Are you guys tapering at the end of the cycle?

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    Question Are you guys tapering at the end of the cycle?


    Do you guys taper your PH at the end of the cycle. I see cycle lenghts of 4-6 weeks on this board, particularly with the transdermal stuff. Is that including the tapering or not? If you do taper, over what period? With AAS @ Schering tapering happened over a couple of weeks cutting the dose by 50% per week. But that is because the stuff mostly had a longer half life. Since the transdermals are applied twice/day, does that mean they have a shorter half life and the tapering may be done quicker?

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    Tappering is useless. The reason people think it will help is that they think it will help get their balls working faster. You are a doctor.. When you have an artificial source of androgens your nuts shut down after about 3 weeks.... until your body see's a androgen level below what it makes naturally then your balls turn back on... If you taper even to SMALL amount its still more that your body will make naturally so your balls won't start up... Hope that helps..... Talk to ya..
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    Are you talking about using other products to stimulate the indogeonous test? Forget the balls, if you take 60 healthy young males give them both 400mg of Deca/week for 8weeks, while they lift and good diet (2g protein per kg) the average person will gain 26lbs. Now the first 20 stop cold, the 2nd 20 cut the deca dose by 50%---->400-200-100-50mg over 4 weeks, extending the total cycle to 12, the last 20 do the same but use HCG 5000iU/week X 3weeks and the last two weeks, use clomid at 100mg/day for 7 days then 50mg for 3 days, this is what you will get the following results:

    1) First 20 (Cold Crash) Follow up after 3 months of their usual routines, whatever it may be the average weight gain over the base line is 7.2lbs.

    2) Second 20 ( Taper alone) Follow up after 3month , the average weight gain compared to base line is 11.4 lbs

    3) Last 20 (Taper + HCG/Clomid) Follow up after 3 months, the average weight gain compared to baseline is 17.6 lbs.

    Don't ask me where I got the above information. LOL. A lot of young dumb volunteers.

    What this means to me, is that without any post cycle recovery and no tapering the crash is significant.

    HERE IS SOMETHING EVEN MORE IMPORTANT:
    The first group had a much higher estrogenic side effects than the other two groups. Higher riskof gyno 3/20 and higher body fat contents after three months. The explanation we came up with was that while on deca, because of some estrogen conversion and increase in bf to begin with, when the exogenous test suddenly stopped and none indogenous to begin with since the HPA and testes had shut down completely, that there was 100% UNOPPOSED ESTROGENS FLOATING AROUND. Remember that fat itself produces its own estrogen (estrone) this is why fat women have a much higer chance of breast cancer than thin wormen (higher exposure to estrogen over many years).

    The reason I started this thread was because I saw little to none info on tapering and though my exp. and opinion might bring another angle to the subject. Again PH's are not my thing, but since 1-t is not really a PH and is the actual parent compount itself, I thought it would apply. All inputs appreciated. I am here to learn.
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    just want to say alpha, I think it's really cool to have you here, a doc who's been overseas and researched with Schering. neat stuff man. anyhoo, I'm out since I don't know shiot about tapering
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    Too bad they did not do a atest with not taper but post cycle therapy.... And that test is scewed really becasue of course the longer you extend the cycle the more your will retain especially going out to 12 weeks.... We preach good post cycle therapy here. that includes clomid nolva or 6-oxo.. Tappering is no good. The one thing with 1-test is that many people find that after 4 weeks gains substantially subside. So tappeing would not work too well as we try to get as much gains in that 4 weeks as we can........ Sorry if I sound a bit opposing I just hate tappering.. hehe Talk to ya..
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    Going after 8 weeks as far as weight gain is not an issue. With deca and most AAS (there are excepetions) most of the gain is upfront as well. between 4-6 weeks that is where the money is. And the average weigh gain between the 3 groups were less than 1kg, that is group 1 after 8 weeks compared to baseline, and groups 2&3 after 12 weeks. The four weeks of tiny doses did not do anything for them in the weigh gaining department. Now wethere being exposed to the compound even at tiny doses helped them keep the mass, well, that is another reason for tapering right there. When the receptors have been bombarded with 400mg of deca/week for 8 weeks, 200 and lower won't do anything. We had even done research that after a 8 week cycle to double the dose of the parent compound. This was tried with Primobolan, going from 200mg/week to 400mg at the end of 8 weeks for four more weeks at the double dose. This was to see what the lever of resistance was. Doubling the dose did not even put on any more mass or strenth. I've been a member for only a short time, and have gone through all the posts, long hours on call at work. And I see many many posts where people did really good on the cycle but 3mo later their weight was almost back to baseline. Of course without knowing what the hell they did is hard to assume, but it just raises an eyebrow.
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    I do think long cycles are good for retaining all your gains... If you are going to do a long cycle i wound just go with the full dose the whole time.. the reason alot of people lose what they have gained is that they don't kkep up the hard work. they slack off i think and the post cycle is not very good either... i am one of those slackers.. hehehe. talk to ya...
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    I don't believe in tapering off, but I do go back to normal doseage after the first week of front-loading.. Other than that, I don't drop the dose any lower..
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    bigpete, how much do you front load with? And then what do you go down to for normal dosage? Just curious.
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    Originally posted by metacat
    bigpete, how much do you front load with? And then what do you go down to for normal dosage? Just curious.
    Well, I guess it depends on the product, price, and the servings of the product.. Example:

    8-week Trenabol X cycle

    weeks 1-2 dosed 8ml twice a day

    week 3 dosed 6ml twice a day

    week 4- 8 dosed 4ml twice a day

    I purchased 6 bottles, with abit of miscalculation on dosing, I ended up having a spare bottle, so 5 were used for the 56-days I was on..

    If you can take it, the lethargy is extreme... I used oral 4AD at 1200mg. the first two weeks, then 1600mg a day for two weeks, then 1800mg a day for the remainder of the cycle...

    Pricey, get yourself a sugar mama, like I did..
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    Sorry I should have been more specific. I was thinking more like when you do a cycle of 1-t pro. That's all I have ever done so I was kind of curious.

    I just started my second cycle last week, and have been useing the max doseage, 2 pumps twice a day. I thought I would back down to 3 pumps a day for the remainder of my cycle. On my first cycle I used 1 pump twice a day for 2 weeks and then went up to 3 pumps a day and had very minimal gains.
  

  
 

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