WTF? My liver values are still high 4 months out PLZ help!
- 05-27-2005, 08:40 AM
WTF? My liver values are still high 4 months out PLZ help!
Here is the situation. I finished this stack right around the ph ban, say Feb 1st
M14add ramping up to 280mg ed
ramping up to 30mg ed
I got my liver values checked the day after finishing the cycle, no suprise they were evelated slightly. The value was 1.5. Well I got it checked last week and its still 1.5. I ran 1 gram a day of milk thistle immeadiately after the cycle for one month. Now my Dr. wants me to get an ultrasound of my liver. She suggested that I dont drink alcohol (havent touch the stuff in over 7 years) and increase my water intake which I have. i know this doesnt related to aas direclty, but the guys that post on the aas forum seem to have the most knowledge, and since my bp and protein levels are high as well, I am really starting to worry. What is going on with me? I am wondering if this has anything to do with consuming a lot of whey which i do.
- 05-27-2005, 08:51 AM
If you have no baseline how do you know they are elevated.
What is "1.5"?
- 05-27-2005, 08:58 AM
She showed me a range of liver values, normal was like 0.5(or something, I forget) to 1.4. I don't know what the numbers actually stands for. Very true, I have no baseline, I am just going by what she said.
05-27-2005, 09:11 AM
Dude, you ran 8 WEEKS of methylated AAS....what did you expect?? Not trying to be an ass, but c'mon. Also as I told you before, 280mg of 1, 4 diol is WAY too much...
You ended the cycle on Feb. 1st. Remember, time on = time off. But that isn't written in stone. Some may just take longer for their bodies to get back to normal. Keep taking NAC/milk thistle and get another test run eventually. I think you'll be okay...just do like your doc said and don't drink, and try to stay away from NSAIDS AMAP...
05-27-2005, 09:21 AM
Holy **** 280mg of m14add?? At my highest point I used 50mg and thought that was a bit much.
05-27-2005, 09:25 AM
Major Liver Function:
· Alkaline Phosphate (normal range: 25 – 150 umol/L)
· GGT (normal range: 0 – 65 IU/L)
· SGOT (AST) (normal range: 0 – 40 IU/L)
· SGPT (ALT) (normal range: 0 – 40 IU/L)
Major Kidney Function:
· Creatinine (normal range: 0.5 – 1.5 mg/dl)
· BUN (normal range: 5 – 26 mg/dl)
· Creatinine/BUN ratio (normal range: 8 – 27)
This may very well be what you are referring to. If it indeed is, high creatinine levels are not uncommon with high(er) protein diets, diets high in meat, or the use of creatine. It is also a byproduct of muscle/skeletal contraction and increased levels of muscle mass.
Creatinine: Creatinine is a byproduct of creatine phosphate, the chemical used in contraction of skeletal muscle. The more muscle mass you have, the higher the creatine levels and therefore the higher the levels of creatinine. Also, when you ingest large amounts of beef or other meats that have high levels of creatine in them, you can increase creatinine levels as well. Since creatinine levels are used to measure the functioning of the kidneys, this easily explains why creatine has been accused of causing kidney damage, since it naturally results in an increase in creatinine levels. However, we need to remember that these tests are only indicators of functioning and thus outside drugs and supplements can influence them and give false results, as creatine may do. This is why creatine, while increasing creatinine levels, does not cause renal damage or impair function. Generally speaking, though, increased levels are indicative of urinary tract obstruction, acute tubular necrosis, reduced renal blood flow (stemming from shock, dehydration, congestive heart failure, atherosclerosis), as well as acromegaly. Decreased levels can be indicative of debilitation, and decreased muscle mass via disease or some other cause.
05-27-2005, 09:28 AM
With no baseline measurement there's really no way to judge whether this is high. It's slightly out of the normal range, but your values may have been higher to begin with. And as the other poster said, 8 weeks of methyls is pushing the limits of safety. Follow your doctor's advice, stay calm and don't take anything that will stress your liver right now. Try some liver helpers other than the milk thistle perhaps.
05-27-2005, 09:34 AM
5150 is spot-on... run some R-ALA at 400mg ed as well. 280mg of M14ADD?! Jesus
05-27-2005, 09:41 AM
m14add is converted to dbol at a rate of 15%. In perspective, this is around 40mg of dbol ed, which isnt that bad. I know the cycle was pushing it though. The high quantity of m14add was based on a suggestion to take high dosages via lean one. I did the cycle when Superdrol was though to be a little safer then it turned out to be. What the hell are NSAIDS and AMAP?Originally Posted by lifted
I am pretty sure you guys are right and it is the creatine levels. I havent taken any Creatine product in about 2 months
05-27-2005, 09:42 AM
Agreed....40-50mg ED was better for me than 50mg straight dbol....plus fewer sides.Originally Posted by ke0ki
05-27-2005, 09:43 AM
just to let you guys know, at 280mg I still got nothing, I am nonresponder.
05-27-2005, 09:43 AM
NSAIDS are pain relievers like motrin, aleve, advil , etc.. AMAP just means as much as possible.Originally Posted by UNDERTAKER
05-27-2005, 09:44 AM
As well are you. I have had stellar liver profiles while 'on' 50mgs of SD with NAC and 600mg ALA 'only' (no milk thistle). I have had equally good liver profiles on M1T with or without milk thistle while using NAC/ALA. I'm begining to believe the anti-o's are what are more/most effective at sustaining/returning liver profiles to healthy ranges. I still use milk thistle post cycle because I have a bunch.Originally Posted by BigSwede
05-27-2005, 09:48 AM
regardlessOriginally Posted by UNDERTAKER
05-27-2005, 09:50 AM
so 400mg ed for rala, what about the mg ed for NAC?
05-27-2005, 10:03 AM
05-27-2005, 10:13 AM
I use NAC and ALA 365/yr. I use regular capped ALA and (kilo's/powder) of NAC powder which makes it rather inexpensive. You could go r-ala as well but it is a bit pricier, but of course you use less. I always use 300mg/d ALA and ~.8g/d NAC year round. When I am on a methyl notorious for brutality I with got up to >/=600mg/d ALA and ~1.2-1.6g/d NAC.
05-27-2005, 10:19 AM
I don't understand that logic, you still have 280 mg ED of a 17alkylated anabolic. Whether it is a 3one or 3ol doesn't matter from a liver damage standpoint. It may be equiv to 280*15% from a potency standpoint, but from a liver standpoint it was 280 mg ED of methyl. I'd say you liver might be fooked for awhile.Originally Posted by UNDERTAKER
05-27-2005, 10:50 AM
Try taking Liv-52 for a few months. Take 4 a day for 2 months. Also excess protein may be also a contributing factor. The liver has to filter everything everthing you eat, such as poisons, drugs, amino acids, sugar and fat. So too much protein could be a contributing factor, but probally not the main cause. Also it takes any liver supplement at least a month to be effective, you should have run the liver supps 1 month before, during, and at least for a month after the cycle.
05-27-2005, 11:35 AM
That's approximately how much Dbol you got out of it, your liver still had to process nearly 300mg of methylated hormone a day.Originally Posted by UNDERTAKER
05-27-2005, 05:40 PM
OMG Poor liver! No one used more than 120mg of M1,4 AFAIK and thats not a mild compound for the liver.
Moreover if u have some elevated creatinine levels, that are your kidneys. Take a B-complex and lots of antioxidants. And yes like your doc said, drink a lot of water.
Can u post the LIVER enzymes values u got?
05-27-2005, 05:59 PM
I remember back when it was still legal it got up to some using 300mgs a day.
Anyway, creatinine levels are elevated in people who lift weights. If your enzymes are that low then it is good, I have no idea what your doc is talking about. Mine are always high, and have been for a loooong time. I have a doc who understands that I lift weights, so it is not a big deal.
Just for some info, it took a good 4 months for my enzymes to return to normal after my second m1t cycle, and even longer for my lipids to normalize.
06-03-2005, 11:58 AM
Ok....I just got some bloodwork back and I have a copy of the results...It looks like everything is within normal range as far as lipids/liver/kidneys except....
Urea Nitrogen (BUN) 28 H normal range 7-25 mg/dl
My Dr. wasnt really concerned about this, she said to just drink more water. This is what my Dr. is really concerned about....
AST 58 H normal range 2-50 U/L
Three months ago my AST was 83 so it is getting better but my Dr. wants me to get a ultrasound. How bad are these #'s?
Also my HDL was 32 L but my Dr. said this isnt a big deal.
06-03-2005, 12:01 PM
Great news, looks like you've avoided an early date with the reaper after all!Originally Posted by UNDERTAKER
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