL). It is very good that you are taking care to know precisely the dosage used (This is why you are concerned about the water, correct?). Build a cheap dessicator, place a known mass of the wet compound inside, and take a new weight once the mass is stable. Then you can determine the precise percentage of water in the wet material.

Para
 

CrimsonOsiris

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paracelsus, i havent come out and said cough*dnp*cough because there seems to be this idea that it is a no-no to discuss on these boards. i am just trying to not get myself banned honestly.

but since the cat is out of the bag, that dessication process you are talking about is a good idea. i will have to research how to go about that. i have a limited background in chemistry and related areas, so some of this stuff is a bit new to me. i also wonder about the initial size. if i acquire 100 grams of DNP, and the true weight is more than that, than perhaps that will tell me the percent water as it is. i would assume that a reputable company would not advertise 100 g of DNP and mean that only 65% of the weight was actual DNP, but then again my dealings in this area are minimal.

also, concerning dessicating, i would imagine that it would be safer to actually keep most of the sample in its original wetted state for safety concerns. but i wonder if this would affect the research process (in a method other than possibly having to adjust the sample size). and lastly, would soluting individual sample sizes for the research process affect the outcomes?

if anyone can help me out a little here, id appreciate it.

thanks
 

noctorum

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Never leave DNP wetted. Always dry it completely using cornstarch. Check out the stickies at Meso, there is a detailed guide there for home-making it.
 

CrimsonOsiris

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Never leave DNP wetted. Always dry it completely using cornstarch. Check out the stickies at Meso, there is a detailed guide there for home-making it.
are you talking about mesomorphosis.com?
i was over there, and read lots on the How not to **** up DNP thread, but couldnt find anything about homebrew type issues...

could you provide a link perhaps?

thanks
 

noctorum

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Erm, had the site wrong, sorry about that. It was BB4U

Obtaining DNP and Making Capsules
If, given these considerations, you still are ready to take the plunge and use DNP, you will need to learn how to obtain and/or make your own capsules. DNP is shipped industrially in large metal tins holding a glass jar containing the wet DNP, which is wetted with enough water to total 15-35% of total mass to prevent explosion while in transit. Ample cushioning material around the glass jar is included to further prevent ignition of DNP (it is highly flammable) and the obvious possibility of breaking the jar. Chemical sellers will not sell this chemical to individuals or any other entity without an account. However, if you are resourceful enough to get some, the following are instructions on how to properly prepare capsules.

A) Extreme caution is necessary when making the caps. DNP is bright yellow and will even go through gloves. This stain will not go away for up to 2 weeks. If it does get on your hands or other parts of yoru house, you can usually get it off with 2(3H) Furanone dinitro (butyrolactone). It usually will come out of clothes with laundering.

B) Care is of the utmost importance when measuring out the amount one would need. Dan recommends 5 to 8 mg/kg bodyweight in Dirty Dieting #0, assuming that the person is under 15% BF. He subsequently told me that he was really suffering on 6-8 mg/kg, and that is excessive in his opinion. Note that the calculation is bodyweight, not lean body mass. With the exception of obese persons, this method is sufficiently accurate.

C) Obtain a reliable scale, a Cap M. Quik device, and some size "O" caps ($60-$200 minimum, approximately $10, and $2 respectively). Corn starch, available at the grocery, is also needed. Since DNP ships at about either 15% or 35% water by weight, it is necessary to dry out the material overnight before attempting to deal with it. No matter how dry it looks, this step is absolutely necessary for accurate dosing.

D)The next day, mix 15 grams DNP with 10 grams corn starch, and pound it into a fine powder. Spread resulting mixture into the Cap M. Quik, finish the capping process, and you have 50 caps of 300mg potency. Repeat as above with 10 g DNP and 15 g corn starch in order to make 50 caps of 200mg each, or with 12.5g DNP and 12.5g corn starch to make the same number of 250mg caps.

Bear in mind that the preparation process, in the absence of a laboratory equipped with a chemical hood, will destroy the immediate area. It gets in the air, and fine particles will stain everything. Wear clothes that are dispensable, at least 2 pairs of gloves, and a fume mask. Preferably, do this outside on an extremely calm day, or alternatively, place protective covering everything in sight if it is necessary to perform the encapsulation indoors.
http://bodybuildingforyou.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22591&page=2&pp=20&highlight=dnp*+corn
 
DR.D

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Never leave DNP wetted. Always dry it completely using cornstarch. Check out the stickies at Meso, there is a detailed guide there for home-making it.
I would only dry the portion being used. It's a shock explosive hazard dry, that's why it is shipped and stored wet.
 
jmh80

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Klaus - what is Raney nickel? I take it a cheaper form of hydrogenation catalyst than Palladium (that I've heard is about $240 an oz.)

(I have a commerical hydrogenator RX that has palladium that we sent off-site to be regenerated. I made sure to have it weighted before it left to make sure the company didn't steal any. I made them ship back the fines generated during the process also.)
 

Paracelsus

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Well, from the quote above it looks like the "wetted" percentage is by mass, so that solves that problem. To make the desiccator, you will need a container of some sort with a tight fitting lid, silicon oil (petro oil i.e. vaseline should be fine though), the drying agent (magnesium sulfate, calcium sulfate, phosphorous pentoxide, etc I do not know anything about the use of cornstarch.), a small wide-mouth vial, and the DNP. For the lid/jar contact smooth surfaces would be best but the screw-on type might work.

Place the drying agent in the bottom of the container. Place the DNP in the vial, leaving the top of the vial open. Place the vial in the container. Coat the contacts between the jar and lid in the oil, and put on the lid. I have never dried DNP, so I cannot say how long the process will take. The larger the surface area exposed to the air in the desiccator, the faster it will dry. When the DNP is dry, simply remove the vial, cap etc, and refill the desiccator.
 
DR.D

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Funny experience:
Raney nickel catalyst is shipped as a suspension in water just as DNP is. I was preparing some for use in catalytic hydrogenation and attempted to remove the water in a rather unorthodox manner. Unfortunately, once the milligram quantity of catalyst was dry, it erupted into a spectacular show of flames, engulfing about 1/4 of the hood I was working in (Raney nickel is highly air sensitive). I'm very lucky none of organic sovent jugs were open. Lesson learned: if a chemical is stored as a suspension in water, its probably best to keep it that way until used; when finally using it, be cautious.
Don't feel bad, we have all seen the pretty fire and developed a healthy respect for NiH when it's not stored under Nitrogen! At least you were in the hood!!
 
DR.D

DR.D

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Well, from the quote above it looks like the "wetted" percentage is by mass, so that solves that problem. To make the desiccator, you will need a container of some sort with a tight fitting lid, silicon oil (petro oil i.e. vaseline should be fine though), the drying agent (magnesium sulfate, calcium sulfate, phosphorous pentoxide, etc I do not know anything about the use of cornstarch.), a small wide-mouth vial, and the DNP. For the lid/jar contact smooth surfaces would be best but the screw-on type might work.

Place the drying agent in the bottom of the container. Place the DNP in the vial, leaving the top of the vial open. Place the vial in the container. Coat the contacts between the jar and lid in the oil, and put on the lid. I have never dried DNP, so I cannot say how long the process will take. The larger the surface area exposed to the air in the desiccator, the faster it will dry. When the DNP is dry, simply remove the vial, cap etc, and refill the desiccator.
I dried a portion with minimum heat under ambient pressure before. If using a desiccant, the P2O5 would be the best in this case I think, it's 35% w/w wetted! Silica gel would take forever.
 

CrimsonOsiris

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thanks for all the information everyone, much appreciated.

if anyone has anything else to add that might be relevant or useful information about the process of dnp capping and such, feel free to leave it

thanks again
 

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