- 05-04-2005, 07:19 PM
You guys who use prop to kick start a TE cycle, how many prop injections to you do before dropping it ? My plan was to do six ; 75mgs 3X per week for two week , two of those per week with 250 mgs TE , then cut the prop and continue with just the TE 2X a week. I then read on another site that only two prop doses are actually needed when using it as a kick start.
I certainly wouldn't mind cutting the prop loose ASAP as this **** is killing me 24 - 48 hours after the injection ( I'm assuming it's the prop from what I've read from others). It isn't unbearable like some report it is for them but though the actual injections go as smooth as can be, that particular muscle is sore as a bitch two days later .
One other question as this my first pinning cycle ; my soreness isn't exactally where the needle enters like I thought it would be - the tenderness/soreness is always about two inches below that spot so I'm curious why that is ?
Thanks for any feed back.
- 05-04-2005, 07:28 PM
Definately need more prop to keep that jumpstart up, you should feel it for sure by the 2nd or 3rd shot, but you need to continue until thru week 5 of enan, imo...its a bitch to shoot prop but after awhile your muscles get used to it...
- 05-04-2005, 09:02 PM
**** , you're kidding me .... 5 weeks of prop ?? ****, that's not a kick start , that's half the cycle !
Let me ask this then, if I were to do that - and I doubt it ... 500mgs of TE a week PLUS 150-200mgs of Prop comes to 650 - 700 mgs of test a week for my first cycle - isn't that way too much for a first cycle ? I've been reading that a test only first cycle should only be 500 mgs a week.
If one decided to continue the prop for half the cycle like you suggest , do you reduce the TE 300-350 a week ??
05-04-2005, 11:48 PM
05-04-2005, 11:50 PM
no need to kickstart for a first cycle. KISS = keep it simple stupid. you could try dbol for the first 4 weeks though. it's a common first cycle, testenan/dbol.Originally Posted by Crotalus
05-05-2005, 06:49 AM
You're right ... I'm just being impatient doing this for the first time hearing TE will take about four weeks to kick in.Originally Posted by Beelzebub
Dbol is out as it cripples me , just ****ing destroys me with the low back ****. I did it during the winter with a transdermal test and could barely stand at the sink long enough to wash my oatmeal bowl. Dbol isn't even an option anymore.
That was much worse than this prop soreness, though right now I feel like I have schrapnel in my left quad and delt, LOL. I can still workout and function with the prop pain, I couldn't do anything while on Dbol.
I'll finish this first week plan which will have given me three prop shots and two TE , then Monday will be start my Mon/Thurs with just the TE.
Thanks for the help.
05-05-2005, 08:47 AM
I feel like I'm being something of a cheerleader here, but give the ventroglute a shot (...in a manner of speaking...). Even when it gets really sore it won't interfere with your workouts, to first order.Originally Posted by Crotalus
05-05-2005, 11:44 AM
Don't worry about sounding like that to me ... I love the feedback - I'm a **** newbie at this so all the responses are appreciated.Originally Posted by kwantam
I thought about that location as the next spot but was wondering if a 1" syringe would be OK there as I've read an 1 1/2 is needed for your ass. The 1 1/2" loading syringe is too ****ing big for me to be sticking anywhere than in that vial ! I'd rather go down to 135lbs and take up golf than stick my self with that thing , LOL.
I think I'm off the prop kickstart after tomarrows and go with just the TE from there , like Beezlebub said. That was my original intention but was able to grab some prop at the same time and the wheels started turning due to my begginer excitement to see results without having to wait four weeks or so.
KISS has always been my workout philosophy and I suppose it works with gear use as well ... at least for a first timer like me.
05-05-2005, 01:40 PM
I would say for faster "kick in" time of the Test E, frontload it. Save your prop for the end of your cycle when you are letting the longer estered Test E clear, nice smooth transition into PCT..just my 2ccs
05-05-2005, 02:01 PM
1" is plenty for ventroglute. Unless you're pretty fat, 1" should really be enough for dorsoglute, too.I thought about that location as the next spot but was wondering if a 1" syringe would be OK there
I like Neuromancer's suggestion
05-05-2005, 02:25 PM
[QUOTE=kwantam]1" is plenty for ventroglute. Unless you're pretty fat, 1" should really be enough for dorsoglute, too.
No, I'm not fat so I'll give it a try. Was going to try that last night but wondered about the needle length so went with the left quad. The soreness is definately there 24-48 hours later - the side of my arm feels like I got hit with a major league fast ball from my first delt injection - but it hasn't interfered with any workouts or have the quad shots. I'm expecting the soreness to get less the longer I inject, at least that's what I've been told.
The thing about frontloading with the TE is I have just enough TE for 10 weeks at 500mgs/week ( 10ml vial, 500mgs/ml ) but I do have 20 mls of Test cyp ... could that be substituted at the end when I run low on the TE if I decide to frontload the TE ?
But hell, on second thought ... I keep getting further away from the KISS plan ... so I think I'll do one more prop/TE shot tomarrow , then TE the rest of the way for my first time and see what happens.
05-05-2005, 02:28 PM
[QUOTE=Crotalus]definitely the esters are VERY similar and you wouldn't notice a differenceOriginally Posted by kwantam
05-05-2005, 05:08 PM
An enan cycle should be 12 weeks at an absolute minimum. Test enan kicks in at about the 4th or 5 week. Therefore, running prop for 4-5 weeks would simply allow you to have a smooth transition into the enan portion of the cycle. You can also use prop during the last two weeks when you are off the enan to keep your gains going strong right up to PCT.Originally Posted by Crotalus
Like I said before, the enan will only be building up in your system during this time and you will be fine with the prop. I agree 500mgs is a good "starting number," but there are many factors involved...such as your weight (do you know of any drug that isn't prescribed based on weight?) and experience in weightlifting and prohormones.Originally Posted by Crotalus
Read my other replies and this is obviously a no.Originally Posted by Crotalus
05-05-2005, 05:12 PM
HOLY ****ING **** MAN! Now i know why your limping around feeling like you got beat up n ****. That is some high dosed test you got there buddy, you should cut your shot with sterile oil and I bet the pain would go down A TON.Originally Posted by Crotalus
05-05-2005, 06:29 PM
Originally Posted by Boss_K
I've only used the TE once so far ... on Monday morn. I've done the prop three times ( 100mgs/ML ) at 75mgs twice and 100 once with the TE on Monday. I figure it's the prop that's kicking my ass from all the horror stories I read about it.
I don't have sterile oil here now but have test cyp at 300mg/ml . Maybe I should use that for this first cycle ... I figured the 500mg/ml would be great as I'd only need to do 1/2 ml twice a week.
05-05-2005, 06:35 PM
I would try using the test cyp, and shoot it eod day with the prop, use 1 ml prop and .5 ml cyp eod. That will be only 525 mg of cyp/week and the prop wont hurt as bad since its being mixed with the cyp. Do that for the first 4 or 5 weeks and youre good to go.
05-05-2005, 06:36 PM
It would be great, but with high dose gear like that the oil, BA and BB dissapate faster then the TE gets absorbed, leaving you with crystals in your muscle and lots o pain. It very well could be the prop too though.
05-05-2005, 09:36 PM
I'm sure its a combo of the prop (cuz it does hurt for most ppl) and the 500mg/ml enan...i think i know what source thats from, but regardless that is just too high for comfort.
05-09-2005, 09:58 PM
Well, my 'update' on this is I've decided to go with Beezle's suggestion and just stick with a simple , 2x a week shot of Cyp. for 12 weeks. I knew this was what I should have done as a first timer, but my impatience for results and Newbie-excitement of my first injectable cycle had me going for the prop as well. Live and learn - or shoot and learn. I think going for prop in a first pinning cycle is like taking boxing lessons and picking Mike Tyson as a sparring partner.
And Holy **** ... what a difference !! It's now 12 hours since I shot just under 1ML of cyp and still feel absolutely NOTHING as far as pain. If this were the prop , I'd be already limping and my two small dogs jumping up on my lap would have my eyes rolling back in my head from the pain, LOL.
My buddy who got this stuff for me had asked awhile ago if I wanted a 100ml bottle of prop as he was getting it at a price he didn't think he'd see again, so I say OK. ****, I seriously doubt I ever will think about prop again. I can see dealing with the soreness if it were a once a week shot, but EOD for five weeks isn't something I'm willing to deal with.
As far as my 500/ml TE; I just got the oil and vials I need today to tone it down and will when I'm ready for it. Right now , I'll just use this cyp for this cycle.
It's now 7 days since I shot my left deltoid with 1ml of prop and .5 of that high-intensity TE and my arm still feels like I have a chunk of a Coke bottle broken off in it. It's finally starting to feel alot better, LOL, but Fuuuccckkk !!
So thanks for all your responses , suggestions and feedback with this begginners prop-problem. All were very much appreciated.
05-09-2005, 11:28 PM
good decision bro. enjoy the cycle.Originally Posted by Crotalus
05-10-2005, 06:34 AM
One last question ;
I have liquid Nolva and Clomid on hand but my PCT I see is going to be during an international trip I have planned to Central America. I would think tablet form would be better for this than carrying liquid, just due to suspicion, etc.
I don't see anyone of our usual suppliers of this stuff with the tab form of either ; is that something real hard to come by and do you think if my liquid was packed in my check through luggage , all would be OK ? I just don't want them thinking the **** is a liquid explosive , etc. so would rather get tabs if possible.
Last time they took a small 3/8" open end wrench from my camera gear. I guess they hought I'd try and to dismantle the plane at 30,000 feet ... LOL .... but you could still get on with a cigarette lighter.
05-10-2005, 08:35 AM
You will be ok with the liquids, some don't worry about it at all and just carry them as they are in the checked baggage. If you want to hide it a little put it in normal bottles that you would be carrying on a flight, like shampoo or soap. Just make sure you wash them out real goodOriginally Posted by Crotalus
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