4AD use as test replacement for women

[Indigo6]

I know I've read a couple of articles where some women have used 4AD for test replacement therapy. However, they rarely tell you the dosage. So let's see, if I use 10 mg/day and the conversion rate is ~ 15%, then that sould translate into roughly 1.5mg of test per day.
Does anyone out there have any guidelines are practical experience with women using 4AD in very low dosages? I did find this article recently:

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/ullis/contrarian-endocrinology-01.htm

 

[SJA]

Great article. That doctor has his sh*t together. Notice he doesn't like Premarin and uses bio-identical hormones instead. He also is the very first doctor that I've come across that realizes the value of 4AD and test for women. Thanks for posting this.

You can revisit our conversations
here

and here

where we discussed dosages already..... a little. Currently, my G/F is using 20mg 4AD TD and that seems to be the lowest that she can go and still get the effects that she is looking for. A friend of mine has his Wife trying it and she can still get effects at 10mg TD. But in each case, there is also a small amount of test involved. My G/F was prescribed methyltest and my friend's Wife is doing 10mg of 1-T TD along with the 4AD.

When I say that "she can still get the effects", I'm referring to libido. She isn't one for subtleties. So I'm sure that a lower dose would give a nice subtle effect....but she wants to really feel the effect.

 

[Indigo6]

Cycling?

here

and here

we discussed this a little. Currently, my G/F is using 20mg 4AD TD and that seems to be the lowest that she can go and still get the effects that she is looking for. A friend of mine has his Wife trying it and she can still get effects at 10mg TD. But in each case, there is also a small amount of test involved. My G/F was prescribed methyltest and my friend's Wife is doing 10mg of 1-T TD along with the 4AD.

Is your girlfriend cycling it or using it everyday like replacement therapy?
Thanks for the reply.

 

[foo.c]

I know I've read a couple of articles where some women have used 4AD for test replacement therapy. However, they rarely tell you the dosage. So let's see, if I use 10 mg/day and the conversion rate is ~ 15%, then that sould translate into roughly 1.5mg of test per day.
Does anyone out there have any guidelines are practical experience with women using 4AD in very low dosages? I did find this article recently:

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/ullis/contrarian-endocrinology-01.htm

That was a really good article, I think I'll send it to my wife.

Thanks.

 

[SJA]

Is your girlfriend cycling it or using it everyday like replacement therapy?
Thanks for the reply.

She was cycling it at higher doses. But now we're trying to figure out what a good long term dosing protocol would be. She's been on 20mg (TD) for 6 weeks now. Periods seem to be on target and libido is staying up (just not as insane as it was with higher dosing).

 

[bioman]

Good info. I've been trying to figure out a dosing schedule for my wife as well. Be cautious of overdoing the 4AD as it caused my wife a bit of bloating. I'm going to run a hormone panel or two on her before trying anything else. Low progesterone can also mimic symptoms of low test in women so I want to make sure I'm "juicing" her correctly. lol

 

[Indigo6]

She was cycling it at higher doses. But now we're trying to figure out what a good long term dosing protocol would be. She's been on 20mg (TD) for 6 weeks now. Periods seem to be on target and libido is staying up (just not as insane as it was with higher dosing).

I'm kinda in the same situation, but am in menopause so the periods are done. I'm trying to figure out a long term dosage. I was using higher dosages for the anabolic effects, but have been ramping it down to find a good long term low dosage. The 10mg/day may be a little low. There is a bit of lag time so it takes a couple of weeks to see what's what. It would be ideal if I could run a low dosage for several months and ramp it up occasionally for the anabolic benefits. But there is no info on this so I'm having to take it slow and see what works.

 

[Indigo6]

Good info. I've been trying to figure out a dosing schedule for my wife as well. Be cautious of overdoing the 4AD as it caused my wife a bit of bloating. I'm going to run a hormone panel or two on her before trying anything else. Low progesterone can also mimic symptoms of low test in women so I want to make sure I'm "juicing" her correctly. lol

I don't seem to have the bloating problem, or at least I don't think I do.

 

[SJA]

I'm kinda in the same situation, but am in menopause so the periods are done. I'm trying to figure out a long term dosage. I was using higher dosages for the anabolic effects, but have been ramping it down to find a good long term low dosage. The 10mg/day may be a little low. There is a bit of lag time so it takes a couple of weeks to see what's what. It would be ideal if I could run a low dosage for several months and ramp it up occasionally for the anabolic benefits. But there is no info on this so I'm having to take it slow and see what works.

Exactly my thoughts on this. It's good to see that the ideas are paralleling in this arena. That is a good sign :thumbsup:

 

[bioman]

I don't seem to have the bloating problem, or at least I don't think I do.

I've nicknamed my wife the "Queen of Carbs" so that may have something to do with it. lol

 

[Indigo6]

4AD bloating

I've nicknamed my wife the "Queen of Carbs" so that may have something to do with it. lol

I've seen a lot of references to the 4AD bloat, but I've never been able to track down real definitive info. How bad is it? Is it all over or just the abdominal region? When I was on a much higher dose of 4AD I stayed pretty lean, so I don't think it affects me that way. I did experience some shedding however, but that stopped when I reduced the dosage.

 

[SJA]

Water retention would be all over.....bloat would be abdominal. I get both. My G/F stays pretty lean, but she must hold some water because when she goes off, she drops a few pounds.

 

[bioman]

At light doses you'd probably never notice it. I think we slipped up one day and put too much on..hard to measure a tenth of a squirt..we were using my leftover trans mix and I was trying to use a fraction of dose.

At the high doses male BBers use it definitely causes both bloat and water retention in a big big way...especially the injectibles.

 

[Indigo6]

At light doses you'd probably never notice it. I think we slipped up one day and put too much on..hard to measure a tenth of a squirt..we were using my leftover trans mix and I was trying to use a fraction of dose.

At the high doses male BBers use it definitely causes both bloat and water retention in a big big way...especially the injectibles.

I use a trans mix and an oral syringe. Much more precise. The squirt bottles plug up.

 

[SJA]

At light doses you'd probably never notice it. I think we slipped up one day and put too much on..hard to measure a tenth of a squirt..we were using my leftover trans mix and I was trying to use a fraction of dose.

At the high doses male BBers use it definitely causes both bloat and water retention in a big big way...especially the injectibles.

Just dillute the mix and use an oral dispenser. I would mix it at 20mg/ML so that you can go down to 10mg if necessary. It's mind boggling how little it really takes to effect women.

 

[bioman]

Good ideas, thanks guys.

I'll probably get her hormone profiles checked out by a reputable HRT clinic in Phoenix that specializes in fine tuning women soon. We're planning on having kids in the next year or two so I want to make sure she's A-OK...and I also selfishly want her libido to get back to normal..it's been hammered by IBS for the last 6 months.

 

[wastedwhiteboy2]

good luck bioman. I was thinking of having my wife run her profiles also. do you know what the levels should be or a site that explains it?

 

[bioman]

There's abook by a Dr Lee, I believe, it's called "What your Dr won't tell you about HRT". Some portions of it are on the Mercola.com site (yeah, yeah I know, iffy) but I like his thoughts on the matter. It's clear he's one of the more informed hormone Docs out there and takes a very thorough approach that pays attention to the nuances of female hormones(rather than just jamming Premarin down their throats). Even thoough his book mostly deals with post-menopausal women, he'd likely be a good source for basic support. He has a clinic in Phoenix so I might just take her there.

I don't know the levels for women very well and I think its important not to mess up their menstral cycles..particularly since we want to concieve soon.

Another libido boosting option seems to be progesterone cream, but there again, you kind of need to monitor that Estradiol: Progesterone ratio and it's expensive to do. Prog cream is really cheap though.