Tren and Test Cyp.
- 05-11-2005, 10:34 AM
Tren and Test Cyp.
Can someone please explain to me the true benefits of Tren? I will be starting a cycle soon consisting of Tren 3X per week at 80mg. per shot. In addition to that I will be doing Test Cyp. 500 mg. per week. Right now I weight 196 at 6 ft tall. My arms are a littel over 17", chest is around 45", waist is around 34", and thighs are 23". My calves really need some work they are about 15"
I wanted to do Tren by itself for financial reasons but I kept getting urged by others to add some Test to it. Would I have been ok opting for just Tren, or am I doing the right think adding Test to it? Look at my cycle and tell me where I could improve.
6 week cycle
Week 1 and 6
Tren 80 mg. Mon, Wed, Fri
Test Cyp. 250mg.
Tren 80 mg. Mon, Wed, Fri
Test Cyp. Mon 250 mg. and Fri 250 mg.
What can I expect from this cycle with propoer diet and training?
- 05-11-2005, 10:39 AM
lots of problems with this cycle ..
first the cyp won't even kick in until week 4 or 5 .. to run it for 6 weeks is assanine .. if you want a short cycle use a short estered test like prop
or run the cyp for 12 weeks
second tren ace (i'm assuming that's what you're running) should be injected a minimum of eod, 3x a week isn't enough, 80mg eod is fine
finally you'll need to bump that test up to 500mg a week esp to counter the bad sides of tren (irritability, fina dick)
the benefits of tren are that it anectodally strips off fat, builds muscle, and massive strength gains .. the potential sides - insomnia, night sweats, irritiability, feeling like ass in general
make sure you ACTUALLY have a proper diet .. if your goal is to bulk take in 15-18x your BW in cals with a 40/40/20 split of pro/carbs/ healthy fats (each g of pro and carbs is 4 cals, each g of fat is 9)
- 05-11-2005, 10:46 AM
Would it be OK to make it a 10 week cycle and only take 250mg. per week of the Test? If that would be ok would you recommend not starting the Tren until around week 4 or 5?
15-18x my body weight is not a problem. Thanks for your help!!
05-11-2005, 10:49 AM
Also, would there be anything wrong with doing 250mg. per week of Test Cyp. and 250mg per week of Test En.?
05-11-2005, 10:55 AM
10 weeks is ok .. not optimal though .. yes its definitely fine to run 250mg of cyp and 250mg of enan a week for a total of 500mg of test a week .. the esters are so similar
if you are only gonna run the test for 10 weeks do this
1-10 test 500mg total (2 shots 250 each mon/thurs)
3-8 tren ace 80mg eod
3-11 250 iu HCG 2x a week
11.5-14.5 nolva 40/40/20/20 mg each day per week respectively
and possibly look into rebound xt as
05-11-2005, 11:10 AM
Hey man I am new to this. Isn't HCG injected as well? What risk do I take my opting not to take HCG and taking Clmid after the cycle?
05-11-2005, 11:14 AM
well you HAVE to do PCT with either clomid or nolva (or perhaps rebound xt) .. that isn't an option .. HCG during the cycle will make for an easier transition and recovery as well as keep your balls full during cycle
and yes its injected but you can do it sub-q with a slin pin .. its completely painless
if you are new to this i suggest doing a TON more research and also making your first cycle test only .. you have no idea how you react to AAS and what they do to you individually .. 500mg of test a week should be plenty for a virgin AAS user to grow off of provided they have a proper diet and training .. tren is not a newbie drug by any means .. have people used it on a first cycle? sure .. is it recommened? nope
05-11-2005, 11:27 AM
Glen, you seem to have quite a bit of knowledge on Tren. I will prob be starting a cycle in June of tren, prop and proviron. The tren at 75 mg EOD, prop @ 75-100 EOD, with proviron @ 25 mg ED, and run for 6 weeks with nolva and/or RXT at end.
I am interested in your mentioning of hcg during and after. Would it be sufficient to only use it after? Ina the past, hcg gave me some bloat, and I cannot have that on this cycle. I know the test dosage is low, but the tren is not high and the proviron should also help with mood, irritability, etc.... I have not used tren before, but have used eq, deca, sust, primo, winny, and dbol.
Also, I have quite a bit of M4OHN laying around. How could I fit this into the cycle?
05-11-2005, 11:31 AM
i don't know ANYTHING about m4ohn .. i've never found that HCG bloats me at all .. don't use it post cycle though .. it is suppressive .. i personally would run at least 100mg of prop eod
i should state i haven't personally used tren yet .. i've only done a ton of research and heard anectodal evidence .. beelze and exnihilo love the stuff .. i'm sure they'll chime in
05-11-2005, 11:33 AM
Glen this will be my 2nd cycle. The first, and don't think I'm nuts, was Tren only. Problem was I did a bad thing during the cycle and really screwed it up. I was completely new to it and mu supplier gave me the needles and syringe. I thought the syring was a 1 CC syringe. It was actually a 3 CC syringe and I did a 3 CC shot of Tren at one time. That took up a lot of the 10 CCs I had and cut my cycle short. I was also advised to lay off of it for 3 weeks when I hit 3 CCs. So to make a long story short I don't feel like I benefited very well from my first cycle being only a 6 week cycle with 2 weeks taking nothing.
THis time I am a "little" more knowledgeable about it and feel more comfortable doing the shots. I plan to take Clomid and Trib PCT but nothing during unless I do Milk Thisle ED during.
Glen one more question. It will be 3 weeks before my Test Cyp will be available, however I can get the Test En today. Would it be ok to start with Test En and switch to Test Cyp during the cycle?
05-11-2005, 11:46 AM
Cool. The insomnia worries me a bit. Also, how is tren on liver and cholesterol values adn the ol' kidneys? I know the proviron and prop will not be all that bad on either. If you look at some other posts, I recently opted not to do a SD and MaxLMG cycle over this. I feel that the former would be a better cutter, and the compunds have been researched for a longer period of time.Originally Posted by glenihan
05-11-2005, 11:52 AM
I'd like to add that tren alone can give you good gains if run correctly.(not to say that the test won't compliment it) I have run it alone more times than I remember and always got alot out of it. (A few years back for various reasons, it was all I could get my hands on). I never got fina dick from it, and alot of people don't, but everyone is different. Glen was correct with all the sides, and in my experience, the irritability was by far the worst. It's controllable, but you always kinda feel annoyed for no reason. 75mgs/eod is a great dose to start at. I still don't use more than 75mgs/day, and it remains effective.
05-11-2005, 11:56 AM
m4ohn would be useful as a CNS stimulant during your cycle. it gives a general feeling of well-being and is one of my favorite compounds. i used it at 40mg/QD standalone; in a cycle that much wouldn't really be necessary. you could probably get away with 25-30mg/QD. it will help alot with overall mood. it is more of a cutter than a bulker though. i found dropping weight with a caloric restriction was easier than gaining with a calorie surplus.
05-11-2005, 12:23 PM
you could so long as you have enough to run 500mg a week throughout .. you won't notice a difference between the two esters ... i personally would wait until i have everything, but that's meOriginally Posted by atlbrvfan
05-11-2005, 12:24 PM
well you are kind of wrong there .. as test does have a negative impact on cholesterol .. some claim that tren has thrown off their liver values .. aas in general should not affect ones kidneys .. most kidney problems in this sport are a result of too much protein with not enough water and/or abuse of loop diuretics (i.e. lasix)Originally Posted by Max32
05-11-2005, 12:27 PM
tren does elevate liver values but it's nothing worth worrying about. just keep your water intake high and stay away from alcohol. 75mg eod is a common first time usage of tren, it should work nicely. for me, i didn't really feel trenace kicking in until around week 3, so i personally wouldn't run it for any shorter period than 8 weeks. YMMV.Originally Posted by Max32
05-11-2005, 01:42 PM
05-11-2005, 01:57 PM
Yeah, I get in at least 1 gallon of water a day, and supp NAC, milk thistle, policanasol, fish oil, GXR and sesathin yr round. Granted, I usually drink 1, maybe 2, nights a week . My concerns with the cholesterol is bc I plan on running a NHA stack of activaTE, rebound XT and cissus before the cycle. Inherent problem here is with the possibility of raised cholesterol values from the RXT, though I will only be using 2 caps / day. Again, I cannot imagine the tren being worse on liver values than superdrol, but maybe I am mistaken.....Originally Posted by glenihan
I will be using the cycle to prepare me for a photo shoot mid summer. Other than nolva @ 60/40/20/20, any other advice on PCT?
05-11-2005, 02:20 PM
yeah don't drink while on cycle .. not only can it be dangerous but its completely counter productive
05-11-2005, 02:27 PM
I agree, but I really do not see much of a problem in moderation. Sometimes, I wonder how my liver made it through collegeOriginally Posted by glenihan
05-11-2005, 02:28 PM
Couple more questions Glen and BTW thanks again for the help. Should I lay off Creatine Ester Ethyl while on my cycle? Should I keep taking in 3-5 protein drinks a day?
Also this is my plan.
Weeks 1-5 Test En. 500 mg per week
Weeks 6-10 Test Cyp. 500 per week.
Weeks 3-8 Tren 80. mg EOD
Is it ok to not take HCG during this and start clomid and trib after?
05-11-2005, 02:37 PM
At what dose? Running low-dose hCG throughout your cycle (250iu EOD or thereabouts) should give you next to no aromatase activity.Originally Posted by Max32
05-11-2005, 02:42 PM
Real food is better than shakes. Try to limit your shakes to pre/post workout, and eat real food (chicken, tuna, low-fat or ff cottage cheese) the rest of the day.Originally Posted by atlbrvfan
This cycle will shut you down pretty hard. hCG will make recovery much friendlier.Is it ok to not take HCG during this and start clomid and trib after?
Clomid is fine, but Nolva is better IMHO. Make sure to have one or the other (or both) on hand before you start your cycle.
05-11-2005, 03:05 PM
CEE is fine, though I would save $$ and use supps for PCT and bridging. Also, I am one of the few that actually liked trib in the past in the form of tribestan, but there are many other options now such as activaTE and cissus. And by all means, eat, eat,eat and eat some more CLEAN food while on. I eat every 2 hours, yr round.Originally Posted by atlbrvfan
05-11-2005, 03:07 PM
So, you advocate running low dose HCG throughout the 6 week cycle? If so, would 250 mg every third day be sufficient?Originally Posted by kwantam
05-11-2005, 03:44 PM
05-11-2005, 03:48 PM
Am I ok doing the cycle listed above without taking HCG? Will Clomid get me where I need to be in PCT? Also would it hurt to take D-BOL on that cycle as well?
05-11-2005, 04:05 PM
05-11-2005, 04:06 PM
05-11-2005, 04:17 PM
no .. there is absolutely nothing wrong with adding dbol .. test, tren, and dbol is a very common cycle
you don't NEED HCG .. its just a good idea
05-11-2005, 04:18 PM
05-11-2005, 04:20 PM
05-11-2005, 04:46 PM
Will probably only run it for 3-4 weeks.
What kind of gains would you think I can expect from Tren, Test, and D-Bol.?
05-11-2005, 05:00 PM
05-12-2005, 09:29 AM
05-13-2005, 01:45 PM
for the insomnia, use 2-3g of phenibut w/ 50mg of benedryl and you will sleep thru anythingOriginally Posted by Max32
05-13-2005, 06:53 PM
To help use all the usual pain reduction techniques. Heat the oil beforehand.....massage well and/or heating pad. Keep the needle and hand steady etc.Originally Posted by atlbrvfan
However, what I find the most effective is to pin about an hour before working out that muscle. Ie do it on legs day. Gets the blood flowing much better and thus, little to no soreness.
05-16-2005, 09:47 AM
Sounds good. I actually did my second shot this morning before work. I worked legs yesterday. I did massage it for a couple minutes after and then a hot shower with the hot water running on the injection sight. I feel great right now. Legs are sore from the workout yesterday but not eggected from the injection.
Oh yeah, is it normal to have already gained weight after only 1 shot?
05-17-2005, 12:28 PM
05-17-2005, 01:09 PM
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