AAS before reaching genetic limit
- 07-21-2005, 10:18 PM
AAS before reaching genetic limit
I know people discourage others from taking AAS until they're at their genetic limit. I'm 32 and have not reached my limit yet and am considering aas for the following reason. Tell me if it is flawed.
When I bulked naturally, I gained weight fast but at a 1:1 ratio of lbm/fat. When I cut I lose at a 1:2 or 1:3 ratio. This makes for a slow see-saw journey.
So I pose this question. If you have your diet & training down but have just 1 yr experience and are over 25, why not do mild AAS cycles to limit fat gains while gaining mass? 4 weeks of 10mg superdrol, then PCT, then go natural, then 6 weeks of 120mg andriol -- seems like a safe way to to gain lbm with little fat. Since you're well below your genetic limit, you don't need the typical bb doses and your gains should be easily kept. Sides should be minimal.
- 07-21-2005, 10:52 PM
Genetic limit is a funny idea since I do not believe anyone can actually determine the true point where a genetic limit has been reached.
I see nothing wrong with your decision to use AAS. However, some of your gaining and losing is correlated to your diet/nutrition more than anything else.
If you choose to go the AAS route, then I suggest you opt for an injectabble testosterone over andriol. Andriol is not very effective for bodybuilding purposes due to some of the issues with the drug.(Note: 120mg daily would be considered a very low dosage.)
07-21-2005, 10:53 PM
07-22-2005, 01:03 AM
It seems that with the proper fluctuations of diet and exercise, one could continue to gain nearly all his life. Makes sense anyway. Eventually I guess no amount of high intensity or specific diet will make a difference in hormones.
07-22-2005, 03:18 AM
I know 120mg is low for experienced BBers but what about someone with 1 yr lifting experience?Originally Posted by size
I have modest goals: in 5 months, increase LBM by 15 lbs while total fat ends up where it is now. The ideal AAS for me isn't one that packs on tons of muscle and water, but one that lets me put on some quality mass with almost no fat. With such modest goals I don't think I need to resort to pins. What do you think?
I chose superdrol and andriol because of availability, oral convienence, and relative safety, and because I figured they were good enough for my goals. But if test IM is truly the best choice then I would consider it (first have to find it).
07-22-2005, 04:04 AM
andriol is really a waste of money. the bioavailability is pretty damn low and you would have to take it in such doses that make it very costly. putting on 15lbs in 5 months is pretty doable naturally. if you want to use gear than i would suggest pinning. "resorting to pins" is kind of a strange way to put it. pinning really is the best way to go about htings if you want to run a cycle.Originally Posted by uberlifter007
what type of sides are you looking to avoid? the amount of weight you put on really depends on diet, and if you don't want to retain alot of water you can always run some adex. a cycle of test e or cyp at 500mg/week for 10 weeks would most likely get you what you want. you can use superdrol to start the cycle if you wanted, or run another "dry" oral like var to kick start the cycle.
if you can find andriol you can find test.
don't be afraid of pins, i was terrified the firs time i pinned and then realized it wasn't a big deal at all once it was over. now i look forward to the days i get to pin
07-22-2005, 09:32 AM
07-22-2005, 09:55 AM
I'm not much into the whole "reaching your genetic limit" mind set.
However, I do believe you should have the following traits...
Know what is to bust your ass in the gym for at least a year... Using a quality training program that hits all parts of your body, not just your arms and chest. If your not busting your ass before AAS, you won't be during aas, and you sure as hell won't be post aas either.
Know at least a fair amount about dieting.. and put that knowledge to use as best you can day in and day out right along with that training. If you been training for a year and haven't put on 20 pounds of quality mass, your not going to help yourself any starting a cycle.. cause you obviously need to learn more about nutrition.
Have, the ability and the will to continually research diet, training, and aas, aswell as all the precautionary supplements and methods that go along with it... there is absolutely a huge amount of information that you should have a good grasp of before you start.. and alot of people that start, are starting without anywhere near as much knowledge as they should have.
Some would argue that I shouldn't use AAS.. but you know what, I had a fair amount of muscle mass, before I started (I actually look like one of the stronger guys in my gym on any given day.. granted I'm weak in some area's, curse my biceps... lol).. I can plan out and execute a cycle with the best of them, and I stick to training like it was my sworn duty.. and I can eat chicken breast, tuna, and bagels for the rest of my life.. (barring the occasional cheat). The average person I am not. On tuesday, a fella at the gym, came right out and asked me... are you here every day? I said no just 6 days a week.. His eye's went wide, and he said Wow.. I bust my ass more then 95% of the guys in my gym, and if your going to do aas, I think it's important you bust your ass too.
My dedication to diet, training and research.. give me the right to do aas, and I like to think do it successfully. Not to mention the fact I have a job, health insurance, and the ability to buy all the nessecary on and post cycle support supplements.
Andriol sucks ass.. If your afraid of pinning.. why not go with a test base transdermal... very effective alternative.
Here's another reason why I think I have earned the right....
Feb 16 2004 - 410+ pounds - Before
July 16 2005 - 275 pounds - After
07-22-2005, 10:03 AM
wow these pics make me voting you as the next member of the month. Outstanding weight loss and physique transformation, bro!Originally Posted by Poobah
07-22-2005, 11:20 AM
As far as starting too early, Arnold was 16 when he started juicing. Didn't hurt his muscular development at all.
07-22-2005, 12:40 PM
That man is an exception to the rule. Most others at that age would have issues...Originally Posted by SwingGuru
07-22-2005, 12:43 PM
I totally agree with being mentally ready for anabolics, but from a physical standpoint once a solid foundation exists, and the athlete has gained a significant amount of lean mass, age is the less important variable in the 'are you ready to juice' equation.Originally Posted by JonesersRX7
07-22-2005, 12:54 PM
07-22-2005, 12:54 PM
Originally Posted by SwingGuru
Let me get your stance on this. Theory:
Junior High student at 14years of age works out and eats houses for 2 years puts on a good solid foundation to make the HS football team. Now at 16 you recommend he can do a cycle because he has a "significant amound of lean mass"?
My opinion... amount of muscle does not equal appropriate time to venture to AAS, age is.
07-22-2005, 12:55 PM
Yes, trying to reinstall Server 2003 and going back and forth.... thanks.Originally Posted by lvtrojan
07-22-2005, 01:07 PM
My take on the age issue is simple.. if your bones are still growing, you should be doing aas.... Alot of people at the age of 18 still have a good growth spurt in them... Why not wait until your at least 20+, and filled out a bit more. At 18 your number one concern should be getting laid.. and perhaps school is important too.
07-22-2005, 02:24 PM
Hey swing, hope your enjoying the book. Secondly, did'nt Arnie have to get a heart replacement operation.......oink oink?Originally Posted by SwingGuru
07-22-2005, 04:17 PM
You can milk a lot out of your training and diet I am quite sure. With a few minor modifications to your diet and some MAJOR overhauls to your training I'm sure that you could be doing much better than you are now - wait on the AAS till you have really figured out your body man, otherwise you'll lose them (you might lose them anyhow, some people can't hold on to the gains no matter what, they're cursed, some people just need really elaborate pct regimines).
07-24-2005, 03:24 AM
Already considered that. but the synovex conversion seems very time consuming so I'd rather pop pills for a few weeks. I'll probably do a cycle of superdrol or t-bol, followed by a cycle of anavar. I think that should be enough to achieve my goals.Originally Posted by Poobah
07-24-2005, 03:58 AM
not likely for most with lifting experience. I've lifted for a yr and I'm fairly lean. With the newbie gains behind me, I can't imagine gaining 0.8 pounds of muscle per week with no fat! Only two types of people can do that: overweight untrained people, or people on roids. At this time I am neither of those.putting on 15lbs in 5 months is pretty doable naturally.
If it's so doable why do people take steroids?
I want clean, quality gains (little fat/water). Maintain >85% of the gains after pct. Little sides like acne, hairloss, libido, test suppression.what type of sides are you looking to avoid?
07-24-2005, 08:31 AM
Originally Posted by uberlifter007
people take gear because they are impatient for the most part. hell, thats why i've used it.
clean gains are all about diet. some gear puts on more water weight than others (dbol, anadrol, deca, maybe test) while others provide drying gains (tren, eq, anavar, winny, turnibol, primo, basically all DHT derrived steroids). hairloss is going to depend on your genetics, whether or not you are prone to male pattern baldness. if you are prone, you are going to lose hair no matter what you take for the most part. if you aren't prone there is no worry, you won't shed. i'm lucky in that i am not prone to MPB so i can take highly androgenic compounds without fear of losing hair. if you don't want to lose libido, run some test. as far as test supression, no matter what you use you WILL supress your natural production of test.
the amount of MUSCLE you keep during PCT is completely up to you. you will lose the water weight but if you do proper PCT you will keep all of your muscle gains. nolva, clomid, high protein/cals, lower volume training.
if you have only lifted for one year, putting on 15 lbs in 5 months IS doable naturally. yes you may put on a little bit of fat, but if you bulk cleanly it will be minimal.
i think you are too hung up on the water weight issue. running an oral only cycle of just var or tbol really isn't advised. are you affraid to pin? a cycle of 500 mg test e or cyp per week for 10 weeks with var or tbol to start would be the best cycle for you with VERY keepable gains. if you don't want the bloat that can come with test run some adex during the cycle and the bloat will be minimal.
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