1 Year post cycle problems...

yessir66

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Hello everyone..i will try to make this as short as possible, but there is alot that needs to be said. about a year ago, July/august '04, i took a short 2-3 week cycle of Max-One-Test (not M1T) made by max muscle, i believe it was just a regular version of 1-test. not methylated of course. and during that time i had complete shutdown and testicular atrophy. As for PCT i took 6 -oxo, which at the time i thought was the correct think to do, (didnt really know too much about Nolva or other SERMS, or HCG) but to no avail my boys never came back and neither did libido, erectile health etc...so after taking the oxo and tribulus with no help, i thought i did everything i could and i just left it alone hoping it would all come back sometime, well after almost a year i finally realized its not going to come back by itself, i started doing research and realized what happened to me and what i need to do to correct it. so after a year of feeling like ****, i got a blood test done 2 days ago on 8/2/05...and to no surprise the results are not where they should be for a healthy male of my age. the results are as follows...

Total Testosterone: 567 ng/dl
Free Testosterone: 107 pg/ml
Estradiol: 36 pg/ml
Luteinizing Hormone: 2.6
SHBG: 28 nm/L

My total test is in the mid-normal/Low range, so i believe that means the testes are working again slightly, (finally) but my free test is low, my estradiol is high, and my LH seems to be really low, and my SHBG is higher than it should be..so after i have finally gotten the numbers, now i need to plan a course of action. My first thought is to immediately buy some Nolva and use it at 40 mg/ ED to minimize the effects of my bodys excess estrogen, and until i figure out everything i want to do. my testicles are still smaller than they were a year ago before i started the cycle, so i was thinking of doing a short 2 week cycle of HCG.. maybe about 7500 IU's total spread out through 5 shots, 1 shot every 3 days, while continuing to use the Nolva. i was also thinking about stacking some Arimidex w/ it for the first 2 weeks, probably 0.5 mg's ED, because as far as i know, the nolvadex will bind to the receptor sites and cause the estrogen in the body to be unavailable, but that doesnt take out the excess ammount of estradiol in the body, so once the Nolva is discontinued, the level of estradiol will still be in the body. (if this is wrong please correct me) so i was thinking of a plan that follows:

Weeks 1-2: 40 mg Nolva ED
Weeks 1-2: .5 mg Arimidex ED
Weeks 1-2: between 7-9000 IU's of HCG total, spread out with 5 shots.
Weeks 2-4: 20 mg Nolva ED
Week 5: 10 mg Nolva ED (optional)

How does this plan of attack sound? would the HCG be necessary at the stage i am in? or would just taking the Nolva+Arimi work by itself? or for that matter would just taking Nolva the next 5 weeks or so correct everything in itself? I have heard some people using Thermolifes Tribosten (3 boxes, 6 pills a day for 30 days) and having good results w/ that, i could do that along w/ the Nolva..then again i not sure if that would be effective. So i kind of just wanted to make this post and let everyone know my problem and hopefully get some insight as to how to solve it, because there are so many knowledgeable people on this board, i figured i might get a few different opinions from everyone. this has really been a tough problem for me over the last year, my life has been so screwed up over the last year due to this imbalance, and i was such a fool to leave it alone and not do the proper research on how to fix it until now. Forgive me for the long post, but i figured i would get all of the information out there so you guys would have enough to work with. all comments and constructive criticism welcome.. as far as the whole plan goes, do you reccoment i buy nolva today immediately and start dosing it until i can get my hands on whatever else you guys reccomend?

thank you guys so much in advance.
 
Pax

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A Friend I know also had a problem with testicular atrophy after an 8 week cycle of Test Cyp and M1T. this friend used Nolva for 6 weeks but could not get his testicles to return to their normal size. He used Fenugreek and literally, within one week, his "boys" were back to normal again and he now has full function months later. In fact, before he ran his original cycle, he had low-normal total test. After the cycle and after using fenugreek, his total test is now in the 800 range completely chemical free.
 

yessir66

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thanks for the reply pax, my main concern right now isn't testicle size, but how to bring the level of estradiol back down to normal, which will indirectly boost my free test and balance my test to E ratio. i was thinking of something like this:

Weeks 1-2 .5 mg Arimidex ED followed by 40 mg of Nolva
Weeks 2-4 20 mg ED of Nolva

would this be the type of protocol to lower excess estradiol to normal?

thanks in advance.
 

cobra1414

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Bloodwork is somewhat meaningless if you don't have a baseline to compare with.

Your test levels look totally normal... you're right in the middle of the standard range anyway.
 

4shroom

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Holy crap!!!

Dude I have the same story to tell. I used M1T a year ago also and I'm having same issues as well. This has been the worst year of my life man. I'll never get back on that stuff again. I have been trying to find out what to do and not sure how to do it.
 

MarcusG

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Your free test isn't that low. In fact all the numbers seem to be quite normal.

If you got hcg, lay off the nolva. Spread out the hcg in small doses (perhaps 500iu's) and use the arimidex to control excessive conversion to estrogen (eod instead of ed).
And then rest a month when everythings over before another blood test.
 

eRICH

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You could also try an ATD product. Also I 2nd the fenugreek. I've had great success with it during PCT
 
lifted

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how old are you bud? If older, than that may explain....but honestly, your TT and FT look totally fine, no matter what age you are....and ESPECIALLY if you're 28+...wouldn't worry too much...but the libido/erection health would defintaley need some more attention...I would do what these guys suggested and use some herbal libido boosters...most of the time (in my experience anyways) my erection strength (lol) and libido in general take the longest to kick back in to what it was previously. It's taken as long as 7-8 months at times if I was on a really heavy/suppressive cycle...and I'm 24, so I would try the supps and then wait a tad bit longer to see and better gauge how you're endocrine system in general is respnding and recovering...if still no good, then do like what already was suggested, go see and endo and maybe he can work with you to help you out some more.
 

-2z-

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I second the positive fenugreek opinions. I was completely skeptical at first, but that stuff works wonders for me. I usually do a 4 week run during pct at 3caps/4caps/5caps/6caps....then off.
 
JonesersRX7

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YesSir... Was wondering whatever happened here and if you had a follow up test.
 

yessir66

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well i have not gotten a follow up blood test since, but i took some nolva and a little bit of arimidex for about 3 or so weeks, and then stopped. my erection health is back to normal, and i can't say that my desire is back to where it was, but it is alot better than it was. and it is also hard to get really aroused, but the erections are there so i'm not worried about anything for now. i'm going to run some trib for about a month and see how it helps. about a week ago i had a huge lump under my right nipple and it was sore for days, which really sounds like gyno, but there was discoloration under the nipple also, and im not sure if that is a part of gyno. and the other reason i didnt think it was gyno is because i am not on any gear or any type of supplementation at all besides vitamins and such..anyone have any ideas what this might of been? i actually went to the doc. about a day after the lump went away, and he said it was prob just some type of cyst or something, so i have no idea if it was gyno or not.
 
Grassroots082

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I still recommend Clomid but if you are happy where you are then so be it :) I had a problem with sex drive for the first time in my life my previous PCT and it scared me (Ergomax/Max LMG/light 4AD dose) which included Nolva 40/20 and then 3 weeks of Ultra HOT (ATD), Fenugreek, ZMA and other herbs like Maca. Got some Clomid and within like 4-5 days I felt much better, maybe I respond well to Clomid and then again maybe it was just coincidence and I came completely around without Clomid but I will be using it for my PCT's to come.
 

TryinToGetBIG

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I still recommend Clomid but if you are happy where you are then so be it :) I had a problem with sex drive for the first time in my life my previous PCT and it scared me (Ergomax/Max LMG/light 4AD dose) which included Nolva 40/20 and then 3 weeks of Ultra HOT (ATD), Fenugreek, ZMA and other herbs like Maca. Got some Clomid and within like 4-5 days I felt much better, maybe I respond well to Clomid and then again maybe it was just coincidence and I came completely around without Clomid but I will be using it for my PCT's to come.
What were your dosages?
 

s.norman

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well i have not gotten a follow up blood test since, but i took some nolva and a little bit of arimidex for about 3 or so weeks, and then stopped. my erection health is back to normal, and i can't say that my desire is back to where it was, but it is alot better than it was. and it is also hard to get really aroused, but the erections are there so i'm not worried about anything for now. i'm going to run some trib for about a month and see how it helps. about a week ago i had a huge lump under my right nipple and it was sore for days, which really sounds like gyno, but there was discoloration under the nipple also, and im not sure if that is a part of gyno. and the other reason i didnt think it was gyno is because i am not on any gear or any type of supplementation at all besides vitamins and such..anyone have any ideas what this might of been? i actually went to the doc. about a day after the lump went away, and he said it was prob just some type of cyst or something, so i have no idea if it was gyno or not.
sorry to hear about what happened to ya bro. from now on, i would use nolva 50mg for 2 weeks and 25mg for 2 weeks; fenugreek 3-4g for 30 days and optional lr3 igf-1 40ug/day 3-4 weeks. and total test in 560's isn't bad-ref. range is 240-827ng/dl
 

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