New Bruce Kneller Product? Or Novedex Reformulation?

  1. Pax
    Pax is offline
    Gold Member
    Pax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Age
    36
    Posts
    267
    Answers
    0

    New Bruce Kneller Product? Or Novedex Reformulation?


    This was sent to me via email from a friend who owns a nutrition store:

    Technical Brief for 2-Ene Steroidal Compounds for Sale as Food Supplements


    Written & Edited By:



    Bruce W. Kneller





    Name of compound(s): 5alpha-androst-2-en-17-one;

    5alpha-androst-2-en-17beta-ol



    Alternate nomenclature(s): 17-keto-2-etioallocholene;

    17b-hydroxy-2-etioallocholene



    Brief: 17-keto-2-etioallocholene (Pheromone 1) and 17b-hydroxy-2-etioallocholene (Pheromone 2) are naturally occurring, oestrous-related pheromonones of the female Asian elephant (Elephas maximus) that are known to induce behavioral responses in elephant bulls (Reproduction. 2001 Mar;121(3):475-84). Neither compound is known to be found naturally in primates, including humans although Pheromonone 1 could possibly be found naturally on human skin as it is a potential, metabolic by-product of dehydroepiandrosterone degradation when incubated with human axillary bacterial isolates in various culture media (J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 1997 Sep-Oct;63(1-3):81-9).



    Currently, neither Pheromonone 1 or 2 are federally scheduled as C-III or considered “anabolic steroids� at the Federal or any State level.



    It is clear that Pheromonone I and Pheromonone II are chemically unrelated to testosterone for the following reasons –



    • Testosterone is saturated in the A-ring at carbon # 4 while Pheromonone 1 and 2 are saturated in the A-ring at carbon #2.


    • Testosterone is aromatizable to various estrogens in the human body by the CYP class of enzymes found in humans while Pheromonone I and II can not be converted to estrogens by humans because they are already reduced fully at carbon # 5.


    • Testosterone also has a ketone functional group at carbon # 3 in the A-ring while Pheromonone 1 and Pheromonone 2 do not have any functional group attachments anywhere in the A-ring.


    • Additionally, testosterone is formed endogenously in humans by the metabolization of androstenedione. Neither Pheromonone 1 or Pheromonone 2 is formed endogenously in any primates, including humans.


    Although a synthetic, carbon #17 alpha-alkylated analog to Pheromonone 1 (17alpha-methyl-5alpha-androst-2-en-17beta-ol aka “Madol�) was found by the World Anti-Doping Agency in Montreal and The UCLA lab and the Doping Control Laboratory of Athens recently and labeled a “Designer Steroid�, this is clearly a synthetic analog to the Pheromonone I and has, chemical, pharmacological and pharmacokinetic properties that are unique and significantly different than Pheromonone 1 and Pheromonone 2.



    Clearly, although chemically ‘related’ to Madol or methylandrostenol, Pheromonone 1 and Phermone 2 are distinctly different in that they are naturally occurring and are likely to be far less hepatotoxic because they both lack the carbon #17 alpha-alkylation that Madol possesses. It is unlikely that Pheromome 1 and Pheromonone 2 will have the same hepatic metabolites as Madol for this reason also.



    Madol, which was first reported in a patent in 1961, was shown to have high anabolic (muscle-building) effects, but it was never approved for use and has not been widely studied since that time. It is possible that Pheromonone 1 and Pheromonone 2, if administered to humans in high enough dosages, might impart a similar, high anabolic effect but this has not been clearly proven or demonstrated in any clinical study to date ever.



    Pheromonone 1 and Pheromonone 2 are clearly be legal to sell as dietary supplements in the United States because of the information demonstrated in this brief. Both compounds are clearly naturally occurring and found in food stuffs (elephants). Neither has ever been characterized as an anabolic steroid or controlled substance by any Federal or State agency to date. Neither compound is chemically related to testosterone and neither compound has been proven to be anabolic in humans to date.



    Pheromonone 1 and Pheromonone 2 have been demonstrated to cause or induce certain behavioral patterns in Asian bull elephants. It is also possible that these compounds might impart the same effect(s) in humans but this has yet to be proven. It is also possible that many people might find these potential effects to be desirable and positive.

    ______________________________ _____________

    Interesting article. I have not given it much thought, other than I am perplexed as to whether this is simply a re-formulation of Novedex XT or some new product. Will do the research on it later. Comments? Now that I think about it... this may not even reference a new product, but may actually just be discussing Novedex XT.... beats me....




  2. Board Supporter
    rhinochaser48's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    310
    Answers
    0


    Isn't this what Sledge was going to release as Phera-Plex?

    I think it is.
  3. Registered User
    size's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Age
    42
    Posts
    4,233
    Answers
    0


    This is new product, not a reformulation.
    •   
       

  4. Registered User
    BryanM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Age
    31
    Posts
    866
    Answers
    0


    ergomax phera plex and this are all the same me thinks


    i believe ALRI has the patent on it though???
  5. Registered User
    jmh80's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Age
    34
    Posts
    8,116
    Answers
    0


    Is this not Phera-plex Size? It is a 2-ene.
  6. Registered User
    buffb2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    117
    Answers
    0


    Is this his new product Revolt. His web site dont say much but prohormone alternative.
  7. Board Supporter
    Dr. Death's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Age
    42
    Posts
    180
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by buffb2
    Is this his new product Revolt. His web site dont say much but prohormone alternative.
    Looks like a non methylated pherplex or ergomax. You prob need to take alot of it to get the effect.
  8. Registered User
    Zero Tolerance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,328
    Answers
    0


    It says nothing about dosage.. How could that be?
  9. Registered User
    SilentScream27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Age
    33
    Posts
    178
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Death
    Looks like a non methylated pherplex or ergomax. You prob need to take alot of it to get the effect.
    This is Ergomax - methyl group + some other group (eludes me at the moment and I'm headed to bed)

    Without the "other group", the product has ZERO bioavailability. We would have to assume that this non-methylated version has had something added to it to increase BV.
  10. Registered User
    Zero Tolerance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,328
    Answers
    0


    So this might be my second chance to try "Ergomax" without methylation (is that a sniglet?)? While one might need to take more, one could expect similar effects?
  11. Registered User
    LCSULLA's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  197 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,760
    Answers
    0


    I just read up on this over at BB.com and both PA and Sledge said it was inactive unless methylated.
  12. Registered User
    Jeff's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Age
    44
    Posts
    641
    Answers
    0


    Wonder if you could take the powder out of the caps, mix it seperate it from the binder using your favorate recipe, then make a suspension or dermal out of it?
  13. Registered User
    SilentScream27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Age
    33
    Posts
    178
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by LCSULLA
    I just read up on this over at BB.com and both PA and Sledge said it was inactive unless methylated.
    Well to be perfectly fair to Bruce... they said the base (nothing added) is COMPLETELY inactive, but whatever Bruce did to it has no book value. However, there is absolutely no reason to think it should aid oral bioavailability at this time (until Bruce provides some kind of rationale)
  14. Board Supporter
    Dr. Death's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Age
    42
    Posts
    180
    Answers
    0


    They said they added a thp ester. I still dont think it would do much.
  15. Banned
    400runner's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Age
    33
    Posts
    627
    Answers
    0


    why dont they just bring back ergo in a dif. name?
    its not scheduled yet? correct me if im wrong.
  16. Registered User
    Zero Tolerance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,328
    Answers
    0


    Right. It's not scheduled.. What is the active compound? I'll go searching online looking for someone in China to deliver it here. It's not illegal to order, right?
  17. Banned
    Changing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Age
    34
    Posts
    171
    Answers
    0


    Hey zero if you find a source let me know ill buy (if it's not illegal)
  18. Registered User
    SilentScream27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Age
    33
    Posts
    178
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by 400runner
    why dont they just bring back ergo in a dif. name?
    its not scheduled yet? correct me if im wrong.
    Because it's TMG, which is the 2nd BALCO designer steroid. Not that this actually is a big deal in the real world of bodybuilding, but the clowns and asshats in the media don't know anything else, and the entire operation, DSHEA and all, could come crashing down if a BALCO-like media storm occurs when/if a company is caught selling this. Luckily, ALRI did the wise thing and pulled it.
  19. Registered User
    Cosmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    215
    Answers
    0


    its not TMG... it was 'supposedly' DMT (desoxymethyltestosterone) though...
  20. Registered User
    SilentScream27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Age
    33
    Posts
    178
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmo
    its not TMG... it was 'supposedly' DMT (desoxymethyltestosterone) though...
    true. acronyms suck
  21. Registered User
    coofoostu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Age
    30
    Posts
    75
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by Pax
    This was sent to me via email from a friend who owns a nutrition store:
    Pheromonone 1 and Pheromonone 2 have been demonstrated to cause or induce certain behavioral patterns in Asian bull elephants. It is also possible that these compounds might impart the same effect(s) in humans but this has yet to be proven. It is also possible that many people might find these potential effects to be desirable and positive.




    lol wtf does this mean? am I going to become attracted to female Asian bull elephants?
  22. Registered User
    SilentScream27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Age
    33
    Posts
    178
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by coofoostu
    lol wtf does this mean? am I going to become attracted to female Asian bull elephants?
    Androgens, Progestins, Estrogens, and Pheromones are all hormones. Pheromones just haven't been looked at as activators of the AR by most people, until now (because of legal reasons).

    By all accounts, this elephant pheromone (methylated) DMT/Ergomax LMG was an AWESOME steroid.

    The base (un-methylated) is useless.
  23. Registered User
    coofoostu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Age
    30
    Posts
    75
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by SilentScream27
    Androgens, Progestins, Estrogens, and Pheromones are all hormones. Pheromones just haven't been looked at as activators of the AR by most people, until now (because of legal reasons).

    By all accounts, this elephant pheromone (methylated) DMT/Ergomax LMG was an AWESOME steroid.

    The base (un-methylated) is useless.
    But it says nothing about muscle growth, body comp improvement, etc. It just says "behavorial patterns."
  24. Registered User
    3v1l's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  168 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Age
    30
    Posts
    105
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by coofoostu
    But it says nothing about muscle growth, body comp improvement, etc. It just says "behavorial patterns."
    I'm assuming he didn't put "adds tons of lean mass" since this might attract the wrong attention?
  25. Registered User
    coofoostu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Age
    30
    Posts
    75
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by 3v1l
    I'm assuming he didn't put "adds tons of lean mass" since this might attract the wrong attention?
    Yeah you're probably right. But I would have thought he would at least said something like "could prossibly promote muscle growth".
  26. Registered User
    LCSULLA's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  197 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,760
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by coofoostu
    Yeah you're probably right. But I would have thought he would at least said something like "could prossibly promote muscle growth".
    I think BK is trying to keep it on the "DL", if you know what I mean.
    I also think everyone will agree with me that if Phera-Plex and Ergomax LMG stayed in the market it would have been a great supp, but I see ALRI's reasoning for pulling it.
  27. Registered User
    cpa5oh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Age
    39
    Posts
    285
    Answers
    0


    I thought it was stated repeatedly by ALR that Ergomax was not DMT.

    And I think everyone should wait for the results from this product to come in before throwing it in the trash already. I'll definitely try it.
  28. Registered User
    LCSULLA's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  197 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,760
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by cpa5oh
    I thought it was stated repeatedly by ALR that Ergomax was not DMT.

    And I think everyone should wait for the results from this product to come in before throwing it in the trash already. I'll definitely try it.
    If they bring it back. And I for one hope that they do. Hint Hint ALRI
  29. Registered User
    cpa5oh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Age
    39
    Posts
    285
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by LCSULLA
    If they bring it back. And I for one hope that they do. Hint Hint ALRI
    I was talking about Promadol...but yeah...if they brought back Ergomax I'd "try" about ten bottles myself.
  30. Registered User
    Zero Tolerance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,328
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by cpa5oh
    I was talking about Promadol...but yeah...if they brought back Ergomax I'd "try" about ten bottles myself.
    Ditto
  31. Registered User
    BryanM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Age
    31
    Posts
    866
    Answers
    0




    check out the ALRI section
  32. Registered User
    SilentScream27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Age
    33
    Posts
    178
    Answers
    0


    I'm a little confused. Is this the exact same thing as ergomax, but being kept "hush hush" this time as to not draw attention?

    I will delete this post if someone replies and says this is so.
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. New ForeRunner Labs Product and Reformulations
    By Royd The Noyd in forum Company Promotions
    Replies: 56
    Last Post: 06-11-2014, 09:28 PM
  2. check out VPX new igf-1 product
    By snakebyte05 in forum IGF-1/GH
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-31-2004, 09:23 PM
  3. New Deca/Sust Real Or Fake?
    By John Armstrong in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-24-2004, 03:56 PM
  4. new aussie vet products in mexico
    By rhatid in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-25-2003, 02:27 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in