red yeast rice
- 05-30-2005, 11:15 AM
- 05-30-2005, 11:40 AM
05-30-2005, 12:49 PM
RYR mostly helps lipids by reducing LDL, it is unlikely to affect (raise) your HDL much. The ultimate dose will depend upon the particular extract, many of them are standardized to a particular concentration of mevilonins (the HMGA-COA reductase inhibitory agents found in RYR, they are statins). As with any statin containing drug, RYR can deplete COQ10. Statins also, although very rarely and probably more typical of stronger statins at higher doses, cause liver enzymes to elevate and also are known to cause myopathy. Again, the data for lovastain (mevacor, the primary statin in RYR) indicates a very, very low incidence of these effects but one should always keep this in mind when taking them in case you are the one in a million with a problem. Also, do not take grape fruit or grapefruit juice, or any other drug (such as ketoconazole) which can inhibit CYP-3A4, as this can cause plasma levels of the mevilonins to go through the roof, with a much increased risk of side effects.Originally Posted by jverch
Given the shock that your liver and lipids are going to experience with the SD, my guess is you won't notice much positive from the RYR by itself, but it will give you a better base coming in the cycle as well as coming out so it probably will be beneficial as part of a comprehensive plan to protect your lipids while taking any methylated steroid.
05-30-2005, 02:00 PM
05-30-2005, 02:25 PM
Chucky i planned on taking asr dhb it says it inhibits CYP
also planned to take ryr for a 3-4 week superdrol cycle. you said
this can cause plasma levels of the mevilonins? to go through
the roof, with a much increased risk of side effects. What
side effects would this increase. thanks for the help.
05-30-2005, 06:22 PM
Check out the link below, and keep in mind that Lovastatin is the USAN (generic) name for mevacor which is considered the main active statin in RYR. As you read down until you see the graphical representation of drug-lovastatin interaction, the blood plasma level of lovastatin (again, mevacor) can get up to 20 times its non-interacted levels. Mevacor at low doses (10-20 mg) has shown itself to be pretty damn safe, but if it is present at 20 times its low dose concentration level, the incidences of myopathy (muscle wasting) are likely to approach very unacceptable rates. Read the whole link I included, it is quite informative and I think would answer your questions very well. As far as the ASR dhb, it is likely a strong CYP-3A4 inhibitor and thus, I would think, a definite no-no with any statin. Also, I am not sure what dose of SD you plan on taking....I personally would caution against making the asr dhb/SD combination in any event....SD is 17-alpha methylated and thus resistant to hepatic breakdown, by inhibiting your drug-metabolizing enzymes in the liver, there really is no predicting how high the SD levels will get, and where SD is already a fairly risky proposition in terms of liver/lipid effects; the combination has the potential to exponentially increase your risk. But of course, thats JMHO and I do wish you the best of luck!Originally Posted by eshamed51
05-30-2005, 06:36 PM
Twin. Loki, Sledge, ALR......can somobody translate this into "brotelligence"??? (just kidding, Strat! )Originally Posted by chuckymiller
05-30-2005, 06:46 PM
Tha amount of lovastatin in RYR is ~ 5mgs per 2 grams, the studies and suggested amount scripted is 40-50mgs.
05-30-2005, 06:53 PM
Ok, so I thought that taking your methyl's with grapefruit juice was a good thing (for absorption).
So, why not take RYR or Celery seed prior to the methyl cycle and after the methyl cycle and grapefruit while takinge the methyl?
05-30-2005, 06:55 PM
The amount of lovastatin in RYR varies depending on the RYR....I have seen it as high as 1.5%, it all depends on what it is standardized to. If it is 0.4% which is a "typical" low strength, then the amount of lovastatin in 2X1200 mg doses is about 10 mg or so. Taken together with an inhibitor of CYP-3A4, it can exceed concentrations of 20 times higher, so it would be more equivalent to 10 X 20 = 200 mg. This way exceeds any typical dose for lovastatin. Add to this the fact that you would be taking other moieties which could further compete for CYP-3A4 (like SD?) and I don't know where you end up....
05-30-2005, 07:11 PM
Chucky i already bought the dhb so what do you think
of weeks 1-2 10mg with the dhb then weeks 3-4 20mg if
i need it but still only 1 dhb and will stop the dhb a few days before
pct. Also have pro liver and NOW garlic and Hawthorne Berry and will
buy NOW Cholesterol Support if thats ok for the cycle?. Then when
I start pct start ryr and keep taking the chol. support.
Thanks for your help.
05-30-2005, 07:35 PM
Eshamed, many have reported significant anabolic effects of SD by itself at low doses. I think as a general rule, unless you have convincing experience otherwise, would be to start off at the lowest dose SD (10mg) without the dhb. If it is the case that you have a strong rationale for needing more SD on board, then you could even take a higher dose. The problem, in my mind, with adding dhb into the mix is that you simply cannot predict how this will effect your exposure to SD. Since SD is already a risky proposition (as are most if not all 17-methyl steroids), I would be very cautious about introducing another unknown variable into the mix, particularly one that has the potential to multiply any complications. Also, if you really want to get a better idea how SD is personally affecting your physiology, you would be best to have baseline and end of cycle bloodwork completed, paying special attention to liver enzymes and lipids. I imagine that proliver and garlic would not be bad, but I would liken them to whistling past a graveyard, it might make you feel better but truth be told, your enzymes and lipids are still likely to get way skewed and the primary purpose of the bloodwork is so that you will better understand your own personal response to the SD. Since some people get hit way harder than others (although I do believe everybody gets hit!), it is best to know which end of the spectrum you lie on...you might want that information for future reference. Hey, best of luck to you!Originally Posted by eshamed51
05-30-2005, 08:42 PM
i have heard that there are other chems in ryr that lower chol and raise hdl. lovastatin is just one of them. anecdotal evidence (many users on this board) points clearly that ryr lowers chol on cycle. as for me, my total chol can reach 275 on cycle. w/ ryr 2.4g eod, my chol was 190 and hdl was close to normal-not in single digits like it usually is.
05-30-2005, 09:05 PM
Just to be clear, I don't think RYR is a bad idea on cycle, I just wish to caution against using a statin (or statin containing substance) together with substances that inhibit CYP-3A4. As as for your results, S.Norman, its hard to argue with success! I would say it is possible that there are other substances in RYR that lower cholesterol, but I don't see much evidence for RYR by itself raising HDL. One thing about statins that has always piqued my interest is their ability to lower c-reactive protein (CRP), a marker of inflammation. This marker is probably more predictive of heart attacks then LDL, and statins, I believe, show an across the board ability to decrease its levels. Of course correlation is not causation and thus decreasing one may not affect the other, but it certainly is interesting nevertheless!Originally Posted by s.norman
As for RYR and HDL, I did a quick search on MEDLINE with RYR and HDL and found this:
Cholesterol-lowering effects of a proprietary Chinese red-yeast-rice dietary supplement.
Heber D, Yip I, Ashley JM, Elashoff DA, Elashoff RM, Go VL.
Center for Human Nutrition, Department of Medicine, UCLA School of Medicine, Los Angeles, CA 90095-1742, USA. [email protected]
BACKGROUND: We examined the cholesterol-lowering effects of a proprietary Chinese red-yeast-rice supplement in an American population consuming a diet similar to the American Heart Association Step I diet using a double-blind, placebo-controlled, prospectively randomized 12-wk controlled trial at a university research center. OBJECTIVE: We evaluated the lipid-lowering effects of this red-yeast-rice dietary supplement in US adults separate from effects of diet alone. DESIGN: Eighty-three healthy subjects (46 men and 37 women aged 34-78 y) with hyperlipidemia [total cholesterol, 5.28-8.74 mmol/L (204-338 mg/dL); LDL cholesterol, 3.31-7.16 mmol/L (128-277 mg/dL); triacylglycerol, 0.62-2.78 mmol/L (55-246 mg/dL); and HDL cholesterol 0.78-2.46 mmol/L (30-95 mg/dL)] who were not being treated with lipid-lowering drugs participated. Subjects were treated with red yeast rice (2.4 g/d) or placebo and instructed to consume a diet providing 30% of energy from fat, <10% from saturated fat, and <300 mg cholesterol daily. Main outcome measures were total cholesterol, total triacylglycerol, and HDL and LDL cholesterol measured at weeks 8, 9, 11, and 12. RESULTS: Total cholesterol concentrations decreased significantly between baseline and 8 wk in the red-yeast-rice-treated group compared with the placebo-treated group [(x+/-SD) 6.57+/-0.93 mmol/L (254+/-36 mg/dL) to 5.38+/-0.80 mmol/L (208+/-31 mg/dL); P < 0.001]. LDL cholesterol and total triacylglycerol were also reduced with the supplement. HDL cholesterol did not change significantly. CONCLUSIONS: Red yeast rice significantly reduces total cholesterol, LDL cholesterol, and total triacylglycerol concentrations compared with placebo and provides a new, novel, food-based approach to lowering cholesterol in the general population.
Effects of xuezhikang, an extract of cholestin, on lipid profile and C-reactive protein: a short-term time course study in patients with stable angina.
Li JJ, Hu SS, Fang CH, Hui RT, Miao LF, Yang YJ, Gao RL.
Department of Cardiology, Fu Wai Hospital, Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences, Peking Union Medical College, Beijing 100037, PR China. [email protected]
BACKGROUND: Reduction of cholesterol and inflammation can be achieved by administration of a statin. Xuezhikang, an extract of cholestin, available from Chinese red yeast rice, could effectively modify the lipid profile. However, limited information is available regarding rapid effects of Xuezhikang on plasma C-reactive protein (CRP) and the lipid profile in patients with stable angina. We evaluated the short-term time course effects of lipid profile and CRP by Xuezhikang in patients with stable angina. METHODS: Forty-eight consecutive patients with stable angina were randomly assigned to 1200 or 2400 mg/day of Xuezhikang. Blood samples were drawn at days 0, 1, 7 and 14 for lipid profile and CRP levels in all patients, and hepatic enzymes were also evaluated at days 0 and 14. RESULTS: Both doses of Xuezhikang induced significant reductions in median CRP levels and in mean CRP levels at day 1 (13.0% with 1200 and 16.6% with 2400 mg/day; 14.7% with 1200 and 18.4% with 2400 mg/day), and at day 7 (18.3% with 1200 and 20.2% with 2400 mg/day; 18.5% with 1200 and 22.6% with 2400 mg/day) as well as at day 14 (28.6% with 1200 and 30.4% with 2400 mg/day; 21.7% with 1200 and 24.8% with 2400 mg/day) compared with baseline without a dose-dependent effect but a time-dependent manner. In addition, no changes were found at days 1 and 7 regarding lipid profile. However, both doses of Xuezhikang induced significant reductions in total cholesterol (TC, 13% and 22%), and low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol (23% and 32%) compared with baseline at day 14. The higher dose of Xuezhikang (2400 mg/day) resulted in significantly greater reductions in TC and LDL cholesterol compared with 1200 mg/day group (p<0.05, p<0.01, respectively). A less significant reduction was observed in triglycerides (TG) level (13% and 23%) compared with TC and LDL cholesterol. There was no significant difference in mean high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol levels compared with baseline in both groups. CONCLUSIONS: Xuezhikang resulted in rapid reduction of CRP within 24 h and lipid profile within 2 weeks, which may be clinically important for patients with coronary artery disease.
05-31-2005, 04:22 PM
is there any long term effects from an elevated cholesterol if u eat healthy and it returns to normal post-cycle, any long term damage i.e. hypertrophy of heart or arthersclerosis. i am currently in my 2nd cycle of sd and am still debating on 3 on 2 off 3 on, cuz i know it really messes up ur lipids. i'm 22 and no prob wit my chol pre-sd so i was wondering if i could afford messing up my lipids for the six weeks and then just be careful after that and get them back to normal, would there be any long term damage. i'm taking fish oils, policosanol and soon ryr with coq10.
05-31-2005, 04:41 PM
I'll add a quick second to the "RYR Worked For Me" group.Originally Posted by s.norman
Week 4 of M1T without RYR HDL=7, LDL=181 (201 total)
Week 6 of M1T with 2400mg RYR HDL=44, LDL=118 (172 total)
I can add more detail if anyone has specific questions.
Bottom line for me was that it worked, to a significant degree.
Edit: Week 4 and Week 6 are different cycles, 4 months apart. RYR was started 4 weeks before the second cycle.
05-31-2005, 07:29 PM
Damn, that is pretty impressive. You said 1200 mg RYR, was it an extract, and if so what was it standardized to?Originally Posted by pcn
06-01-2005, 10:23 AM
Whoops! I had my dosage wrong above, I should have added 2x daily, so it was 2400mg/day. I take the NOW brand and they describe it on the link below as:Originally Posted by chuckymiller
Red Yeast Rice (Monascus purpureus) (Concentrated (10:1) Powder)
Ill take a look at the bottle tonight for a better description. I get it from Bulk Nutrition:
I also took CoQ10 50mg (2x daily) with it.
06-01-2005, 08:11 PM
06-02-2005, 02:57 AM
06-02-2005, 09:36 AM
I've thougth about trying alicin (sp?) the active ingredient in garlic, I believe. But, since "Hooked on Phonics/RYR worked for me!" and my latest results were so good, I probably will stick with just the RYR/CoQ10. What brand policosanol did you get? I thought I had searched that site and couldnt find it. Thanks.
06-02-2005, 06:33 PM
I got 3 blisters of Allimax for my next SD cycle to use in place of RYR. I'll probably have bloodtests again.Originally Posted by pcn
What i heard about policosanol is that is effective, but that must be taken all year round, not like a quick fix, unline RYR.
06-02-2005, 10:09 PM
RYR will reduce CRP within the first day but lipid lowering effects weren't seen until the 14th day. Poli on the other hand appears to take about a month to "kick in" but it also improves HDL whereas results with RYR are mixed with regards to HDL. Niacin and a slew of other supps reduce lipid levels as well. Niacin seems to take some time, several months I believe for full effects to be realized, which would make it ideal to run year round.Originally Posted by Syr
06-02-2005, 11:05 PM
is there any truth to the idea that niacin and RRY should NOT be used together???Originally Posted by ersatz
06-03-2005, 09:15 PM
No, I don't think there would be any extra special cause for concern since niacin and statins are routinely combined for people who need to lower LDL, and raise HDL (and lower triglycerides) at the same time. In this regard, the combination would be predicted to be very complementary. In fact, Advicor (sic?) is a prescription combination of niaspan and lovastatin. Both do have some baggage, for example, Niacin can adversely affect the liver (like everything else, it seems) but instant release, niapan or inositol hexniaciniate do not appear to be too bad in this regard, it appears some of the older sustained release formulations were especially problematic. I think there have also been some reports of rhabdomyolysis in people taking statins with niacin, but since statins themselves can cause this, it is not clear if the combination is any worse. One would think that reasonable doses of RYR (which contains plustever else in there) together with niacin (but not old-controlled release) would provide very significant cardo-benefit...but of course, thats JMHO! I'e been looking into getting some niacin to go with my RYR....Originally Posted by milwood
06-03-2005, 10:50 PM
I would use inositol hexaniacinate over niacin only because it doesn't cause flushing. There are a number of studies where people use statins and 3-5g of niacin without too many adverse reactions. Niacin can impair glucose tolerance at high those doses though. Ino hex can be taken at 1500mg/day without the flushing, glucode tolerance issues and other negatives associated with high doses of niacin.
06-04-2005, 06:08 AM
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