Need Size! Anyone Like Deca?

[CEDeoudes59]

I'm looking into the crystal ball here just after looking into the mirror and seeing ~235-240lbs of lankyness.

My lifts are okay, Bench ~360 (no liftoff), Squat 405 x 10-12 ATG (no spot), Deadlift likily over 500. I concentrate on good form more than anything these days. But honestly I have no size, I feel lanky at 6-1.

My training is focused on strength and size in the 4-8 rep range. So I am assuming that is not to blame. And The diet is 3800-4000 calories over 6-7meals, 320+grams of protein.

On a lot of other boards and many Ebooks I have been reading, Deca is very popular - but it is not too popular here for some reason.

It seems pretty popular among power hitting baseball players.

I checked the Deca-Reference Thread but the replies are nill.
http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21724


Help out this 75% natural ectomorph - and tell me what you think of Deca. Or is it simply Test without the strength gains and side effects?

Thanks in advance...

 

[houseman]

deca and what?

 

[CEDeoudes59]

the normal deca, dbol, test. Or just test and deca.

For most stacks on here I never see the deca component

 

[houseman]

Have you run test before?

 

[CEDeoudes59]

currently running - i wondered how deca compared for [size] purposes

 

[houseman]

Hmm.. you're currently on cycle and yet you say "But honestly I have no size"?

Check your diet. 4000 cals is pretty low for guys our size that are looking to bulk and I got an additional 40lbs on you.

 

[CEDeoudes59]

Well, my arms are ~17 - 17.5(at best). My lifts are pretty good. But I see other guys 235-240 with arms 19+. Genetics?
again im only 22, 23 soon enough - I'm just trying to see if I'm missing out on something...

 

[houseman]

Well, my arms are ~17 - 17.5(at best). My lifts are pretty good. But I see other guys 235-240 with arms 19+. Genetics?
again im only 22, 23 soon enough - I'm just trying to see if I'm missing out on something...

A lot of people like Deca. No question about it it's a great drug. It definitely shouldn't be cycled without test otherwise you could experience "deca dick".

Most start with deca right off in their cycle as opposed to mid way.

Will it give you the size you need? Drugs don't work that way. Sure, some drugs can be "bulking" or "cutting" drugs but in the end it all comes down to diet that determines whether you are bulking or not.

500 Above maintaince is not nearly enough calories to bulk on. Consider the fact at maintenance calories + exercise training + factor in the thermo properties of test and one quickly sees 500 cals are not enough.

I seriously think the problem is with your caloric intake.

Also, to point out... as you increase your bodyweight, most significantly your LBM, you require more calories to account for the increased LBM which means you mush continually increase the calories over the time you are on cycle.

 

[Cardinal]

I lot of people like deca. That it can be so suppressive seems to be the problem. The long ester also can take a good while to kick in.

Have you looked into EQ? If eating enough might ever be a problem, that could help out. And it wouldn't be nearly as suppressive as deca. Take it with a grain of salt though as I have never used either compound.

 

[CEDeoudes59]

Thanks for the feedback guys, I guess I've been too anal as of late about bodyfat. My Test 500mg, EQ 400mg cycle - has sort of become a lean mass cycle since I hit 236-239.
I guess more cardio and more food is the solution at this point.

I shouldn't be bitching I'm up ~20-25 lbs in 10 weeks. And not much bodyfat. But it's still a day-to-day thing for me - seeing that my arms are barely up any.

thanks again, normally I wouldn't have started this thread, but Deca is an obscure topic here for some reason

 

[sage]

Im not a huge fan of nandrolone deca. but is it a good drug? Yes. And particularly to your goals of gaining mass, it would be a good stack to combine it with testosterone. The cycle you mentioned with test/deca/dbol would be a good 12 weeker. Depending on your cycle experience and body mass, I would run something similar to this (pretty standard)
Test E (lets say) 500mg/week 1-12
Nan Deconate 400mg/week 1-10/12
Dianabol 30-40mg/day week 1-4/5
*You could vary the dosage again, by your experience.
With a good diet and training, 18-25 lbs could be expected. 8-15 of which, you probably keep.
Sage

 

[XxCrisisxX]

Some people claim that it's a stronger test without the sides and some claim that it's injecectable prolactin. Nandrolone is one of those drugs where everyone responds differently. You just have to try it yourself and see how you like it.

Personally, I've never used it and I don't think I ever will. Sure, it's a little stronger anabolically than test but there's a few things I don't like about it. First off, there's always the prolactin issue (which is what kills libido by the way). Secondly, the deconate ester blows. It takes forever to kick in and lingers around for a while and the ester itself is huge. I think you'll see the same size gains if you just up the dose of test to 1000mg or so (may save ya some money too). Good luck!

 

[oldfart]

I'm looking into the crystal ball here just after looking into the mirror and seeing ~235-240lbs of lankyness.

My lifts are okay, Bench ~360 (no liftoff), Squat 405 x 10-12 ATG (no spot), Deadlift likily over 500. I concentrate on good form more than anything these days. But honestly I have no size, I feel lanky at 6-1.

My training is focused on strength and size in the 4-8 rep range. So I am assuming that is not to blame. And The diet is 3800-4000 calories over 6-7meals, 320+grams of protein.

On a lot of other boards and many Ebooks I have been reading, Deca is very popular - but it is not too popular here for some reason.

It seems pretty popular among power hitting baseball players.

I checked the Deca-Reference Thread but the replies are nill.
http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21724


Help out this 75% natural ectomorph - and tell me what you think of Deca. Or is it simply Test without the strength gains and side effects?

Thanks in advance...

Have you ever considered that your muscle fibers are predominantly type II? This would mean that you have no trouble getting strong but that you may have trouble putting on muscle size.

I am predominantly type I. I have 18.5" arms and lift nowhere near what you do. I have always been weaker than most people I know but have always put on size much easier than they.

Since you feel that your strength is disproportionate to your size, why not try higher rep ranges? Say 8-12. This will recruit more of your type I fibers and should help to maximize your size gains while on cycle.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Tad50]

i've used deca and liked it very much. I have to agree with Houseman, however. You need to give your body time to grow. It's not going to happen overnight. With your strength, you should see some increase in size, but not immediately. Remember, strength comes before size. Also, a simple change in diet may be all you need. Take my brother for example. He was at a plateau for awhile until he started taking in more food (very clean btw). This simple change is what created a solid 15 lbs of growth in about 6 months (with very minimal fat gain). He got his weight up to 282 lbs. just by taking his diet to another level. No drugs or anything.


Again, give it time....if you eat it.....it will come

 

[DieTrying]

I don't use AAS so I can't help there, but i will tell you that a rep range of 4-8 is not optimal for stimulating growth.

 

[CDB]

Have you ever considered that your muscle fibers are predominantly type II? This would mean that you have no trouble getting strong but that you may have trouble putting on muscle size.

I am predominantly type I. I have 18.5" arms and lift nowhere near what you do. I have always been weaker than most people I know but have always put on size much easier than they.

Since you feel that your strength is disproportionate to your size, why not try higher rep ranges? Say 8-12. This will recruit more of your type I fibers and should help to maximize your size gains while on cycle.

Just my 2 cents.

Type IIA and IIB muscle fibers are the ones that demonstrate the most hypertrophy.

 

[CROWLER]

Old Fart makes some VERY good points IMO.



CROWLER

 

[CEDeoudes59]

thanks for the feedback guys, it was excellent.

perhaps I am seeing more size gains than I am willing to admit. Either way, I plan to alternate between 4-6 reps or 9-13reps in workouts. We shall see what that does, if it makes a big difference - I'll consider going 8-12 reps entirely (i guess i'd be a committed Bodybuilder then?)

still it is odd, as the scale goes up - you would assume size would up to. Not really the case. gone up 20lbs in the past 10weeks - and it doesn't seem like 20lbs of 'size'. hmpf.... :blink:

i am upwards of 6-1 though...

 

[Beelzebub]

IMO, 20lbs is a good gain and if you can keep half of that after it's said and done, it was a success. i'm facing a similar issue currently, i gained an initial 22lbs very quickly, now just hanging around the same weight while lifts are increasing. using the measuring tape to judge the cycle from now on. the scale is a poor way to judge gains during cycle. if you're dropping bf and adding muscle, then the scale wouldn't change much.

 

[CEDeoudes59]

what do you suggest then coach?

cut the cycle short? I'm scheduled for 7-8 more weeks. And i've already upped the dose to TestE750/EQ600. Have I hit a plateau for gains at week 10? (obviously everyone is different, and diet is key) but is 10weeks usually the slowdown point?

Hold only half of the gains !?

man, I'm going to be depressed if I don't hold onto 90% of them.

I always held onto 95% of my M1T 2weekers. Hopefully PCT will be smooth...

 

[Beelzebub]

2 weekers and 20 weekers are like comparing my calves to exnihilo's.

nah, i wouldn't cut the cycle short. are your lifts still increasing? what are your plans for post anyway?

 

[CEDeoudes59]

longer cycles, more retainable gains, yes?

plans for post include:
Nolva, Clomid
ATD started a week before cycles end and tapered up
a non-alcoholic trip to somewhere in the USA, ill need a vacation after 18 weeks of going strong

should I close with prop?
100,50mg EOD for the last 2 weeks? or extend to 4 weeks?

 

[Beelzebub]

prop is always a good choice to close with. you know the guy to talk to

ATD is a good addition. rebound really impressed me last time, i think you'll be happy. my estimation of half-gains kept was an exaggeration, no worries. you know what to do.

 

[CEDeoudes59]

Rebound was awesome. I had better strength gains with rebound than with superdrol. Hopefully the majority of this bloat, is in fact - bloat - and not fat gain.

Beelze, I'll PM you tomorow - got a question for you about this 20 year old kid with 19.5 arms on HRT. can you believe it? I'll fill you in - i'm not sure what to believe...

 

[Cuffs]

the scale is a poor way to judge gains during cycle. if you're dropping bf and adding muscle

Bump that Beelz.

Too many people rely on the numbers from a scale. Tape measure, calipers, the mirror, fit of clothes, and the compliments your receive are the way to judge your success, or lack there of.

 

[houseman]

I'd go to 16 weeks.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

Post your routine, deo....methinks ur the kinda guy who likes to "push it", which may bit you in the ass eventually. I'd like to see what u do for a week of training

 

[CEDeoudes59]

I'll get something together (i've been training one exercise a day to enable 2 recovery days a week).

For example:
Monday
Incline Bench (6,6,6,3)
Biceps Curls (10,8,6,6)
Calves (15,10,8,8)

and friday
Incline DB (8,6,6)
Calves no weight (50,30)
Triceps (10,6,6)
Shoulders (10,8,6)

Obviously Back and Legs share a two day rotation.
I get done with the workout and don't feel i've done 'enough' because i was used to blasting one bodypart a day to hell...

 

[CEDeoudes59]

honestly this sort of 'routine' used to be my PCT routine.
and actually I'm pretty good at retaining gains PCT... so it's hardly 'overtraining' to me. again, I was always used to doing the magazine workouts of 12+ sets per body part a day. I'm not reverting to that... but the next day I wish muscles were more tight so I could at least say 'hey you must have had a decent workout'

I don't know how i really feel, perhaps simply more reps is the key?

 

[CEDeoudes59]

after doing:
Incline Bench 8,6,4,3...

the next day I could do it again. But I don't obviously. I'm just not sore.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

I'm still kinda confused on the workout....

Frequency is a good idea, IMHO.

For me, something like a chest day would be:
Flat BB x 3, Incline smith x 3, Machine x 3 and then 3-4 days later I would do two light weight sets (i.e. 225 x 8) nowhere near failure, just to stimulate the muscle. I do that for most BP's. I do side laterals after chest workouts, etc...who knows, maybe it works maybe it doesn't

 

[CEDeoudes59]

see that's the thing, I don't have the 'chest' day anymore.
It's basically the DC theory of recovering 2 times a week, with less sets. can't say that this is the best - i don't know yet really.

 

[CROWLER]

Yea but in the DC theory you would not be doing the number of sets you are doing.

If you are happy with your gains don't change anything.

IMO you are not eating enough and doing too many sets.

Keep the log going I am learning things thanks.

CROWLER

 

[CEDeoudes59]

i'm defintely going to try and eat more. I sure got to from 212 to 236 quickly... can't quite get over this hump.

 

[CROWLER]

I find that for myself too. It is almost as if my body doesn't want to gain more so even the same meal I ate with no problem the week before I have to force it down.

CROWLER