Mirtazapine (Remeron)Useful in bodybuilding?
- 03-05-2003, 08:34 PM
Mirtazapine (Remeron)Useful in bodybuilding?
I was crusing at CEM today, had though about the effects of Remeron before, then dismissed it for the fact no one else posted anything about it, now Nandi at CEM (you all know Nandi) has a couple of case studies on it and are excited about it. Remeron will increase your appetite (as reported), this is useful for bulking on cycle or post cycle when you need your caloric intake high to maintain gains.....
Heres the studies:
Prog Neuropsychopharmacol Biol Psychiatry 2002 Dec;26(7-8):1253-61
Endocrinological effects of mirtazapine in healthy volunteers.
Schule C, Baghai T, Bidlingmaier M, Strasburger C, Laakmann G.
Psychiatric Hospital, University of Munich, Munich, Germany. [email protected]
OBJECTIVE: Unlike other antidepressants, mirtazapine does not inhibit the reuptake of norepinephrine or serotonin (5-HT) but acts as an antagonist at presynaptic alpha2-receptors and at postsynaptic 5-HT2, 5-HT3 and histamine H1-receptors. In the present investigation, the influence of acute oral administration of 15-mg mirtazapine on the cortisol (COR), adrenocorticotropin (ACTH), growth hormone (GH) and prolactin (PRL) secretion was examined in 12 healthy male subjects, compared to placebo. METHODS: After insertion of an intravenous catheter, both the mean arterial blood pressure (MAP) and the heart rate were recorded and blood samples were drawn 1 h prior to the administration of mirtazapine or placebo (7:00 a.m.), at time of administration (8:00 a.m.) and during 5 h thereafter in periods of 30 min. Concentrations of COR, ACTH, GH and PRL were measured in each blood sample by double antibody radioimmunoassay and chemiluminescence immunoassay methods. The area under the curve (AUC; 0-300 min after mirtazapine or placebo administration) was used as parameter for the COR, ACTH, GH and PRL response. Furthermore, the urinary free cortisol excretion (UFC) was determined beginning at 8:00 a.m. (time of administration of placebo or mirtazapine) up to 8:00 a.m. the day after. RESULTS: Two-sided t-tests for paired samples revealed significantly lower COR AUC, ACTH AUC, UFC and PRL AUC values after 15-mg mirtazapine compared to placebo, whereas no significant differences were found with respect to GH AUC, MAP and heart rate. CONCLUSIONS: Since the acute inhibition of COR secretion in the healthy volunteers was paralleled by a simultaneous decrease of ACTH release, central mechanisms (e.g., inhibition of hypothalamic corticotropin releasing hormone (CRH) output) are suggested to be responsible for the inhibitory effects of mirtazapine on COR secretion. Our results are of particular interest in the light of the hypercortisolism observed in depressed patients and new pharmacological approaches such as CRH1 receptor antagonists.
**So in a sense, this is equal to bromo, Cytadren & Prozac all in one....
Hum Psychopharmacol 2002 Jun;17 Suppl 1:S37-41
Tolerability and safety aspects of mirtazapine.
University of Bristol, Bristol, UK.
The tolerability and safety profile of the noradrenergic and specific serotonergic antidepressant (NaSSA) mirtazapine reflects its unique pharmacological profile. The 5-HT(2) blocking effect contributes towards its anxiolytic effects and benefits on sleep, as well as preventing the sexual dysfunction that may occur with non-specific stimulation of the serotonin system by drugs such as the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs). In addition, 5-HT(3) blockade by mirtazapine helps to prevent nausea and vomiting. Weight gain is the most commonly reported side-effect of mirtazapine, although there is evidence to suggest that this is not a significant problem during long-term treatment. In conclusion, mirtazapine has a good tolerability and safety profile that demonstrates several benefits over other antidepressants. Copyright 2002 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.
- 03-05-2003, 09:16 PM
If it reduces cortsiol and prolactin, it might be a good substitute for bromo in reducing progesterone gyno. Other than that, I've heard its also a good appetite stimulant.@pogue25 on Twitter
- 03-05-2003, 09:39 PM
03-06-2003, 06:48 AM
nandi said its a substite for cytadren , cortisol supressing yeah , but aldosterone ?? only way he can compare it to cytadren is cos of the cortisol supression , then i wud rather use benzos , cortisol supression and nice gh release . much easier to find too , lol , otc for me
03-06-2003, 08:19 AM
03-06-2003, 09:15 AM
benzodiazepines , like diazepam(valium ) , xanax , klonopins etc etc , strictly for cortisol control , at low doses . they relieve stress and control cortisol (reduce ) , if u want , i'll dig out a study for u from pubmed .
03-06-2003, 09:46 PM
Thats alright, I noticed you mentioned they released GH too. How significant is it at releasing GH?
@pogue25 on Twitter
03-06-2003, 11:38 PM
well , supposed to be significant at doing so , plenty of articles on this at anabolic extreme , almost like promoting their use u cud say . if u want to go for the gh release that much , u have gbl or ghb which does a better job at it for sure while not interfering with ur rem sleep , when u read the animalbolics diet , u will see how much animal recommends this .
03-06-2003, 11:41 PM
They can also be addictive. I have scrips for both Ativan and Xanax!Originally posted by raybravo
benzodiazepines , like diazepam(valium ) , xanax , klonopins etc etc , strictly for cortisol control , at low doses . they relieve stress and control cortisol&nbsp;(reduce )&nbsp;, if u want , i'll dig out a study for u from pubmed .
03-06-2003, 11:44 PM
yeah a problem with benzos are they are very addictive ,**** a pro suggested nubain use 4 times a day to me ! lol , and something else , and valium at night , and he said do this and see urself grow and get ripped . i was like wtf ???!
03-07-2003, 05:51 AM
found this info on anabolic extreme , thought wud post it here :
"Absolutely never use GHB…This is no bodybuilding drug and has screwed up more people that Cannabis and Nubain put together. I despise all of these drugs. I was once addicted to nubain and it crept up on me and swallowed me whole for a while.
GHB does stimulate serotonin and this makes for a little GH production, but it stimulates considerably more cortisol and this makes for the big muscle shrink.
I prefer a simple benzodiazapene taken intermittently to avoid the possibility of dependence. Twice or three times a week when you really need it. Products of choice are -
Lorazepam 50mg aka Seresta, aka oxazepan.
Diazepam 10-15 mg.
Tamazipam lingers the next day too much.
Another possibility is a good hypnotic which puts you to sleep but wears off once you are in deep sleep. These are non-addictive.
Benzo's are the world's ultimate GH stimulators as well. You must be careful to not take them then go out. Be strict on yourself and have deliberate nights when you do and do not use them. I use them after back and legs."
03-07-2003, 09:19 AM
I believe Valium and all the other *pams are controlled because they are intoxicating.
@pogue25 on Twitter
03-07-2003, 09:22 AM
03-07-2003, 09:52 AM
03-07-2003, 12:36 PM
Mirtazapine would only be useful if you have insomnia.
I got off paxil due to the sexual side effects, and switched to Remeron (mirtazapine), 15mg per day.
It made me sleep for 13 hours and I was still tired and foggy all day. I finally gave up and quit after 5 weeks, I couldn't take it anymore. I don't recommend it to anyone who want to stay awake.
03-11-2003, 02:22 AM
I'm with grenguy on this one. I have used Mirtazapine also to treat depression and it made me so lethargic, I could hardly move. I don't recomend it for anyone. Take the lethargy you get from 1-Test and times it by 10 and that is how mirtazapine makes me feel.
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