How to best address my Androgen Induced Hypogonadism?

[Justlooking5]

Hello all,

I'm a 34 y/o male who has been bodybuilding since age 17. From age 19 to 24 I did several cycles of gear for periods of 8-16 weeks, usually with relatively moderate dosages. (i.e., 500-850mg test enanthate, or sust/deca/dbol). Most of the time I was not on any gear.

After my last cycle in 2006 at age 24 (850mg test enanthate, turinabol, dbol), I used an OTC supplement PCT instead of clomid/arimidex and crashed, with serious estrogen rebound, depression, and overall poor functioning.

In 2011 I finally went in to the doctor for a testosterone test. My levels came back at 390 ng/dl (borderline low). I asked for an alternative to TRT and my urologist offered me clomid. Clomid took my levels up to 1080 ng/dl, but they eventually came back down each time after repeated courses, and my levels were last measured at about 390 ng/dl again in 2012. I am assuming I have secondary hypogonadism (functional balls but inadequate LH).

I was preoccupied with other things for awhile, but I have been having similar problems (erectile issues, fatigue, depression, irritability), and got another testosterone test this past week. It came back at 369 ng/dl, so even lower than in the past.

I was surprised by the result as I've been doing a lot to try to boost my levels, including Tocotrienols, Vit. D, ZMA, Probiotics, 8 hours sleep, adequate fat intake, etc. I also am 6' 210 lbs. and about 12% bodyfat, so pretty muscular despite low testosterone (taking creatine, bcaas, whey, etc.).

I go in to see my PCP (first time meeting her) to discuss my testosterone results this week.

I am trying to find the best way to address this obvious sustained health issue of low testosterone. I know the first line treatment is TRT, however, I would like to consider this a last option, as I am only 34, and do not necessarily want to be on TRT for the rest of my life. Though I will take TRT if it is the only/best option after other things fail.

Currently, here is my plan I am going to discuss with my PCP. I am interested in any suggestions:


1. Try to initially manage low T with OTC supplements, specifically Longjack 100:1. I just started taking this and do feel a bit better so far. Get blood test to monitor results (will also provide interesting feedback on LJ100:1 effectiveness as I'll have before/after bloodwork). At one point in 2011 in between clomid treatment my test measured at 600 when I was taking an herbal (I think stinging nettle?)

2. Ask my PCP to refer me to a specialist (urologist/endo etc.), or I will find one and pay out of pocket if necessary, who will try hCG/Clomid treatment, which has been shown in some studies permanently improve steroid induced hypogonadism (only when hCG was used, not just clomid).

3. If all else fails, start TRT.

Any thoughts? Is LJ100 still thought to be the most effective herbal T booster?
(I'm not really interested in messing with my endocrine system by taking T booster supp blends with stuff I'm unfamiliar with).

So far I've also tried boron (some results but joint/mood issues), KSM-66 (maybe some improvement).

Any tips on finding a doc who would be willing to prescribe hCG/clomid course? Any other suggestions on the supplement front or thoughts in general on managing steroid induced hypogonadism? Thanks for any help!

 

[BodyOfWotan]

I`ve been jacking up my natural T for years prior to gear.
from 16 -19 I was always in a range of 850-1300 mg/dl natty.

My plan in simple terms:

1. No hard dieting, surplus and deficit always in 5-10 % of total cals max

2. Cold showers (can`t stress this enough, they give you superhuman willpower as a side benefit)

3. Don`t jack off - A lot of guys gonna oppose this and point to studies saying that T only increases after 6 days of NoFap and then declines to normal again. It`s not about the T level itself, not masturbating lowers your Prolactin levels and Estrogen decrease while simultaneously Androgen receptors are upregulated. Dopamine receptors are also upregulated and Masturbation is well recorded to cause Prolactin spikes up to 2 weeks after masturbation and increases Aromatization. Bonus: Bigger Balls (Literally and figuratively) This can vastly improve mood as well.

4. No simple sugars. - Not gonna elaborate, should be general knowledge.

5. Also avoid excess fructose. If you eat any fruits, limit your intake, best source of fructose remains honey.

6. Intermittent Fasting - eat 1/2 meals a day.

7. Drink water evenly distributed throughout the day.

8. Don`t fry your Dopamine receptors, avoid binge-watching, drinking, porn, smoking, caffeine (if your dependant on it) i.e.w. quit your addictions

9. Manage stress ( cortisol kills your T) - find a way, walking, meditation etc.

10. Ditch the unnecessary supps. Vit D3 , magnesium, creatine, B vitamins, zinc ( with copper!!) are very good choices. Make sure you`re not overdosing on any supps (esp. Zinc)
Ditch any natty T boosters, most simply increase your Free T by inhibiting 5-AR ( the enzyme for conversion of T to DHT) or are a rip off. E.g. The studies for stinging nettle are dubious to say the least.

11. Increase your 5-AR and DHT naturally. DHT is the strongest natural Androgen and has very positive effects on mental health, confidence and libido.
I personally would go as far as to say that the mental benefits of T are 98% due to conversion to DHT.

12. Avoid soy and phytoestrogens ( e.g. Beer, liquorice)

13. Don`t try to implement to many things at once. Go slow and phase it in. See how your body reacts to different supps. Don`t just rely on studies. Studies can point you in the right direction, but they can`t predict your body`s response.

14. (optional but recommended) Meet/ pick up and F*** some/more girls.

 

[jesus_sanchez]

For me, and I NEVER used gear as a nationally ranked athlete, eventually nothing would get my test up past 275. But I kept my conditioning at even that low test, so now my body only needs a little TRT to normalize my hormones. Thats good news because lower doses means lower sides.

 

[Bunshichi]

Ever thought about long term low dose chlomid?

Inform yourself about Triptorelin. Not sure if its suitable to try it in your situation however.

As you said, HCG/Chlomid may be worth a try.

Natural test boosters probably won't take you back to normal levels long term.

If long term Chlomid is not an option try to determine with blood work if Exemestane works good enough for you, may be an option.

 

[jesus_sanchez]

Clomid makes me so moody, I even cry in my dreams.

 

[Bunshichi]

Maybe a lower dose is still effective, yet doesn't give you the sides?

 

[Justlooking5]

Thanks for the ideas all. I have been considering low dose clomid.

I will be meeting with an MD next week who has a hormone replacement therapy practice. I talked to her assistant who said that for my age (34 y/o), levels of 369 ng/dl is "very low" and they have someone receiving treatment who was age 32 with levels in the 400s.

This particular clinic treats with pellets, which I'll have to research further.

It seems like it may be hard to find a physician who will try HCG and clomid without TRT.

Any thoughts/experiences with TRT? Those who have tried it, how is your health?

 

[Bunshichi]

I haven't tried test, but TRT got some nice advantages. Blast longer without worrying about PCT. HCG is not necessary or only for cosmetic ball size. Don't lose your gains.

If it is dosed right and blood levels are stable there are no bad health concerns.

Well on the downside however chances are that soon you will absolutely need injections your whole lifetime.

 

[Nac]

John Crisler prescribes clomid/hcg as an hrt option. Unlike Scally, his approach is less shock-and-awe and more low and lengthy (dosing) He's always taking on new patients, but no idea what he charges.