The rollercoaster of Gains and Losses

[Mach .78]

I was over at Iron Addicts doing some reading. Here's something I thought was worth sharing with this forum.

Guys who gain 25-30 lbs per cycle....
Written by Phreezer

Here’s some info for guys who want to gain 20-25lbs on a cycle:

Everyone wants to know how to gain high poundages on a cycle. We’ve all got a “friend� in a gym somewhere that gained 25lbs on his last cycle and we want to do the same. We ask ourselves…What is his secret? Is the juice he’s taking that good? Is it a good diet in conjunction with the test.. is that what is responsible? Well, here’s the answer.. NO, his particular anabolic compound of choice be it Sustanon, Winstrol, Dbol, Tren, etc… isn’t so great that whoever takes one of those compounds will grow.. nor is his diet so “on� that he will gain more than us.

Here’s the truth.. and some of you won’t like it.. Some of you may even get pissed off.. The reason these guys grow so much on their cycles is because they shouldn’t even be using steroids to begin with… And that’s the truth… That may sound a bit confusing.. yes? Well allow me to elaborate…

You take a 20 yr old male. He has been lifting on and off for six months or so… He’s about 6 foot tall maybe a little shorter.. 5’10� or so.. He weighs about 165lbs.. He’s got a little bit of definition.. nothing big.. when his shirt is off people can tell he’s been working out.. He decides one day that he wants to take steroids, He sees the really big guys in the gym and he wants to be like them right now.. he doesn’t want to wait any longer.. in his mind six months has been long enough.. So he gets on the internet.. he finds a message board similar to this one.. he reads a little .. finds a hook up.. and decides to run 250mg of test and 300mg of deca for two months and ends up weighing around 185 or 190.. All of his friends are amazed.. he’s amazed He’s put on some size.. he looks like a weight lifter.. he doesn’t look like someone who could compete.. but he looks like he’s finally arrived on the Body building scene… His closest friends are so impressed that they want to run the exact same cycle .. He tells them exactly what he did.. how he ate..etc… Now, a few months go by.. all of a sudden the kid is back to around 165 maybe 170.. He thinks.. “Oh man.. I’ve got to get back on cycle.. I need those drugs to be big.. if I don’t.. I just can’t grow… Steroids require that I stay on all the time to maintain the kind of size that I want�… I guess that’s what he has to do; huh; stay on all the time?

Now, here’s the reason he gained 25lbs on his cycle.. He was so far from his genetic potential that once the anabolic compounds were introduced into his system he grew like a weed.. His body didn’t need to struggle to put on that mass, because it was quite capable of adding that much mass naturally.. The steroids just sped it up..

it is for lack of a better or more accurate word.. a short cut to get to where he could have gotten natural anyway. His inevitable weight loss after coming off his "super" cycle wasn’t from the lack of steroids.. it was from a lack of a proper foundation.. a Lack of proper training skills, and a lack of muscular maturation…

Here’s the deal.. guys who need steroids aren’t the guys who are growing 25+lbs per cycle.. they are gaining 10lbs and hopefully keeping 5-8.. They are struggling to even do that.. I’ll tell you from personal experience.. I am 30 yrs old 6’2� .. I am 284lbs currently.. I am 17% BF (I’m a powerlifter/strongman.. so I keep a little extra fat on me)…If I wanted to keep the same body fat % I have now and weigh 300lbs.. I would have to run a very long cycle..or in all honesty it will take me two full cycles to get to 3 bills..

An average cycle for me is about 750mg Test, 450mg Deca, 300mg EQ and Some Dbol in the front and at the end… Those are some fairly heavy dosages...Why don’t I gain 25lbs per cycle?

Because No matter how much gear I take.. no matter how much I eat.. my body is so far beyond it’s genetic potential that I simply can’t add that kind of radical mass anymore..

My body does a fairly good job of maintaining mass when I’m not on cycle.. but I do drop weight regardless.. and in truth, the only reason my body maintains it’s size as well as it does is because of Muscle maturation.. My body is used to carrying around that muscle.. it’s not a shock to my body to carry it around.. And I built a solid mass foundation naturally years ago.. I reached my genetic potential before I started using juice.. Lifting was a habbit and a lifestyle for me because I played football from Junior high through College.

I’ve worked out in gyms all over the country.. and I have been doing so for the better part of a decade.. and I'll tell you, I have seen a lot of little guys blow up for a couple of months from a cycle only to deflate a couple of months later..It's the truth.. Muscle Maturation plays a huge key in keeping mass... that and proper training skills.. (and no hitting bench 3 days a week and squating once every few months doesn't count)

So in truth, when you hear about some guy who gained 25-30lbs off of a cycle.. Please keep in mind that he is probably some impatient tiny punk that could have easily gained the same amount of muscle had he just been a little more patient.. If he had just been focused on learning how to train.. focused on how to eat…

This is a lifestyle.. there are no short cuts if you want to be the real deal.... There will never be a fly by nighter even win the smallest amateur comp in booney fu*king Iowa if he hasn't been serious for years...

It's important that you guys learn that Juice may seem like the best short cut in the beginning... but whenever you add that much mass that quickly from gear.. Your body isn’t goint to be ready for it.. it will literally fight you to keep it.. the sudden size and strength will stress the ligaments, tendons, bones and central nervous system and Your body will do everything that it can to shed those rapid muscle gains.. Decent muscle mass is only kept through time and hard work (cough.. cough.. it's a cliche.. but it's still true).. and it's important that your gains aren't so fast that the body can't adjust healthfuly to it’s new weight gain..

I've been on the boards for years.. and I'll tell you, 80% of the people on these boards are wannabes and posers.. they are guys who won’t even be working out six months from now.. They are impatient and are looking for the shortcut.. they may even get a few short term results.. but in the long run they will come out behind everyone else..(and when I say long run.. i mean less than a year or two)

These kind of guys will never be anything more than a hobbyist.. and in truth...that is probably the case in every other aspect of their lives as well, not just weight lifting..

So in the end my advice is this.. if you are wanting to add some mass..and you’re stuck.. learn a different training method.. change your diet.. and if you’re a good size.. (that’s when everyone who is in the room with you knows you’re a weight lifter.. if you walk in a room, and everyone in there doesn’t know that you lift… you are not ready for steroids) then come and sit down.. and we’ll talk about steroids.. until then… Learn how to train.. learn how to eat.. and spend some time in the gym.. you’ll be so much better off in the end…

 

[kwyckemynd00]

Yeah, I read that....it's a good read and very true, IMHO.

I like the part where it basically says that if you don't look like you workout when you have your shirt on, you're not ready :rofl: :rofl: <-- Its true!!!

 

[lifted]

I agree for the most part. Gaining that kinda weight that fast is very unhealthy. I myself started using AAS about 1.5-2 years into my training and I regret it, even when I'm currently on a cycle...I still regret it...lol.

The base must be built first....and then comes the juice. I went up to 185-190 from 160 before I ever touched a drug...and I could kick my own ass for starting AAS at that small of a size....

 

[Adawg]

EXCELLENT READ MAN!

 

[Syr]

I dont completely agree on the message, but one thing is very true: the biggest and fastest gains are the first to go.

Another thing, mass is pretty easy to put on for noobs, but not strenght. And that is the foundation for solid keepable gains.

 

[SprtNvolcoM]

Nice Read ... I can relate. I was one of those kids when I first started lifting. I regret it, but when your young and dumb you don't use your head and you rarely think in terms of your future. Live and learn I guess.

Another thing, mass is pretty easy to put on for noobs, but not strenght. And that is the foundation for solid keepable gains.

I could agree more with this statment ... If you cant continue pushing your "ON" cycle RMS or loads, you cant expect to keep the muscle you gained on cycle; which was once conditioned to those loads. You will definitely atrophy to some degree.

 

[exnihilo]

People shouldn't juice (IMO) until their natty gains become extremely slow even with the best training protocols and proper coaching.

 

[Cardinal]

I understand the sentiment, but it would be pretty hypocritical of me to agree with this overall. I started PH/PS at 180lbs. As an endo I knew getting to 250 would be easy as long as I put food in my mouth. But it sure would have been ugly and/or slow for me if I had waited and fought it out naturally. I can't say I made the wrong decision based on my goals and results in the last year.

 

[bigdawg55]

(Another thing, mass is pretty easy to put on for noobs, but not strenght. And that is the foundation for solid keepable gains.[/QUOTE] )


Well said. It takes time for those tendons to develope.

 

[CEDeoudes59]

Written by Phreezer
These kind of guys will never be anything more than a hobbyist.. and in truth...that is probably the case in every other aspect of their lives as well, not just weight lifting..

WOW. WOW. Isn't that is the truth???
I have so many friends that fit that exact description.
I don't think I'll ever want to be a competitve bodybuilder, but I am so happy I trained for over 4-5 years before starting anabolics. You have to pay your dues, you have to hit that point of frustration where you can't gain **** anymore no matter how you mess with your diet or training.
That description is so true.

 

[DieTrying]

Another thing, mass is pretty easy to put on for noobs, but not strenght. And that is the foundation for solid keepable gains.

Actually its quite the opposite. Strength generally comes first. Muscle fiber hypertrophy requires a longer period of training time to increase the contractile protein content.

 

[CEDeoudes59]

Actually its quite the opposite. Strength generally comes first. Muscle fiber hypertrophy requires a longer period of training time to increase the contractile protein content.

This is certainly true in case my case. I'm a 75% Ecto, 25% Meso.

 

[rippedsucka]

Very good post brother

 

[dbow196]

Great Post

Good post man. I've been lifting for 10 years (30yo now) and have just started the juice since my gains have slowed down. Good to know the wait was worth it.


db

 

[Syr]

Actually its quite the opposite. Strength generally comes first. Muscle fiber hypertrophy requires a longer period of training time to increase the contractile protein content.

I dindt say what comes first, but what is easier to gain in a short period of time. I'm surely different than you, but i'm a hard gainer in both mass and strenght
A big role is played by the kind of training that u use, and btw, if you do roids (that was referred to), its easier to put mass than strength, with all differences between compound used, altough 99% of new juicers run mostly bulking agents.
And that when u are off, if you cant keep the lifts needed to sustain all those muscles, they fade to a more natural plateau. if instead you build the strenght first and along with mass, the gains will be keepable, even if you are not a very experienced lifter.

 

[max silver]

I'm definitely a culprit of using anabolics way too soon, and if I had to do it over again I'd likely stay away from steroids completely. I'm seriously giving consideration to staying away from steroid use from here on out, even though the rapidfire gains I made on my first cycle were pretty damn exhilerating to say the least.

Of course, even though I say this, I still do have a stockpile of goodies at my disposal, which are very tempting.

 

[Boss_K]

Great post. I worked out 6 yrs before touching anabolics. I only put on 15 lbs my first cycle, and that was 1.4g test per week. I lost 5 since coming off....

 

[lifter2005]

I'm definitely a culprit of using anabolics way too soon, and if I had to do it over again I'd likely stay away from steroids completely. I'm seriously giving consideration to staying away from steroid use from here on out, even though the rapidfire gains I made on my first cycle were pretty damn exhilerating to say the least.

Of course, even though I say this, I still do have a stockpile of goodies at my disposal, which are very tempting.

Just out of curiosity, what was your first cycle that caused "rapidfire gains"?

 

[darius]

I was 20 when I did my Superdrol/19-Nor cycle. Gained quite a bit, something like 15 or 16lbs, lost 4-5lbs. I was 215lbs or so, I'm about 230 right now @ 6'3". Bench press went upwards to a 50lb increase. Kept the size, lost the strength (dunno how thats possible, but thats what happend, lost like 4-5lbs). But then again I did a shitty pct. Live and learn. Next time pct will be different.

 

[Mess]

I Agree

Great Post Mach, and thank you for sharing it with others

 

[Mach .78]

Great Post Mach, and thank you for sharing it with others

You are welcome and I will continue to stay on the lookout for articles that will help everyone achieve their potential. Let's all grow together.:thumbsup:

 

[skih00k]

So would it be possible to apply a general rule to mass and strength retention following a cycle given proper PCT, solid nutrition, and continued training?

Something like 45% mass retention and 75% strength retention for a dry compound?


Is your ability to retain really all that dependent on training maturity or more on proper PCT, nutrition, and continued training?

 

[lifted]

So would it be possible to apply a general rule to mass and strength retention following a cycle given proper PCT, solid nutrition, and continued training?

Something like 45% mass retention and 75% strength retention for a dry compound?


Is your ability to retain really all that dependent on training maturity or more on proper PCT, nutrition, and continued training?

It is based on all these things...how much and to what degree of each is impossible to say as everyone's different. However if you do a succesful PCT then your chances have just skyrocketed.