Pinned through a vein

[clk]

So I pinned yesterday evening and think I went straight through a vein. My gf was staying the night, so I pinned in the restroom while I was "showering". I usually have a pretty strict ritual as to how I do it. Last night I was a little rushed though. I pinned my left thigh into the vastus lateralis about 6-8" superior of the knee. After I pulled the pin, it bled pretty good. I applied pressure and it stopped bleeding within a couple minutes. After really looking at the spot, there is a superficial vein that I went straight through. Today there's a tad bit of bruising but not much.
Has anyone ever had this happen?

 

[Burnfire]

I have heard of people going through a vein with the pinn. Did you inject what was in the syringe or pull it out?

 

[criticalbench]

It can happen, there isn't a thing in the world to worry about. It's a blown vein, you may have a little bruising at most.

 

[clk]

I have heard of people going through a vein with the pinn. Did you inject what was in the syringe or pull it out?

Yea I injected. I didn't know it went through the vein until I pulled it out. It was just like every other pin before. Except it was a nice run of blood after I pulled it instead of a dot of blood lol

 

[clk]

It can happen, there isn't a thing in the world to worry about. It's a blown vein, you may have a little bruising at most.

That's what I figured. I was initially a little worried. But after thinking about it for a couple minutes, I stopped worrying. No more than getting blood drawn from a bad phlebotomist if you think about it.

Stupid gf ruining my pinning ritual!!

 

[pogue]

Are you aspirating whenever you inject? As long as it passed through the vein into muscle tissue, you have nothing to worry about. If you didn't aspirate and injected into the vein then that's a problem.

 

[clk]

Are you aspirating whenever you inject? As long as it passed through the vein into muscle tissue, you have nothing to worry about. If you didn't aspirate and injected into the vein then that's a problem.

No I dont. There really is no need to aspirate the sites I normally pin as they are only superficially vascular. I made the mistake of hitting a superficial vein because I was rushed and pinned a little too distal on the muscle.

 

[pogue]

No I dont. There really is no need to aspirate the sites I normally pin as they are only superficially vascular. I made the mistake of hitting a superficial vein because I was rushed and pinned a little too distal on the muscle.

You should ALWAYS aspirate. Just the fact that blood came out after you pulled the needle out should be an obvious sign that you're injecting into areas with a high concentration of veins. It takes like two seconds to pull the plunger back and aspirate and can save your life. If you get oil into your heart and lungs it can potentially be deadly.

 

[2kvette]

You should ALWAYS aspirate. Just the fact that blood came out after you pulled the needle out should be an obvious sign that you're injecting into areas with a high concentration of veins. It takes like two seconds to pull the plunger back and aspirate and can save your life. If you get oil into your heart and lungs it can potentially be deadly.

Yes, the CDC's injection guideline's no longer recommend aspirating, but they're written mostly in terms of immunizations which are always water based whenever I've given them, so there is no need to aspirate. Always always always aspirate, if you don't, you run the risk of causing an infarction in a tissue, which can then possibly become ischemic. Aspirating eliminates this risk. Vein's are mostly superficial so that is exactly what you did, nicked a vein, but arteries typically run deep in tissues. Injecting in one of these deep arteries is not good, oil doesn't carry O2 nearly as well as an RBC.

 

[cheftepesh1]

A far as the vein I did that all the time when I took B12 shots and as you stated sucks. Just a small bruise which goes away fairly quick. As far as aspirating I would as it keeps you safer.

 

[Rocket3015]

It will be fine!

 

[fueledpassion]

Yea I injected. I didn't know it went through the vein until I pulled it out. It was just like every other pin before. Except it was a nice run of blood after I pulled it instead of a dot of blood lol

You didn't inject any oil in the vein, just penetrated the vein and probably went past it. If you get any significant amount of oil in the vein, you will know instantly. Pretty much for the next several minutes you will resemble death warmed over, sweating, feverish, coughing profusely, etc.

 

[clk]

You should ALWAYS aspirate. Just the fact that blood came out after you pulled the needle out should be an obvious sign that you're injecting into areas with a high concentration of veins. It takes like two seconds to pull the plunger back and aspirate and can save your life. If you get oil into your heart and lungs it can potentially be deadly.

I understand. I'm in nursing school and we have been taught that many places in the body don't really require it. But i guess it couldn't hurt. As far as the blood goes while removing the needle, that's simply from capillaries. Everywhere you're going to inject has them. No way around that.

 

[clk]

Yes, the CDC's injection guideline's no longer recommend aspirating, but they're written mostly in terms of immunizations which are always water based whenever I've given them, so there is no need to aspirate. Always always always aspirate, if you don't, you run the risk of causing an infarction in a tissue, which can then possibly become ischemic. Aspirating eliminates this risk. Vein's are mostly superficial so that is exactly what you did, nicked a vein, but arteries typically run deep in tissues. Injecting in one of these deep arteries is not good, oil doesn't carry O2 nearly as well as an RBC.

Very valid point.

 

[criticalbench]

You should ALWAYS aspirate. Just the fact that blood came out after you pulled the needle out should be an obvious sign that you're injecting into areas with a high concentration of veins. It takes like two seconds to pull the plunger back and aspirate and can save your life. If you get oil into your heart and lungs it can potentially be deadly.

I place IVs all the time.. I work in the medical professor. Unless you angle a needle at a 15-30 degree angle depending on the depth of the vein, you are never going to slide a needle into a vein to actually inject something that will get systemically transported around the body.

With that being said, even if you tried with a needle to do so, it would be damn near impossible as we do not use needles with over the top catheters. You are not going to place a needle into the lumen of the vein, only a plastic catheter will migrate in.

IVs are placed by a plastic catheter, the needle is strictly used to break the skin and retracted rather fast once a vein shows blood flash back.

 

[2kvette]

Just as I posted on this thread; I too hit my first vein or artery maybe in 7 years of pinning yesterday.

 

[criticalbench]

Yes, the CDC's injection guideline's no longer recommend aspirating, but they're written mostly in terms of immunizations which are always water based whenever I've given them, so there is no need to aspirate. Always always always aspirate, if you don't, you run the risk of causing an infarction in a tissue, which can then possibly become ischemic. Aspirating eliminates this risk. Vein's are mostly superficial so that is exactly what you did, nicked a vein, but arteries typically run deep in tissues. Injecting in one of these deep arteries is not good, oil doesn't carry O2 nearly as well as an RBC.

Arteries do not always run deep, the brachial artery and radial artery I draw from all the time and are rather superficial.

You are going to have one hell of a time infusing an oil into an artery with its MAP resistance of 70-100.

If you have ever handled arterial lines and pressure fluids, you would see the force exerted outward by arterial vessels.

 

[criticalbench]

Just as I posted on this thread; I too hit my first vein or artery maybe in 7 years of pinning yesterday.

Lol I place my own iv into my arm for shows if I pull to much water with diuretics and flatten out.. Never realized how common this was among bodybuilders until I mentioned it to someone.

Rookie!! Haha

 

[criticalbench]

You should ALWAYS aspirate. Just the fact that blood came out after you pulled the needle out should be an obvious sign that you're injecting into areas with a high concentration of veins. It takes like two seconds to pull the plunger back and aspirate and can save your life. If you get oil into your heart and lungs it can potentially be deadly.

Aspirating does only take 1 second though.. So I could agree here.

 

[2kvette]

Arteries do not always run deep, the brachial artery and radial artery I draw from all the time and are rather superficial.

You are going to have one hell of a time infusing an oil into an artery with its MAP resistance of 70-100.

If you have ever handled arterial lines and pressure fluids, you would see the force exerted outward by arterial vessels.

Right, which is why I said "typically" in my post; meaning as a general rule, but not 100% of the time. And no one would ever infuse an oil into an artery, but accidentally injecting in one at 70-100mmhg would be very easy to overcome. I just accidentally did it yesterday for the first time in 7 years; and it ****ing scared the hell out of me when it hit. Checked myself on the oximeter, came back 88%. I made a deal with myself, I was gonna go to the hospital if it didn't start getting better within ten minutes, luckily it did.

 

[2kvette]

Lol I place my own iv into my arm for shows if I pull to much water with diuretics and flatten out.. Never realized how common this was among bodybuilders until I mentioned it to someone.

Rookie!! Haha

Gotta watch those diuretics, nephritis is a bitch. And I'm definitely by no means a rookie.

 

[criticalbench]

Gotta watch those diuretics, nephritis is a bitch. And I'm definitely by no means a rookie.

the rookie comment was a joke bro..

As far as injecting into an artery that you said you did, why in the world would you ever advance a needle for an IM injection at that sort of angle? Makes no sense to me as arteries run parallel.

 

[2kvette]

the rookie comment was a joke bro..

As far as injecting into an artery that you said you did, why in the world would you ever advance a needle for an IM injection at that sort of angle? Makes no sense to me as arteries run parallel.

Oh, okay. Sorry, everyone always told me I never got sarcasim. I went straight 90 degrees into the medial delt, hit that spot a million times. Aspirated, injected slowly 1cc test c. About two or three minutes later, i got the alcohol taste in the back of my throat and nose, lasted about a minute. Stood up and told my brother "I hit a vein, you may have to take me to the ER". Alcohole taste and smell lingered for about an hour afterwards. Heart started pounding, and lasted for about 15min. Felt a little short of breath too, so right after i said that to my brother I grabbed an oximeter which reported my saturation at 88%. So I figured if it didn't show signs of improving in ten minutes, my brother was gonna take me to the ER. So I just sat there and rode it out and luckily it got better, and completely resolved about two hours later.

I just can't figure out how I did it either. I pushed back a little on the syringe plunger to aspirate, I was using a 1 inch 23g, which I pushed in until the needle was deep enough to where only that little white glue stuff was left out. Only thing I can figure is I may have been sitting right above a vein or artery. So when I began pushing the plunger it went just a little bit deeper and finally pierced the vein/artery.

 

[criticalbench]

Oh, okay. Sorry, everyone always told me I never got sarcasim. I went straight 90 degrees into the medial delt, hit that spot a million times. Aspirated, injected slowly 1cc test c. About two or three minutes later, i got the alcohol taste in the back of my throat and nose, lasted about a minute. Stood up and told my brother "I hit a vein, you may have to take me to the ER". Alcohole taste and smell lingered for about an hour afterwards. Heart started pounding, and lasted for about 15min. Felt a little short of breath too, so right after i said that to my brother I grabbed an oximeter which reported my saturation at 88%. So I figured if it didn't show signs of improving in ten minutes, my brother was gonna take me to the ER. So I just sat there and rode it out and luckily it got better, and completely resolved about two hours later.

I just can't figure out how I did it either. I pushed back a little on the syringe plunger to aspirate, I was using a 1 inch 23g, which I pushed in until the needle was deep enough to where only that little white glue stuff was left out. Only thing I can figure is I may have been sitting right above a vein or artery. So when I began pushing the plunger it went just a little bit deeper and finally pierced the vein/artery.

Def interesting bro, sounds more like a histamine reaction that can occur at any time, especially trauma from needle insertion and produce symptoms very similar.

 

[2kvette]

But I pin every week, and how do you explain the strong alcohol taste and smell that hit all at once? This didn't present the way any histamine rxn I've ever seen.

 

[pogue]

I place IVs all the time.. I work in the medical professor. Unless you angle a needle at a 15-30 degree angle depending on the depth of the vein, you are never going to slide a needle into a vein to actually inject something that will get systemically transported around the body.

With that being said, even if you tried with a needle to do so, it would be damn near impossible as we do not use needles with over the top catheters. You are not going to place a needle into the lumen of the vein, only a plastic catheter will migrate in.

IVs are placed by a plastic catheter, the needle is strictly used to break the skin and retracted rather fast once a vein shows blood flash back.

You've pretty much gone over my head here, bro. I've done IV shots before in the arm and ofc had blood draws and I realize how hard you have to angle it and get it right in there to draw the blood or get the fluid in, but isn't the possibility there when you're injecting oil based AAS into a large muscle group you could hit a vein or an artery and if you didn't aspirate start injecting into it without realizing it?

Anyway, my point is, it takes like just a second and better safe than sorry.

Felt a little short of breath too, so right after i said that to my brother I grabbed an oximeter which reported my saturation at 88%.

Is an oximeter a common thing to have around or keep around for some purpose?

 

[2kvette]

Not commonly kept around; but I have one I use for physicals and stuff on clinic days that I just keep in my pocket. So I just happened to have one around. Good thing is if you injected in a vein your O2 saturation will be lower and will show also up on an oximeter and also show slight metabolic acidosis on blood work. So having an oximeter on hand gives you one piece of the diagnostic tools you need to catch an oil embolism.