T3 and PH DS CYCLE

[james117]

Would like some input please. Running T3 @ 30-50mcg daily 2 weeks on 2 weeks off followed by another 2 on 2 off. Running pct during the off. What I would like to know is what compound you would use and what the minimum dosage would be to prevent muscle loss. I'm thinking 16mg DMZ daily or low dose of msten. What does everyone think. Remember I don't want to build anything. Just take enough to maintain. It'll make my pct a breeze and keeps sides down to which I get a lot of. Thanks for any replies!

 

[james117]

And my test base will be epiandro.

 

[netflixNchill]

I think you're gonna need more than that, seen logs of people needing a fair amount of injectables to prevent muscle wasting. I'm on t3 right now and tren seemed to help tremendously with muscle wasting. Coulda been the boldenone too

 

[nosnmiveins]

Your T3 dosing protocol looks like a clen protocol. T3 needs to be taken everyday for the entire duration

 

[james117]

So do 4 weeks of 30-50mg T3 with a PH or DS? What's wrong with doing 2 on 2 off? And then repeat?
Would results just be the same? I thought that approach would be better for lowing sides

 

[james117]

Thanks for replies to

 

[nosnmiveins]

So do 4 weeks of 30-50mg T3 with a PH or DS? What's wrong with doing 2 on 2 off? And then repeat?
Would results just be the same? I thought that approach would be better for lowing sides

T3 has a short half life and has to be dosed daily. I've never in all my years heard of anyone running T3 2 on/2 off. Run it 4 weeks, 6 weeks, 8 weeks.....whatever, but take it daily. Don't expect anything special fatloss for T3 though, there are much better options and ways to lose fat

 

[zcol94]

T3 has a short half life and has to be dosed daily. I've never in all my years heard of anyone running T3 2 on/2 off. Run it 4 weeks, 6 weeks, 8 weeks.....whatever, but take it daily. Don't expect anything special fatloss for T3 though, there are much better options and ways to lose fat

Better than t3?... Please, continue

 

[netflixNchill]

Yea t3 is more potent for me than low dose DNP, and way more potent than clen and ec

 

[james117]

I did mean 2 weeks straight and 2 weeks off to get things to recover and go 2 weeks straight again. Yes I would be doing daily doses of 30 -50 mcg. That dose would have to be burning an extra 100 cals daily which all adds up in the grand scheme of things.

 

[james117]

No way in hell am I touching DNP hahahaha. Each to there own on that one though.
I'm in Aus and getting caught with Clen is like getting done for ice and other hard drugs. But I can get pharma grade T3 so that's why I'm sticking with that.

 

[nosnmiveins]

I did mean 2 weeks straight and 2 weeks off to get things to recover and go 2 weeks straight again. Yes I would be doing daily doses of 30 -50 mcg. That dose would have to be burning an extra 100 cals daily which all adds up in the grand scheme of things.

Just trying to understand here, is the 2 on/2 off for the T3 or PH? I've been reading it as the T3 was 2 on/2 off. Either way, both the T3 and PH should be taken daily for 4+ weeks.

I still feel like you got the 2 on/2 off from reading a protocol for clen. The 2 on/2 off for clen is because receptors get fried....so the 2 weeks off is so they can take a break and get back to working correctly once your start the clen again

 

[netflixNchill]

Yea I would do 6 weeks of t3 and some sort of anabolic

 

[james117]

I just thought 14 days of T3 and PH would keep sides minimal and still produce noticeable results since I'm at 8%bf now. If I do 4 weeks of T3 I'm worried about a rebound in fat gain and longer recovery time for my thyroid. Would 30-50mcg daily for 4 weeks be alright then with a PH and not to suppressive to thyroid?

 

[james117]

And it's 2 weeks straight of PH and T3 to be clear. And then 2 weeks nolva at 20 down to 10 mg and a little aromasin because I get estro sides from all SERMs. Then I would probably do it all over again for another 2 weeks on and then finish with another 2 weeks of PCT.

 

[netflixNchill]

You're shutting it down regardless. Just do the cycle and don't keep throwing it out of wack like you plan to do

 

[james117]

Gotcha. So how long does it take you guys to bounce back after T3? What side do you have when on it and when coming off clod turkey? Thanks for the replies also it very helpful.

 

[netflixNchill]

I'm on my first cycle of it, but I've heard you need to ween off it

 

[james117]

How far through? How do ya feel?
Everything I've read has made me decide when I run it to drop it cold turkey. But weaning off it could be user comfort or something.
While I think of it I was talking to a mate on a Aussie forum and he did 30mcg daily for 4 weeks without any anabolic. (He had T3 left over and used it up) His strength remained the same and he lost 5 pounds. Went from 8 to 5.8% bf.
Makes me wonder if taking just over the replacement dosage (25mcg daily) would give an extra kick to the metabolisim and further fat loss when at a sticking point. Taking an extra 5 mcg on top of the replacement dose (body make like 25mcg daily) may not hurt the gains as much as we think. I'm half considering doing a log on just T3 at 30mcg daily and report findings.

 

[james117]

Maybe a solo T3 log could be to boring for people to follow along.

 

[fueledpassion]

I think you're gonna need more than that, seen logs of people needing a fair amount of injectables to prevent muscle wasting. I'm on t3 right now and tren seemed to help tremendously with muscle wasting. Coulda been the boldenone too

16mg of DMZ is probably enough to fight 30-50mcg of T3 daily. It doesn't take much if you are eating plenty of food. I get tired of referencing my earlier posts on thyroid, but I guess I'll do it again...

Also, while I was running less than 400mg/wk of various androgens during contest prep, I ran 37.5-50mcg of T3 per day and added 8lbs of lean mass while losing 16lbs of fat mass. This was over the course of about 7-8 weeks though. Used in conjunction with insulin or boat loads of carbs, T3 actually becomes solely anabolic. The catabolic nature of T3 can easily be reduced or removed with insulin or carbs. Unlike other hormones, T3 is both catabolic AND anabolic - just depends on the metabolic environment (fasted or fed state).

Just remember that T3 is strong but insulin is stronger and can overcome T3's catabolic tendencies. The best way I can explain it is using a warehouse full of goods that has a steady stream of incoming supplies that equals a steady stream of shipments. We'll call the supplies amino acids. In this scenario, you'd have zero change in composition and weight.

T3 increases the income supplies (receipts) and the shipments. But the shipments would increase in greater amounts. So we will eventually have a net deficit inventory of supplies (amino acids). We're losing inventory basically.

Insulin and AAS basically slow down the orders and therefore the shipments out of the warehouse, while T3 is still increasing the incoming re-stocking supplies on the other end. The more insulin (carbs) and AAS we use, the slower the shipments (muscle protein breakdown) we see going out. You end up with gaining inventory in that environment because T3 is still increasing re-stock receipts while insulin and AAS are slowing down the loss of inventory on the other side.

Understand? This is why T3 is awesome. It increases protein turnover but when you slow down the use of proteins via anabolics of various sorts, you just get a hyper nutrient-dumping environment from the T3. This is where cheat meals and higher calories really pay off with T3 usage. Combining T3 and AAS, you can really do things that are quite unfair in terms of what the body would be able to do naturally. You can literally transform your body and do it significantly faster to boot.

Your diet and training have just as much to do with retaining muscle mass as the thyroid and AAS dosing. I (along with many others) have successfully gained weight while taking thyroid medicine. It's nice too because the weight is all lean mass.

 

[james117]

Mate that was a good read. So correct me if I'm wrong but because protein turnover is greater with exogenous T3, would protein intake also need to be increased. Like 50mcg is double the natural output. So does protein turn over also double? So instead of requiring 1g protein per pound it's now 2g protein per pound. Understand where your coming from with the carbs and insulin to. Just unsure about protein intake and turnover rate. Sorry I didn't read that post of yours else where and you had to repost it.

 

[fueledpassion]

Mate that was a good read. So correct me if I'm wrong but because protein turnover is greater with exogenous T3, would protein intake also need to be increased. Like 50mcg is double the natural output. So does protein turn over also double? So instead of requiring 1g protein per pound it's now 2g protein per pound. Understand where your coming from with the carbs and insulin to. Just unsure about protein intake and turnover rate. Sorry I didn't read that post of yours else where and you had to repost it.

Yes, protein turnover does increase. I'd say increase your protein inyake by 20-30% to start and see how that works. I'd also recommend doing so in smaller, more frequent meals so your absorption rate is higher.

If you increase calories in general, you will still get results, just not as good as if you were to increase protein intake foremost. Your body will perform more gluconeogenesis as it needs to. My advice is to stay away from scenarios that your body would feel the need to do so. A couple of examples:

1) avoid prolonged fasting periods
2) avoid stringent activity while fasted
3) Take BCAA's between meals and when its not practical to eat. The body will prefer these over your muscle tissue for energy.
4) Train on a fed state. Bring shakes and extra sources of carbs to the gym.
5) Try to maintain a "pump" all day long. Your body is not catabolic while the muscle is "pumped" and on a full stomach.
5) avoid huge carb meals. Just need enough to feed the muscle. You dont want prolonged high blood glucose levels if you are trying to cut up, hence, the reason to eat smaller more frequent meals.

 

[james117]

We'll I'll increase my protein upwards of 350 and keep bcaas up but that'll be the only increase of calories. Just don't want to go over maintainer cals.

 

[fueledpassion]

We'll I'll increase my protein upwards of 350 and keep bcaas up but that'll be the only increase of calories. Just don't want to go over maintainer cals.

I understand. Your maintenance calories will increase with T3 usage. The benefits of doing this though is that with anabolics in the picture and with a really good diet and training regimen, the only thing that gets burned out of your body is fat. T3 is anabolic, too. It will keep muscle cells at top priority as long as you feed the muscle appropriately.