Cancer Survivor Pro Hormone Question.

[Nuback]

Hi all, and thanks to anyone who can help.

Up until 6 years ago I lifted regularly. I was never a big lifter, or a big guy. At 6ft tall I weighed in at 180lb and managed a 230lb personal best on the bench, but I was happy with the gains I was making. Then, 6 years ago I was hit by spinal cancer. Obviously, due to therapy, weight loss, pain, depression, and a multitude of other ****ty things that go along with it, I stopped lifting and concentrated all of my energy on fighting it and being with my family.

Well, luckily that was one personal best that I will never forget, cause I knocked that **** out of the park. Beating that beats any post workout pump, ever. Anyway, I won't bore you all...

Just over a year ago I started lifting again. Since my cancer I lost a lot of weight, I've gone from 180, to 140lb (I dropped to 115 at one point). I'm literally stuck here. It's like I can't move on and it pisses me off. I can't seem to gain weight, either on myself or my lift. 4 weeks ago I benched 120lb 4 times, yesterday I benched 120lb 4 times. I eat, I rest, I do all the things I did before but it's like my body is resistant to making gains of any kind. And it's not like I wear out anymore, my body just gives up. I've tried going up the weight, but no luck there either. My muscles go soft within a minute of working out too.
So, now I'm considering Prohormones. It's not something I've ever done before, so I've been researching them before taking the plunge. The thing is, I can't find any information on using them having had cancer. Obviously I don't want to just dive in, so if any one on this forum can offer ANY advice, information, or even just point me in the right direction, I'd be eternally grateful.

Anyway, thanks in advance if you can. If not, then thanks for reading anyway.

 

[jathan_howe]

I don't know much about it but I've heard of some concerns about mTor stimulation in general in people that had cancer at the time. Something to do with cell proliferation. I'm not sure of how that carries over to people who beat cancer though. These guys are smart so maybe they can offer more insight
Cjg bighulksmash booneman77 rtmilburn SFreed Alpha1agreda LeanEngineer Volvo140G thebigt hairygrandpa smith_69 Brandinooooo vujade lifted67 Jebrook ChocolateClen justhere4comm ryane87 nostrum420 HIT4ME NewAgeMayan

 

[smith_69]

I would discuss with my Dr- that's the only advice I can give and honestly, that is what you should be looking for

 

[thebigt]

Hi all, and thanks to anyone who can help.

Up until 6 years ago I lifted regularly. I was never a big lifter, or a big guy. At 6ft tall I weighed in at 180lb and managed a 230lb personal best on the bench, but I was happy with the gains I was making. Then, 6 years ago I was hit by spinal cancer. Obviously, due to therapy, weight loss, pain, depression, and a multitude of other ****ty things that go along with it, I stopped lifting and concentrated all of my energy on fighting it and being with my family.

Well, luckily that was one personal best that I will never forget, cause I knocked that **** out of the park. Beating that beats any post workout pump, ever. Anyway, I won't bore you all...

Just over a year ago I started lifting again. Since my cancer I lost a lot of weight, I've gone from 180, to 140lb (I dropped to 115 at one point). I'm literally stuck here. It's like I can't move on and it pisses me off. I can't seem to gain weight, either on myself or my lift. 4 weeks ago I benched 120lb 4 times, yesterday I benched 120lb 4 times. I eat, I rest, I do all the things I did before but it's like my body is resistant to making gains of any kind. And it's not like I wear out anymore, my body just gives up. I've tried going up the weight, but no luck there either. My muscles go soft within a minute of working out too.
So, now I'm considering Prohormones. It's not something I've ever done before, so I've been researching them before taking the plunge. The thing is, I can't find any information on using them having had cancer. Obviously I don't want to just dive in, so if any one on this forum can offer ANY advice, information, or even just point me in the right direction, I'd be eternally grateful.

Anyway, thanks in advance if you can. If not, then thanks for reading anyway.

amazing story and congrats on beating cancer...I don't feel in any way qualified to offer you advice, but I want to welcome you to ANABOLICMINDS FORUM... Danes

 

[bighulksmash]

I'm in for knowledge. I can't offer any advice because I've never had to deal with this sort of subject but it would be great to have the knowledge of somebody who would know.

 

[Danes]

Hi all, and thanks to anyone who can help.

Up until 6 years ago I lifted regularly. I was never a big lifter, or a big guy. At 6ft tall I weighed in at 180lb and managed a 230lb personal best on the bench, but I was happy with the gains I was making. Then, 6 years ago I was hit by spinal cancer. Obviously, due to therapy, weight loss, pain, depression, and a multitude of other ****ty things that go along with it, I stopped lifting and concentrated all of my energy on fighting it and being with my family.

Well, luckily that was one personal best that I will never forget, cause I knocked that **** out of the park. Beating that beats any post workout pump, ever. Anyway, I won't bore you all...

Just over a year ago I started lifting again. Since my cancer I lost a lot of weight, I've gone from 180, to 140lb (I dropped to 115 at one point). I'm literally stuck here. It's like I can't move on and it pisses me off. I can't seem to gain weight, either on myself or my lift. 4 weeks ago I benched 120lb 4 times, yesterday I benched 120lb 4 times. I eat, I rest, I do all the things I did before but it's like my body is resistant to making gains of any kind. And it's not like I wear out anymore, my body just gives up. I've tried going up the weight, but no luck there either. My muscles go soft within a minute of working out too.
So, now I'm considering Prohormones. It's not something I've ever done before, so I've been researching them before taking the plunge. The thing is, I can't find any information on using them having had cancer. Obviously I don't want to just dive in, so if any one on this forum can offer ANY advice, information, or even just point me in the right direction, I'd be eternally grateful.

Anyway, thanks in advance if you can. If not, then thanks for reading anyway.

I am glad you won!

I really suggest you to run a lot of bloodwork..i would also involve Endo so he/she can check your HPTA.
It may be hormonal issues etc.
"Regular" doctor does not understand like an Endo does. (The whole picture of hormones )

Dont start with prohormones/steroids before you know for sure how things are in your body!

 

[SFreed]

I think everybody is heading you in the right direction. Congrats on beating it! Anything you accomplish now is bonus, so have fun with that shyt!!

 

[justhere4comm]

I'm no prohormone expert by any means, am grateful for the mention. Cancer runs in my family, but I've not had it, (yet) however I behave as though I already do. In my decisions and actions every day and if I decide to take a risk of some kind, I calculate how great it might be by doing my research.

In your case, you had and beat cancer. Can it come back? Yes, it can, and you know it can in different forms. My father had two kinds. Beat one, and the other, he didn't. Mother died of cancer as well.

Your story is of success. I would keep it that way and add to my chances by being as healthy as possible. Do you need prohormones to grow? I don't believe so. Your doctor would be the first stop to questions regarding supplements and risk, not here. (All respect) but nobody I know will be giving your the 'good to go' and feel good to go about it. I'd eat my hat.

Now then, as one of my English friends loves to say. It's his way of sequaying into the realm of possibility. If your goal is to grow, eat, and if you cannot eat the calories to do so, there are some safe supplements to help your appetite. Part two of this is, drop the weights. Body weight exercises and build your core again. You're a warrior my man! A f.ucking g.damned warrior!!! Train like one. I'm not about telling you what you cannot do, but I am about telling what you CAN do.

One of my best friends in Chicago teaches Muai Thai Kickboxing and used to train people with me. We used a great many core exercises before they touched weights. You have to return to learning as we say. It's humbling, but rewarding. If you are interested, I can shoot you some routines.

Thank you for sharing your story.

 

[Danes]

In your case, you had and beat cancer. Can it come back? Yes, it can, and you know it can in different forms. My father had two kinds. Beat one, and the other, he didn't. Mother died of cancer as well.

Sorry to hear that man

 

[booneman77]

So this is not what you're going to want to hear, but it's the truth:

You're not eating enough. I 100% guarantee it. Weight gain is physics. There's no way you can just eat and eat and not gain weight. The laws apply.

You absolutely need to learn to eat more calories before trying any ph (regardless of whether you're ready physically/medically or not).

Between muscle memory and enough quality food, you have a long way to make progress without anything hormonal.

 

[ChocolateClen]

Thanks for the mention, I however know nothing about this so I'm not going to comment because I honestly have nothing valuable to offer. I'd rather not try to speculate and throw out broscience if I can help it.

 

[user567]

Get your hormones checked and eat eat eat. You will grow. Its nature's law. why consider PH's. If your levels are low use test

 

[rascal14]

Eat more food like booneman77 said.

 

[Nuback]

Thanks for the replies, for taking the time to read and the advice based on what you know, and not speculation. And thanks for the love.
I've scoured forums looking for information on the subject, but with no luck. I am surprised that I can't seem to find anyone with any experience, or knowledge regarding this. But thanks anyway for being honest. What I take from this is that it's probably not a good idea with so little information, and I definitely don't want to be the first test subject.

I would like to add, I do eat, a lot. I have been on a high calorie diet for some time now. It was something I needed to do to regain some of the weight I lost during treatment. My daily intake is around 3500 a day, with regular input from a dietitian. I understand my metabolism may have changed since I was younger, fitter, and healthier, so I will look into that again.

Anyway, thanks a lot guys, and much love to you all. I guess it's just keep going and hope I can smash that plateau.

 

[smith_69]

Thanks for the replies, for taking the time to read and the advice based on what you know, and not speculation. And thanks for the love.
I've scoured forums looking for information on the subject, but with no luck. I am surprised that I can't seem to find anyone with any experience, or knowledge regarding this. But thanks anyway for being honest. What I take from this is that it's probably not a good idea with so little information, and I definitely don't want to be the first test subject.

I would like to add, I do eat, a lot. I have been on a high calorie diet for some time now. It was something I needed to do to regain some of the weight I lost during treatment. My daily intake is around 3500 a day, with regular input from a dietitian. I understand my metabolism may have changed since I was younger, fitter, and healthier, so I will look into that again.

Anyway, thanks a lot guys, and much love to you all. I guess it's just keep going and hope I can smash that plateau.

hey bro,

start here, this should get you pointed in the right direction

http://www.cancer.org/treatment/survivorship-during-and-after-treatment/staying-active/physical-activity-and-the-cancer-patient.html

 

[Nuback]

hey bro,

start here, this should get you pointed in the right direction

Thanks, I've already received most of that information.

 

[booneman77]

Thanks for the replies, for taking the time to read and the advice based on what you know, and not speculation. And thanks for the love.
I've scoured forums looking for information on the subject, but with no luck. I am surprised that I can't seem to find anyone with any experience, or knowledge regarding this. But thanks anyway for being honest. What I take from this is that it's probably not a good idea with so little information, and I definitely don't want to be the first test subject.

I would like to add, I do eat, a lot. I have been on a high calorie diet for some time now. It was something I needed to do to regain some of the weight I lost during treatment. My daily intake is around 3500 a day, with regular input from a dietitian. I understand my metabolism may have changed since I was younger, fitter, and healthier, so I will look into that again.

Anyway, thanks a lot guys, and much love to you all. I guess it's just keep going and hope I can smash that plateau.

3500 really is not that high... there are tons of guys here that lose weight at that level (I wish I had that problem!)

If you want, post up a daily diet and we can help you find some places where you can fit in more cals easily. I know you said you're working with a dietitian but have you discussed this with them and if so, what adjustments have they helped you make?

 

[ChocolateClen]

3500 really is not that high... there are tons of guys here that lose weight at that level (I wish I had that problem!)

If you want, post up a daily diet and we can help you find some places where you can fit in more cals easily. I know you said you're working with a dietitian but have you discussed this with them and if so, what adjustments have they helped you make?

3500 is still pretty damn high lol not to undermine you or anything because you have a very valid point. In for helping op eat more.

 

[booneman77]

3500 is still pretty damn high lol not to undermine you or anything because you have a very valid point. In for helping op eat more.

he's 6' tall so not really... maint for someone my size (5'10) is usually around 2600-2800 so add a few inches to that and a faster metabolism and 3500 isnt even a surplus!

 

[Woody]

he's 6' tall so not really... maint for someone my size (5'10) is usually around 2600-2800 so add a few inches to that and a faster metabolism and 3500 isnt even a surplus!

Yeah my maintenance is around 3000-3200 and I'm 5'10. Perks of a high metabolism I guess.

 

[Nuback]

3500 really is not that high... there are tons of guys here that lose weight at that level (I wish I had that problem!)

If you want, post up a daily diet and we can help you find some places where you can fit in more cals easily. I know you said you're working with a dietitian but have you discussed this with them and if so, what adjustments have they helped you make?

Thanks for your offer of help. I have discussed this with my dietitian and we've spoke about upping my calorie intake, though he is of the belief that I should be gaining weight on 3500. My daily diet generally consists of

2 bowls of oatmeal.
1 Bowl of cereal (usually cornflakes)
3 pieces of fruit (usually Banana and Pears)
2 Bowls of Noodles/Pasta with tuna or chicken
A mixed salad, with nuts or lactose free cheese.
Dinner can be anything, whatever the wife cooks, but is usually a large meal.
4 lactose free yoghurts.
2 Complans (I've literally been addicted to these since I started them during my cancer treatment)
2 - 4 Protein shakes.

These are all carefully weighed out to ensure I get a good amount of calories a day, and on last revision it worked out to 3500 a day. My diet is generally quite restricted, as since the cancer I have trouble tolerating gluten or dairy. The gluten in my diet now is as much as I can tolerate, and for dairy I use lactose free products.

The thing is, weve been upping my calorie intake over the last six months, from 2500 to 3000, now to 3500. I was 140lb six months ago, and I'm 140lb now. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated. I've tried a few different supplements, and weight gain powders with absolutely no luck.

edit: Upping to 3500 was 6 months ago, my post doesn't make that clear.

 

[ChocolateClen]

Yeah my maintenance is around 3000-3200 and I'm 5'10. Perks of a high metabolism I guess.

I'm roughly around 4200

 

[booneman77]

Thanks for your offer of help. I have discussed this with my dietitian and we've spoke about upping my calorie intake, though he is of the belief that I should be gaining weight on 3500. My daily diet generally consists of

2 bowls of oatmeal.
1 Bowl of cereal (usually cornflakes)
3 pieces of fruit (usually Banana and Pears)
2 Bowls of Noodles/Pasta with tuna or chicken
A mixed salad, with nuts or lactose free cheese.
Dinner can be anything, whatever the wife cooks, but is usually a large meal.
4 lactose free yoghurts.
2 Complans (I've literally been addicted to these since I started them during my cancer treatment)
2 - 4 Protein shakes.

These are all carefully weighed out to ensure I get a good amount of calories a day, and on last revision it worked out to 3500 a day. My diet is generally quite restricted, as since the cancer I have trouble tolerating gluten or dairy. The gluten in my diet now is as much as I can tolerate, and for dairy I use lactose free products.

The thing is, weve been upping my calorie intake over the last six months, from 2500 to 3000, now to 3500. I was 140lb six months ago, and I'm 140lb now. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated. I've tried a few different supplements, and weight gain powders with absolutely no luck.

edit: Upping to 3500 was 6 months ago, my post doesn't make that clear.

some simple ways to add more cals:

Choose fattier cuts of chicken (thighs vs breasts or tenderlions)
Choose salmon over tuna

fattier nuts on the salad (IIRC macadamia are like 210cal/oz)
Go nuts with fatty dressings or add some oil

Obviously dinner is what it is, but sauces, oils, butters, and such all can add a lot of cals with minimal volume.
Fattier cuts of meat will help here as well

Had to look up complans ha... looks like another shake type product so that's good. low volume, reasonably good cals (244/srv)

For proteins, I assume you're using mostly isolates or vegetarian proteins since theyre the easiest for lactose intolerance. I highly suggest adding things like peanutbutter (or any nut butters), oils (coconut is better taste wise than olive IMO).

Just a few of these changes could easily add 1000 cals a day without really being much volume. If the volume is truly an issue, a mid-night shake can add a few hundred as well. Mix up a high cal version and throw it in the bathroom and chug it down if you get up to use the bathroom at night


No offense to your dietician, but it doesn't matter what he "believes"... the evidence/proof in the fact that you havent gained weight at that cal level while tracking that closely means its a fact that he's wrong ha. You need more cals is literally the only answer.

 

[Nuback]

some simple ways to add more cals:

Choose fattier cuts of chicken (thighs vs breasts or tenderlions)
Choose salmon over tuna

fattier nuts on the salad (IIRC macadamia are like 210cal/oz)
Go nuts with fatty dressings or add some oil

Obviously dinner is what it is, but sauces, oils, butters, and such all can add a lot of cals with minimal volume.
Fattier cuts of meat will help here as well

Had to look up complans ha... looks like another shake type product so that's good. low volume, reasonably good cals (244/srv)

For proteins, I assume you're using mostly isolates or vegetarian proteins since theyre the easiest for lactose intolerance. I highly suggest adding things like peanutbutter (or any nut butters), oils (coconut is better taste wise than olive IMO).

Just a few of these changes could easily add 1000 cals a day without really being much volume. If the volume is truly an issue, a mid-night shake can add a few hundred as well. Mix up a high cal version and throw it in the bathroom and chug it down if you get up to use the bathroom at night


No offense to your dietician, but it doesn't matter what he "believes"... the evidence/proof in the fact that you havent gained weight at that cal level while tracking that closely means its a fact that he's wrong ha. You need more cals is literally the only answer.

Thanks, I'll take what I can on board. I think you're probably right, there is an element of eating too clean. It's something, again, I've been doing since the cancer, for obvious reasons. It's annoying, because I used to eat less and sit at a comfortable 180lb.

 

[Danes]

3500 is still pretty damn high lol not to undermine you or anything because you have a very valid point. In for helping op eat more.

3500 calories is "much" if you eat SUPER clean but if you want to gain the weight/ mass then its pretty easy to eat more than 3500kcal.

 

[Danes]

some simple ways to add more cals:

Choose fattier cuts of chicken (thighs vs breasts or tenderlions)
Choose salmon over tuna

fattier nuts on the salad (IIRC macadamia are like 210cal/oz)
Go nuts with fatty dressings or add some oil

Obviously dinner is what it is, but sauces, oils, butters, and such all can add a lot of cals with minimal volume.
Fattier cuts of meat will help here as well

Had to look up complans ha... looks like another shake type product so that's good. low volume, reasonably good cals (244/srv)

For proteins, I assume you're using mostly isolates or vegetarian proteins since theyre the easiest for lactose intolerance. I highly suggest adding things like peanutbutter (or any nut butters), oils (coconut is better taste wise than olive IMO).

Just a few of these changes could easily add 1000 cals a day without really being much volume. If the volume is truly an issue, a mid-night shake can add a few hundred as well. Mix up a high cal version and throw it in the bathroom and chug it down if you get up to use the bathroom at night


No offense to your dietician, but it doesn't matter what he "believes"... the evidence/proof in the fact that you havent gained weight at that cal level while tracking that closely means its a fact that he's wrong ha. You need more cals is literally the only answer.

This!
Small diet adjustments will lead you to get more calories than you think.
Go for more fattier food instead super lean. Peanutbutter will also be your good friend

 

[booneman77]

Thanks, I'll take what I can on board. I think you're probably right, there is an element of eating too clean. It's something, again, I've been doing since the cancer, for obvious reasons. It's annoying, because I used to eat less and sit at a comfortable 180lb.

ONe thing to remember, is that "clean" does not mean "low fat"... almost everything that you have is pretty low fat and that actually can be a large problem as fat is what keeps up healthy testosterone levels. Frankly, adding fat to your diet might be exactly what you need to get things moving from both a test production level, as well as pure calories

 

[ngozee]

I am a colon cancer survivor. Between the Resection, radiation and chemo I was out of he gym for 18 months. My focus is on eating good and clean food and sups that aid with recovery, no pro hormones yet. After 22 months back in the gym I have to say I'm pleased with the results. Train smart, eat well and focus on recovering and you'll be great!

 

[nostrum420]

Hi all, and thanks to anyone who can help.

Up until 6 years ago I lifted regularly. I was never a big lifter, or a big guy. At 6ft tall I weighed in at 180lb and managed a 230lb personal best on the bench, but I was happy with the gains I was making. Then, 6 years ago I was hit by spinal cancer. Obviously, due to therapy, weight loss, pain, depression, and a multitude of other ****ty things that go along with it, I stopped lifting and concentrated all of my energy on fighting it and being with my family.

Well, luckily that was one personal best that I will never forget, cause I knocked that **** out of the park. Beating that beats any post workout pump, ever. Anyway, I won't bore you all...

Just over a year ago I started lifting again. Since my cancer I lost a lot of weight, I've gone from 180, to 140lb (I dropped to 115 at one point). I'm literally stuck here. It's like I can't move on and it pisses me off. I can't seem to gain weight, either on myself or my lift. 4 weeks ago I benched 120lb 4 times, yesterday I benched 120lb 4 times. I eat, I rest, I do all the things I did before but it's like my body is resistant to making gains of any kind. And it's not like I wear out anymore, my body just gives up. I've tried going up the weight, but no luck there either. My muscles go soft within a minute of working out too.
So, now I'm considering Prohormones. It's not something I've ever done before, so I've been researching them before taking the plunge. The thing is, I can't find any information on using them having had cancer. Obviously I don't want to just dive in, so if any one on this forum can offer ANY advice, information, or even just point me in the right direction, I'd be eternally grateful.

Anyway, thanks in advance if you can. If not, then thanks for reading anyway.

What's your goal here? Muscle gain without excessive risk of cancer recurrence?

If you'd like to PM me I'd be happy to discuss the topic with you but I definitely need more info before I can even begin to make a recommendation.