WTF? My liver values are still high 4 months out PLZ help!

  1. Senior Member
    UNDERTAKER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Age
    36
    Posts
    1,162
    Rep Power
    702
    Level
    27
    Lv. Percent
    81.56%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    WTF? My liver values are still high 4 months out PLZ help!


    Here is the situation. I finished this stack right around the ph ban, say Feb 1st
    Weeks 1-4
    M14add ramping up to 280mg ed
    Weeks 5-8
    Superdrol
    ramping up to 30mg ed

    I got my liver values checked the day after finishing the cycle, no suprise they were evelated slightly. The value was 1.5. Well I got it checked last week and its still 1.5. I ran 1 gram a day of milk thistle immeadiately after the cycle for one month. Now my Dr. wants me to get an ultrasound of my liver. She suggested that I dont drink alcohol (havent touch the stuff in over 7 years) and increase my water intake which I have. i know this doesnt related to aas direclty, but the guys that post on the aas forum seem to have the most knowledge, and since my bp and protein levels are high as well, I am really starting to worry. What is going on with me? I am wondering if this has anything to do with consuming a lot of whey which i do.

  2. Board Moderator
    Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    49
    Posts
    11,713
    Rep Power
    986900

    If you have no baseline how do you know they are elevated.

    What is "1.5"?
  3. Senior Member
    UNDERTAKER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Age
    36
    Posts
    1,162
    Rep Power
    702
    Level
    27
    Lv. Percent
    81.56%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    She showed me a range of liver values, normal was like 0.5(or something, I forget) to 1.4. I don't know what the numbers actually stands for. Very true, I have no baseline, I am just going by what she said.
    •   
       

  4. Senior Member
    lifted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Age
    33
    Posts
    2,719
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    41
    Lv. Percent
    65.82%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Dude, you ran 8 WEEKS of methylated AAS....what did you expect?? Not trying to be an ass, but c'mon. Also as I told you before, 280mg of 1, 4 diol is WAY too much...

    You ended the cycle on Feb. 1st. Remember, time on = time off. But that isn't written in stone. Some may just take longer for their bodies to get back to normal. Keep taking NAC/milk thistle and get another test run eventually. I think you'll be okay...just do like your doc said and don't drink, and try to stay away from NSAIDS AMAP...
  5. Board Supporter
    ke0ki's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    226
    Rep Power
    253
    Level
    13
    Lv. Percent
    26.64%

    Holy **** 280mg of m14add?? At my highest point I used 50mg and thought that was a bit much.
  6. Board Moderator
    Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    49
    Posts
    11,713
    Rep Power
    986900

    Major Liver Function:
    · Alkaline Phosphate (normal range: 25 – 150 umol/L)
    · GGT (normal range: 0 – 65 IU/L)
    · SGOT (AST) (normal range: 0 – 40 IU/L)
    · SGPT (ALT) (normal range: 0 – 40 IU/L)

    Major Kidney Function:
    · Creatinine (normal range: 0.5 – 1.5 mg/dl)
    · BUN (normal range: 5 – 26 mg/dl)
    · Creatinine/BUN ratio (normal range: 8 – 27)


    This may very well be what you are referring to. If it indeed is, high creatinine levels are not uncommon with high(er) protein diets, diets high in meat, or the use of creatine. It is also a byproduct of muscle/skeletal contraction and increased levels of muscle mass.

    Creatinine: Creatinine is a byproduct of creatine phosphate, the chemical used in contraction of skeletal muscle. The more muscle mass you have, the higher the creatine levels and therefore the higher the levels of creatinine. Also, when you ingest large amounts of beef or other meats that have high levels of creatine in them, you can increase creatinine levels as well. Since creatinine levels are used to measure the functioning of the kidneys, this easily explains why creatine has been accused of causing kidney damage, since it naturally results in an increase in creatinine levels. However, we need to remember that these tests are only indicators of functioning and thus outside drugs and supplements can influence them and give false results, as creatine may do. This is why creatine, while increasing creatinine levels, does not cause renal damage or impair function. Generally speaking, though, increased levels are indicative of urinary tract obstruction, acute tubular necrosis, reduced renal blood flow (stemming from shock, dehydration, congestive heart failure, atherosclerosis), as well as acromegaly. Decreased levels can be indicative of debilitation, and decreased muscle mass via disease or some other cause.
  7. CDB
    Registered User
    CDB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Age
    38
    Posts
    4,543
    Rep Power
    2675
    Level
    47
    Lv. Percent
    20.16%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    With no baseline measurement there's really no way to judge whether this is high. It's slightly out of the normal range, but your values may have been higher to begin with. And as the other poster said, 8 weeks of methyls is pushing the limits of safety. Follow your doctor's advice, stay calm and don't take anything that will stress your liver right now. Try some liver helpers other than the milk thistle perhaps.
  8. New Member
    BigSwede's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Age
    48
    Posts
    129
    Rep Power
    180
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    67.82%

    5150 is spot-on... run some R-ALA at 400mg ed as well. 280mg of M14ADD?! Jesus
  9. Senior Member
    UNDERTAKER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Age
    36
    Posts
    1,162
    Rep Power
    702
    Level
    27
    Lv. Percent
    81.56%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by lifted
    Dude, you ran 8 WEEKS of methylated AAS....what did you expect?? Not trying to be an ass, but c'mon. Also as I told you before, 280mg of 1, 4 diol is WAY too much...

    You ended the cycle on Feb. 1st. Remember, time on = time off. But that isn't written in stone. Some may just take longer for their bodies to get back to normal. Keep taking NAC/milk thistle and get another test run eventually. I think you'll be okay...just do like your doc said and don't drink, and try to stay away from ...
    m14add is converted to dbol at a rate of 15%. In perspective, this is around 40mg of dbol ed, which isnt that bad. I know the cycle was pushing it though. The high quantity of m14add was based on a suggestion to take high dosages via lean one. I did the cycle when Superdrol was though to be a little safer then it turned out to be. What the hell are NSAIDS and AMAP?

    I am pretty sure you guys are right and it is the creatine levels. I havent taken any Creatine product in about 2 months
  10. Senior Member
    lifted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Age
    33
    Posts
    2,719
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    41
    Lv. Percent
    65.82%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by ke0ki
    Holy **** 280mg of m14add?? At my highest point I used 50mg and thought that was a bit much.
    Agreed....40-50mg ED was better for me than 50mg straight dbol....plus fewer sides.
  11. Senior Member
    UNDERTAKER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Age
    36
    Posts
    1,162
    Rep Power
    702
    Level
    27
    Lv. Percent
    81.56%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    just to let you guys know, at 280mg I still got nothing, I am nonresponder.
  12. Senior Member
    lifted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Age
    33
    Posts
    2,719
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    41
    Lv. Percent
    65.82%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by UNDERTAKER
    m14add is converted to dbol at a rate of 15%. In perspective, this is around 40mg of dbol ed, which isnt that bad. I know the cycle was pushing it though. The high quantity of m14add was based on a suggestion to take high dosages via lean one. I did the cycle when Superdrol was though to be a little safer then it turned out to be. What the hell are NSAIDS and AMAP?

    I am pretty sure you guys are right and it is the creatine levels. I havent taken any Creatine product in about 2 months
    NSAIDS are pain relievers like motrin, aleve, advil , etc.. AMAP just means as much as possible.
  13. Board Moderator
    Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    49
    Posts
    11,713
    Rep Power
    986900

    Quote Originally Posted by BigSwede
    5150 is spot-on... run some R-ALA at 400mg ed as well. 280mg of M14ADD?! Jesus
    As well are you. I have had stellar liver profiles while 'on' 50mgs of SD with NAC and 600mg ALA 'only' (no milk thistle). I have had equally good liver profiles on M1T with or without milk thistle while using NAC/ALA. I'm begining to believe the anti-o's are what are more/most effective at sustaining/returning liver profiles to healthy ranges. I still use milk thistle post cycle because I have a bunch.
  14. Board Moderator
    Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    49
    Posts
    11,713
    Rep Power
    986900

    Quote Originally Posted by UNDERTAKER
    just to let you guys know, at 280mg I still got nothing, I am nonresponder.
    regardless
  15. Senior Member
    UNDERTAKER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Age
    36
    Posts
    1,162
    Rep Power
    702
    Level
    27
    Lv. Percent
    81.56%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    so 400mg ed for rala, what about the mg ed for NAC?
  16. New Member
    BigSwede's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Age
    48
    Posts
    129
    Rep Power
    180
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    67.82%

    I would go 1g on the NAC
  17. Board Moderator
    Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    49
    Posts
    11,713
    Rep Power
    986900

    I use NAC and ALA 365/yr. I use regular capped ALA and (kilo's/powder) of NAC powder which makes it rather inexpensive. You could go r-ala as well but it is a bit pricier, but of course you use less. I always use 300mg/d ALA and ~.8g/d NAC year round. When I am on a methyl notorious for brutality I with got up to >/=600mg/d ALA and ~1.2-1.6g/d NAC.
  18. New Member
    SwingGuru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Age
    48
    Posts
    46
    Rep Power
    152
    Level
    6
    Lv. Percent
    25.19%

    Quote Originally Posted by UNDERTAKER
    m14add is converted to dbol at a rate of 15%. In perspective, this is around 40mg of dbol ed, which isnt that bad. I know the cycle was pushing it though. The high quantity of m14add was based on a suggestion to take high dosages via lean one. I did the cycle when Superdrol was though to be a little safer then it turned out to be. What the hell are NSAIDS and AMAP?

    I am pretty sure you guys are right and it is the creatine levels. I havent taken any Creatine product in about 2 months
    I don't understand that logic, you still have 280 mg ED of a 17alkylated anabolic. Whether it is a 3one or 3ol doesn't matter from a liver damage standpoint. It may be equiv to 280*15% from a potency standpoint, but from a liver standpoint it was 280 mg ED of methyl. I'd say you liver might be fooked for awhile.
  19. Diamond Member
    T-Bone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    16,127
    Rep Power
    5090411
    Level
    95
    Lv. Percent
    90%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranActivity RoyaltyPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Try taking Liv-52 for a few months. Take 4 a day for 2 months. Also excess protein may be also a contributing factor. The liver has to filter everything everthing you eat, such as poisons, drugs, amino acids, sugar and fat. So too much protein could be a contributing factor, but probally not the main cause. Also it takes any liver supplement at least a month to be effective, you should have run the liver supps 1 month before, during, and at least for a month after the cycle.
  20. CDB
    Registered User
    CDB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Age
    38
    Posts
    4,543
    Rep Power
    2675
    Level
    47
    Lv. Percent
    20.16%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by UNDERTAKER
    m14add is converted to dbol at a rate of 15%. In perspective, this is around 40mg of dbol ed, which isnt that bad. I know the cycle was pushing it though. The high quantity of m14add was based on a suggestion to take high dosages via lean one. I did the cycle when Superdrol was though to be a little safer then it turned out to be. What the hell are NSAIDS and AMAP?

    I am pretty sure you guys are right and it is the creatine levels. I havent taken any Creatine product in about 2 months
    That's approximately how much Dbol you got out of it, your liver still had to process nearly 300mg of methylated hormone a day.
  21. Syr
    Hot Italian Goldmember
    Syr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Age
    37
    Posts
    2,124
    Rep Power
    1191
    Level
    33
    Lv. Percent
    80.47%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    OMG Poor liver! No one used more than 120mg of M1,4 AFAIK and thats not a mild compound for the liver.
    Moreover if u have some elevated creatinine levels, that are your kidneys. Take a B-complex and lots of antioxidants. And yes like your doc said, drink a lot of water.

    Can u post the LIVER enzymes values u got?
  22. Elite Member
    ryansm's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  305 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    8,125
    Rep Power
    22018
    Level
    57
    Lv. Percent
    94.76%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    I remember back when it was still legal it got up to some using 300mgs a day.

    Anyway, creatinine levels are elevated in people who lift weights. If your enzymes are that low then it is good, I have no idea what your doc is talking about. Mine are always high, and have been for a loooong time. I have a doc who understands that I lift weights, so it is not a big deal.

    Just for some info, it took a good 4 months for my enzymes to return to normal after my second m1t cycle, and even longer for my lipids to normalize.

  23. Senior Member
    UNDERTAKER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Age
    36
    Posts
    1,162
    Rep Power
    702
    Level
    27
    Lv. Percent
    81.56%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Ok....I just got some bloodwork back and I have a copy of the results...It looks like everything is within normal range as far as lipids/liver/kidneys except....

    Urea Nitrogen (BUN) 28 H normal range 7-25 mg/dl

    My Dr. wasnt really concerned about this, she said to just drink more water. This is what my Dr. is really concerned about....

    AST 58 H normal range 2-50 U/L


    Three months ago my AST was 83 so it is getting better but my Dr. wants me to get a ultrasound. How bad are these #'s?

    Also my HDL was 32 L but my Dr. said this isnt a big deal.
  24. New Member
    SwingGuru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Age
    48
    Posts
    46
    Rep Power
    152
    Level
    6
    Lv. Percent
    25.19%

    Quote Originally Posted by UNDERTAKER
    Ok....I just got some bloodwork back and I have a copy of the results...It looks like everything is within normal range as far as lipids/liver/kidneys except....

    Urea Nitrogen (BUN) 28 H normal range 7-25 mg/dl

    My Dr. wasnt really concerned about this, she said to just drink more water. This is what my Dr. is really concerned about....

    AST 58 H normal range 2-50 U/L


    Three months ago my AST was 83 so it is getting better but my Dr. wants me to get a ultrasound. How bad are these #'s?

    Also my HDL was 32 L but my Dr. said this isnt a big deal.
    Great news, looks like you've avoided an early date with the reaper after all!
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. What should my workout regime look like 2 months out of a comp?
    By Caferacer in forum Powerlifting/Strongman
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-15-2009, 12:47 PM
  2. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-04-2007, 06:42 PM
  3. Are my liver values a go for another cycle?
    By Dr Liftalot in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 12-10-2006, 07:05 PM
  4. my Dr said my "protein" levels are high
    By UNDERTAKER in forum General Chat
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 05-26-2005, 09:47 PM
  5. wtf, my topical is too thick to pump out
    By MakaveliThaDon in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-24-2003, 03:26 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in