BLOOD WORK AFTER DMZ

[Punkrocker]

ok so I did a 30 day cycle of dmz that I cut short on day 21 because the anxiety made me CRAZY.

Bloodwork before dmZ

Total cholesterol 170ish

HDL 70
LDL 60something
Triglycerides 74

AFTER DMZ(support supps was talos cycle support and 10 grams fish oil)

Total cholesterol 159

HDL 43(ouch)
LDL 116(Oof!)
triglycerides 29 interesting


So basically it cut my good cholesterol in half and doubled my bad cholesterol. That was 21 days at 20mg per day WITH cycle support. No wonder ppl get heart attacks from this stuff

 

[Montego1]

It's a very strong oral.

Most any oral besides Proviron will have a negative impact on lipids.

They'll come back. Just keep diet clean and add on a little cardio.

ok so I did a 30 day cycle of dmz that I cut short on day 21 because the anxiety made me CRAZY.

Bloodwork before dmZ

Total cholesterol 170ish

HDL 70
LDL 60something
Triglycerides 74

AFTER DMZ(support supps was talos cycle support and 10 grams fish oil)

Total cholesterol 159

HDL 43(ouch)
LDL 116(Oof!)
triglycerides 29 interesting


So basically it cut my good cholesterol in half and doubled my bad cholesterol. That was 21 days at 20mg per day WITH cycle support. No wonder ppl get heart attacks from this stuff

 

[Punkrocker]

It's a very strong oral.

Most any oral besides Proviron will have a negative impact on lipids.

They'll come back. Just keep diet clean and add on a little cardio.

Yeah bro. Even my doctor told me that cholesterol bounces back fairly quick. I eat pretty sugar free. Fairly low carb (less than 200g a day) and I eat alot of protein and fats which I would assume is why my cholesterol is normally great. I'm never doing this again

 

[mikeymike85]

I don't think anyone has had a heart attack off DMZ, lol, simmer down its not Meth. The numbers return to normal quickly.

 

[Punkrocker]

I don't think anyone has had a heart attack off DMZ, lol, simmer down its not Meth. The numbers return to normal quickly.

I meant orals. Basically doing cycles including orals again and again is gonna CLOG THE PIPES

 

[Matthersby]

Brotha, where are your liver enzymes??

 

[2kvette]

These are effects that take many years(like decades) to build up unless you have a genetic defect like familial hypercholesterolemia. Also, something that isn't often mentioned is reverse cholesterol transport. Its one of the theory's on why TRT in the short term leads to a less healthy lipid profile, but long term appears to have a beneficial affect on lipids. The pro-atherosclerotic lipid profile is due to the androgens inducing lipolysis. But once the increased fat burning levels out, it returns to normal. Which is why we see the short term trashing of the lipid profile but long term it appears neutral or beneficial.

 

[Punkrocker]

Brotha, where are your liver enzymes??

Doctor couldn't test my liver enzymes because for insurance purposes, she wrote that I had high blood pressure (I don't) and needed to check my cholesterol and kidneys because of it. Kidneys are fine and if my liver was thrashed my kidneys would be looking bad as well. I was taking tudca and NAC. I'm sure my enzymes are ok. Guess I'll have to doit like the old school bodybuilders did it. Look in the mirror, not yellow, good to go! lol

 

[Punkrocker]

These are effects that take many years(like decades) to build up unless you have a genetic defect like familial hypercholesterolemia. Also, something that isn't often mentioned is reverse cholesterol transport. Its one of the theory's on why TRT in the short term leads to a less healthy lipid profile, but long term appears to have a beneficial affect on lipids. The pro-atherosclerotic lipid profile is due to the androgens inducing lipolysis. But once the increased fat burning levels out, it returns to normal. Which is why we see the short term trashing of the lipid profile but long term it appears neutral or beneficial.

Wow that's very interesting! I get spooked though for example look at the death of Dallas mccarver, he was 26. 90% blockage of his coronary artery. I'm sure there is some genetic component involved, but how the hell do I know if I have some genetic issue too? Better safe than sorry my dude. My ancestors didn't struggle, bleed and fight horrendous wars for their exsistance just to ensure that once I am born I can kill myself with cholesterol altering anabolics lol maybe I should just stick to boldenone

 

[2kvette]

Wow that's very interesting! I get spooked though for example look at the death of Dallas mccarver, he was 26. 90% blockage of his coronary artery. I'm sure there is some genetic component involved, but how the hell do I know if I have some genetic issue too? Better safe than sorry my dude. My ancestors didn't struggle, bleed and fight horrendous wars for their exsistance just to ensure that once I am born I can kill myself with cholesterol altering anabolics lol maybe I should just stick to boldenone

Dallas mccarver is a great example of this actually. He did have familial hypercholesterolemia, which coupled with his unhealthy lifestyle, lead to atherosclerosis in his coronary artery. He was genetically predisposed to his already. Now, on top of this, he also had LVH, which lead to an arrhythmia, which caused his death. LVH is common in athletes, but someone his size had LVH on another level. His GH use caused the LVH to be blown way out of proportion. His steroid use MAY have affected his lipid profile. But his lipid profile was already in the crapper genetically, I doubt steroids played a big role. They certifiably didnt help. But honestly, I can say the steroids were not the biggest factor in his death, and they 100% were not the direct cause. Dallas McCarver is the picture of the worst possible genetics a person can possibly have if they want to be a bodybuilder.

In summary, McCarver died of an arrhythmia d/t an enlarged heart. The blockage, though severe, didn't cause a heart attack, though it indicates it was coming very soon.

Ill leave you with the last part of his autopsy report.

"There is significant overlap in features related to naturally-occuring and/or familial cardiovascular disease and those resulting from chronic use of exogenous hormones, and these factors are best viewed as synergistic contributors to Mr. McCarver's premature death."

 

[Punkrocker]

Dallas mccarver is a great example of this actually. He did have familial hypercholesterolemia, which coupled with his unhealthy lifestyle, lead to atherosclerosis in his coronary artery. He was genetically predisposed to his already. Now, on top of this, he also had LVH, which lead to an arrhythmia, which caused his death. LVH is common in athletes, but someone his size had LVH on another level. His GH use caused the LVH to be blown way out of proportion. His steroid use MAY have affected his lipid profile. But his lipid profile was already in the crapper genetically, I doubt steroids played a big role. They certifiably didnt help. But honestly, I can say the steroids were not the biggest factor in his death, and they 100% were not the direct cause. Dallas McCarver is the picture of the worst possible genetics a person can possibly have if they want to be a bodybuilder.

In summary, McCarver died of an arrhythmia d/t an enlarged heart. The blockage, though severe, didn't cause a heart attack, though it indicates it was coming very soon.

Ill leave you with the last part of his autopsy report.

"There is significant overlap in features related to naturally-occuring and/or familial cardiovascular disease and those resulting from chronic use of exogenous hormones, and these factors are best viewed as synergistic contributors to Mr. McCarver's premature death."

I get heart palpitations but I've been to a cardiologist and had all sorts of tests done ekg, echocardiogram, holtermonitor and everything looks good. No enlargement, no weird ventricles so I guess I'm ok. Doc says palpitations are normal and to stop being a ***got

 

[Power-Lift]

Most any oral besides Proviron will have a negative impact on lipids.

Monty, Ive read Proviron does affect lipids negatively. Not saying youre wrong (you know much more than I do) maybe depends on the person I guess like any other drug (possibly). Ill read up more on it...

 

[bradleyt1]

Doctor couldn't test my liver enzymes because for insurance purposes, she wrote that I had high blood pressure (I don't) and needed to check my cholesterol and kidneys because of it. Kidneys are fine and if my liver was thrashed my kidneys would be looking bad as well. I was taking tudca and NAC. I'm sure my enzymes are ok. Guess I'll have to doit like the old school bodybuilders did it. Look in the mirror, not yellow, good to go! lol

Yeh didn’t arnold just grab a handful of dianabol like most other guys from that era and ran that for god knows how long

 

[RickyBlobby]

Yeh didn’t arnold just grab a handful of dianabol like most other guys from that era and ran that for god knows how long

Yeah, Arnold ran dbol year round from everything I read. It was his "test base" too. But dbol is not near as harsh a drug as DMZ. Dbol, var, tbol are all compounds that appear pretty safe for long term usage.

 

[Matthersby]

Doctor couldn't test my liver enzymes because for insurance purposes, she wrote that I had high blood pressure (I don't) and needed to check my cholesterol and kidneys because of it. Kidneys are fine and if my liver was thrashed my kidneys would be looking bad as well. I was taking tudca and NAC. I'm sure my enzymes are ok. Guess I'll have to doit like the old school bodybuilders did it. Look in the mirror, not yellow, good to go! lol

Something as toxic as DMZ, Msten, SD, Halo, liver enzymes are pretty much the only thing I’m looking at usually. Lipids bounce back quick and if you eat clean all year long, they are super manageable. No doc has to justify much to run a Comprehensive Metabolic Panel. I just throw in a few mild symptoms so they’ll test it: mild right upper quadrant pain, everything tastes a little like ammonia/copper, decreased appetite, etc. The kidneys are literally not an organ bodybuilders need worry about, drink water, keep BP low, done. 99% of kidney failure patients have uncontrolled hypertension or or aggressive diabetes that were not controlled for years/decades. The other 1% is ibuprofen overdose, blunt trauma, drug overdose and polycyclic kidney disease. Not a one of them is a bodybuilder. Except Flex Wheeler who had a serious preexisting condition. A gym rat, bro, or serious athlete will year round have slightly high BUN and Creatinine on their lab values running drugs or not. The kidneys can accept this extra strain for 150 years where most of us will dedicate ourselves to this hobby for maybe 40 years. Always getting liver enzymes tested will show you to what extent your liver is being strained. I’m at the point where I rarely consider running orals. A few times a year maybe, and only when they fit my goals better than an injectable. It does not get easier on your body. When I was 27, I ran SD@20/day for 5 weeks, had no lethargy, ate like a champion, and drank every weekend. I can’t even finish week 4 now @10/day from lethargy and zero appetite, even with Tudca and additional liver support, and also haven’t drank in 9 years but obviously know much better now to on an oral anyways. Luckily, with some knowledge going in, and labs, those enzymes will come back down and the liver will almost certainly recover to 100%

 

[Punkrocker]

Something as toxic as DMZ, Msten, SD, Halo, liver enzymes are pretty much the only thing I’m looking at usually. Lipids bounce back quick and if you eat clean all year long, they are super manageable. No doc has to justify much to run a Comprehensive Metabolic Panel. I just throw in a few mild symptoms so they’ll test it: mild right upper quadrant pain, everything tastes a little like ammonia/copper, decreased appetite, etc. The kidneys are literally not an organ bodybuilders need worry about, drink water, keep BP low, done. 99% of kidney failure patients have uncontrolled hypertension or or aggressive diabetes that were not controlled for years/decades. The other 1% is ibuprofen overdose, blunt trauma, drug overdose and polycyclic kidney disease. Not a one of them is a bodybuilder. Except Flex Wheeler who had a serious preexisting condition. A gym rat, bro, or serious athlete will year round have slightly high BUN and Creatinine on their lab values running drugs or not. The kidneys can accept this extra strain for 150 years where most of us will dedicate ourselves to this hobby for maybe 40 years. Always getting liver enzymes tested will show you to what extent your liver is being strained. I’m at the point where I rarely consider running orals. A few times a year maybe, and only when they fit my goals better than an injectable. It does not get easier on your body. When I was 27, I ran SD@20/day for 5 weeks, had no lethargy, ate like a champion, and drank every weekend. I can’t even finish week 4 now @10/day from lethargy and zero appetite, even with Tudca and additional liver support, and also haven’t drank in 9 years but obviously know much better now to on an oral anyways. Luckily, with some knowledge going in, and labs, those enzymes will come back down and the liver will almost certainly recover to 100%

Interesting that you mention the BUN creatinine thing. So get this, couple years ago I kept getting elevated creatinine and BUN. nothing crazy but like maybe 1.3 creatinine and like 25-30 BUN. I then learned that high protein and more muscle mass will give you those readings so I stopped worrying about it. Fast forward to current day and my BUN is still on the high normal end, but my creatinine is now 0.9 which is obviously normal and fine. But now I'm worried as to why it isint as high? DID I LOSE MY GAINS!?

 

[Matthersby]

Better water intake, less protein within 2 days of labs, less significant gains(they aren’t as drastic as those first few years Newbie gains) could be just variable stuff. As there’s so many variables anyways. You’re good. They could be much higher today and much less tomorrow.

 

[Punkrocker]

Better water intake, less protein within 2 days of labs, less significant gains(they aren’t as drastic as those first few years Newbie gains) could be just variable stuff. As there’s so many variables anyways. You’re good. They could be much higher today and much less tomorrow.

Never thought I'd worry when my kidney values are actually IN range lol

 

[2kvette]

Interesting that you mention the BUN creatinine thing. So get this, couple years ago I kept getting elevated creatinine and BUN. nothing crazy but like maybe 1.3 creatinine and like 25-30 BUN. I then learned that high protein and more muscle mass will give you those readings so I stopped worrying about it. Fast forward to current day and my BUN is still on the high normal end, but my creatinine is now 0.9 which is obviously normal and fine. But now I'm worried as to why it isint as high? DID I LOSE MY GAINS!?

If BUN is low it means less muscle is being destroyed in the setting of a well trained athlete. Urea is a metabolic breakdown product of proteins, like muscle protein. Your body is holding onto muscle instead of burning it. It indicates an anabolic State. CrCl just tells you how well the glomerulus is filtering out creatinine from the blood.

 

[Punkrocker]

If BUN is low it means less muscle is being destroyed in the setting of a well trained athlete. Urea is a metabolic breakdown product of proteins, like muscle protein. Your body is holding onto muscle instead of burning it. It indicates an anabolic State. CrCl just tells you how well the glomerulus is filtering out creatinine from the blood.

I ****ing love this forum

 

[Matthersby]

I ****ing love this forum

I know, right?