Is my pct good enough

[stevestiffler]

Hi guys.
I am looking to do my first ph run and am wondering if my pct is good enough or if I have to ramp it up a bit.
I am looking to do...

Epi 2a3a: 20/20/30/40
Dermacrine: 4 pumps ed
Organ shield: Can double to 2 ed
Tudca: 2 ed
Joint support: 2 ed

PCT
Post cycle 3x: 4/4/4/4
Nolva: unsure of dose
Daa max test booster: 2/2/2/2

27yrs
5ft 9
83kg
Unsure of bf but I presume somewhere around 14-15%

Cheers guys

 

[LeanEngineer]

Personally I would try to get a serm like nolva or clomid. If you don't want to use one of these think about rebirth by BLR. Its an otc serm.

 

[smith_69]

im sure others will add in, but i would throw in a good multi and fishy oil - good ol omega-

 

[3pic_B3ast]

Hi guys.
I am looking to do my first ph run and am wondering if my pct is good enough or if I have to ramp it up a bit.
I am looking to do...

Epi 2a3a:, 20/30/40/40 taper down to 20 by the end of 4th week.
Dermacrine: 4 pumps ed
Taurine: 10g ed
Organ shield for oct
Post cycle 3x for pct 2 morning 2 evening.
Would I need to lower the pct after the 2nd or 3rd week to let natural test production kick in more.
Should I add anything else into the mix

27yrs
5ft 9
83kg
Unsure of bf but I presume somewhere around 14-15%

Cheers guys

As LeanEngineer said definitely get a SERM.

As far as your question on "lowering the pct" if you mean the Post Cycle 3X there is no need to taper this.

On the other hand if you decide to get a SERM (highly recommended) most protocols suggest this to be tapered. Just let us know which SERM you get and we can give you help on dosing. I also agree on getting some omegas and a multi. Another option is a natural anabolic to help maintain gains.

 

[Ape McGrapes]

A pct should look like this

Clomid: 25mg ED or 12.5 EOD for 8 weeks
pharmacutical A.I. or Sustain Alpha: Every day for 12 weeks taperng off
Tongkat Ali: 200-800mg for 12 weeks

Do not cycle without a serm. Do not mess with your hormones without a serm. Learn more about P.C.T. Then learn more.

There's more to cycling than testosterone dropping and then just reboosting it. Too many hormones and bodily processes involved. It's pretty much russian roulette from the very first cycle, with your chances of dying(metaphorically) increasing each time.

Educate yourself, proceed with caution and over all enjoy your cycle.

 

[Ape McGrapes]

Also, get better protection for that liver. Methyls are pretty toxic.

 

[stevestiffler]

Cheers guys I will have a look and pick up a Serm. I already have the fish oils and multi vits. I will also look at a natural anabolic. See what I can get hold off

 

[AntM1564]

Good idea to get the SERM. A natural anabolic you could look into is AlphaMax, it is a great addition to PCT.AlphaMax. It is an all in one product. I would start it two weeks into PCT, run your SERM for 4 weeks, but introduce AlphaMax at the two week mark. Not only will AlphaMax control prolactin, cortisol and estrogen, AlphaMax also contains a full dose of F95 which has been shown to help one increased lean mass and loss fat.

 

[ManimalPatB]

Also, get better protection for that liver. Methyls are pretty toxic.

THIS!!! A liver support/protection is a MUST

 

[stevestiffler]

THIS!!! A liver support/protection is a MUST

What would you recommend on top of organ shield

 

[The_Old_Guy]

What would you recommend on top of organ shield

TUDCA for Methylated DS/PH

 

[stevestiffler]

TUDCA for Methylated DS/PH

Would I run the tudca alongside the organ shield. With regards to a Serm for pct after doing a brief bit of research I think I would prefer clomid as it seems to have less negative effects. Would I just have this on hand if needed during the cycle and use for pct or introduce it while on cycle.

 

[Woody]

Use it after your cycle ends.

 

[Misfit28]

TUDCA for Methylated DS/PH

This. CEL TUDCA or OL TUDCA are good choices.

You need a SERM for PCT, and you might need a good AI as well. Epi is notorious for estrogen rebound.

 

[stevestiffler]

Personally I would try to get a serm like nolva or clomid. If you don't want to use one of these think about rebirth by BLR. Its an otc serm.

Cheers I after doing a bit of research I think that rebirth by BLR would be preferable. I understand that this just let's the good est through and does not reverse the effects of gyno. Would this be used only for pct or should I take this throughout the cycle aswell. Sorry for all the questions just want to get it right first time. Don't want to be one of those people that have to learn from mistakes made.

 

[Woody]

Cheers I after doing a bit of research I think that rebirth by BLR would be preferable. I understand that this just let's the good est through and does not reverse the effects of gyno. Would this be used only for pct or should I take this throughout the cycle aswell. Sorry for all the questions just want to get it right first time. Don't want to be one of those people that have to learn from mistakes made.

Take it when the cycle ends.

I would strongly suggest a pharm grade serm with something like epi

 

[stevestiffler]

Take it when the cycle ends.

I would strongly suggest a pharm grade serm with something like epi

I will look into clomid. I like the thought of rebirth by BLR for the ease of getting hold of it and that it has no side effects

 

[stevestiffler]

OK so I have changed it a bit with the advice from you guys. I am currently looking at:

Epi 2a3a: 20/20/30/40
Dermacrine: 4 pumps ed
Organ shield: Can double to 2 ed
Tudca: 2 ed
Joint support: 2 ed

PCT
Post cycle 3x: 4/4/4/4
Rebirth by BLR: 2/2/1/1
Daa max test booster: 2/2/2/2

I will possibly change the rebirth to clomid if I can get hold of it. At the moment it is far easier for me to get hold of rebirth...

 

[Misfit28]

I will look into clomid. I like the thought of rebirth by BLR for the ease of getting hold of it and that it has no side effects

You will have much worse side effects if you don't get your HPTA fully restarted.

 

[stevestiffler]

You will have much worse side effects if you don't get your HPTA fully restarted.

I will look to get some clomid, if I am able to get hold of it. In that case I would get rid of the rebirth. There are plenty of places selling it online just not sure how reputable they are. What dosage would I need of clomid for pct

 

[stevestiffler]

Would clomid be run at
150/150/100/100/50/50 or is that too long with only a 4 week cycle

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Would clomid be run at
150/150/100/100/50/50 or is that too long with only a 4 week cycle

50/50/25/25 and if desired another 25EOD and even another 25EOD

Personally, I also do Nolva at 20/20/10/10/10EOD/10EOD as well (In which case I don't do the Clomid the last two weeks).

Personal preference, I'm old, paranoid, don't get sides, and SERMs are cheap.

 

[stevestiffler]

Cheers it's a lot lower than I was expecting it to be

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

PLEASE RUN TUDCA, when running a exogenous hormone cycle EVERYTHING gets thrown off. You're interrupting your natural homeostasis. Also i prefer Toremifene Citrate solo run at 120/120/80/40 for PCT stack with a 200:1 TKA extract(true extract not bunk) along with 200mg Laxogenin and epicatechin(DermaStr3ngth and ep1c Unleashed) and then OL Super PCT a long with 100mg coQ10 and 500mg Tudca everything is ED dosing with tapering every week for the serm only. It's expensive but this stack helps you retain most if not all gains/strength (personal experience) and gets your hormones back in shape (Laxogenin helps control Cortisol same with the androsta in super pct)

 

[stevestiffler]

PLEASE RUN TUDCA, when running a exogenous hormone cycle EVERYTHING gets thrown off. You're interrupting your natural homeostasis. Also i prefer Toremifene Citrate solo run at 120/120/80/40 for PCT stack with a 200:1 TKA extract(true extract not bunk) along with 200mg Laxogenin and epicatechin(DermaStr3ngth and ep1c Unleashed) and then OL Super PCT a long with 100mg coQ10 and 500mg Tudca everything is ED dosing with tapering every week for the serm only. It's expensive but this stack helps you retain most if not all gains/strength (personal experience) and gets your hormones back in shape (Laxogenin helps control Cortisol same with the androsta in super pct)

I will be running the Tudca at 500mg ed. As for the rest I will have a look and do a bit of research.

 

[stevestiffler]

You should spent All Day googling Chemists. I've heard there are some good ones out there.

I'm off work with a torn tendon at the moment. Waiting for that to heal before I start. So that's what I have been doing today. I have found 2 that I think have good enough reviews to warrant buying from. After a bit of research I am in favour of clomid even though it is slightly more expensive.

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

I'm off work with a torn tendon at the moment. Waiting for that to heal before I start. So that's what I have been doing today. I have found 2 that I think have good enough reviews to warrant buying from. After a bit of research I am in favour of clomid even though it is slightly more expensive.

Clomid has the most complaints towards emotional mood swings... so if you're prone reconsider. I've used Nolda/clomid pct and then ive run torem solo after a 6 week sarm run and the torem pct did me better on sides and my balls came back in 3-4 days

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I don't think my hint could have gotten much better lol

You could have Bolded certain words

 

[stevestiffler]

I don't think my hint could have gotten much better lol

I got you. I browsed passed there but they seemed very cheap compared to any where else I have seen.

You could have Bolded certain words

 

[Woody]

I got you. I browsed passed there but they seemed very cheap compared to any where else I have seen.

They are pharma grade and legit. Takes a few weeks so plan ahead
The_Old_Guy I thought about that but caps is easier on mobile.

 

[Ape McGrapes]

Would clomid be run at
150/150/100/100/50/50 or is that too long with only a 4 week cycle

Do not run clomid that high. Their is a point of diminishing returns, and an increase in side effects. Serms should be run lower dose for longer periods, as apposed to higher doses. There's no evidence that 50mg will boost your test any higher than 25mg. The longer your cycle, the longer your PCT should be. See my earlier post for proper serm dosing.

Serms attach to and saturate estrogen receptors in specific tissue, preventing estrogen from doing so. The down side is that now all this unattached estrogen just floods your blood stream. Stop the serm, and all that built up estrogen will swarm those open receptors. This is the dreaded estrogen rebound, also responsible for rebound gyno. This is the importance of running an aromatase inhibitor durring and tapering off after PCT. Keep that excess estrogen in check.

Test booster of your choice from here. Tongkat is scientifically proven, so a smart choice, but I also like Fadogia myself. Up to you.


Sustain Alpha will blow rebirth out of the water. It is the next best thing to a serm (OTC wise) and will also cover the aspect of your AI. Use with, or without clomid, but the later really shouldn't even be a viable option.

 

[LiveToLift]

Hi guys.
I am looking to do my first ph run and am wondering if my pct is good enough or if I have to ramp it up a bit.
I am looking to do...

Epi 2a3a:, 20/30/40/40 taper down to 20 by the end of 4th week.
Dermacrine: 4 pumps ed
Taurine: 10g ed
Organ shield for oct
Post cycle 3x for pct 2 morning 2 evening.
Would I need to lower the pct after the 2nd or 3rd week to let natural test production kick in more.
Should I add anything else into the mix

27yrs
5ft 9
83kg
Unsure of bf but I presume somewhere around 14-15%

Cheers guys

What is your pct? Lol In my opinion i think research will do you good before starting. PCT is very important in the big scheme of things. My pct always ends up costing more than my actual cycle. Yours seems pretty tame and missing essentials.

No need to taper at all either. Go into pct at your highest point of your cycle.

Also the saying no serm no cycle comes in handy here. I would personally throw in clomid and erase pro and something that contains creatine. Ergonine is always in my cruise state for that and other essentials to keep me feeling king in the gym when it almost feels I'm anything but.

 

[mw1]

OP if you are going to use Organ shield then I would recommend double dosing it....read the profile and directions very close

 

[LiveToLift]

OP if you are going to use Organ shield then I would recommend double dosing it....read the profile and directions very close

Insert PCT assist plug.
Used and love both products.

 

[stevestiffler]

What is your pct? Lol In my opinion i think research will do you good before starting. PCT is very important in the big scheme of things. My pct always ends up costing more than my actual cycle. Yours seems pretty tame and missing essentials.

No need to taper at all either. Go into pct at your highest point of your cycle.

Also the saying no serm no cycle comes in handy here. I would personally throw in clomid and erase pro and something that contains creatine. Ergonine is always in my cruise state for that and other essentials to keep me feeling king in the gym when it almost feels I'm anything but.

Cheers for the input. I did alter but was half way through the post. My pct has changed quite a but. Including nolva now and also have added tudca to the cycle

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

Cheers for the input. I did alter but was half way through the post. My pct has changed quite a but. Including nolva now and also have added tudca to the cycle

Toremifene Citrate is the better option than traditional Nolva/Clomid less liver toxic same results in PCT no emotional sides once daily dosage it's my go to. Stack it with TA and some natty T-Booster to keep your alpha feeling in the gym, just personal preference and something i recommend looking in to.

 

[LiveToLift]

Cheers for the input. I did alter but was half way through the post. My pct has changed quite a but. Including nolva now and also have added tudca to the cycle

Good deal I didn't scroll through the entire thread just wanted to give some input from your initial post. Happy cycling!

 

[stevestiffler]

Good deal I didn't scroll through the entire thread just wanted to give some input from your initial post. Happy cycling!

Cheers bud. It's helpful with all input from you guys who have done this numerous times. I have been debating it for a while but wanted to put some more natural muscle on before running a cycle. Which I have been working on over the last 12 months. I'm not sure about my bf% I'm assuming it to be around 13-14-15% I know this will lower my bf%. Not significantly but by a couple of %. Thanks again for the input. Does the revised plan look a lot better.

 

[stevestiffler]

Toremifene Citrate is the better option than traditional Nolva/Clomid less liver toxic same results in PCT no emotional sides once daily dosage it's my go to. Stack it with TA and some natty T-Booster to keep your alpha feeling in the gym, just personal preference and something i recommend looking in to.

I did have a look but where I would get nolva or clomid from I am not able to at the moment with toremifene. Which would kind of rule it out I'm afraid. If I am able to get somewhere that has It I will do a bit of research on it and see if it's a better option. Cheers bud

 

[LiveToLift]

Cheers bud. It's helpful with all input from you guys who have done this numerous times. I have been debating it for a while but wanted to put some more natural muscle on before running a cycle. Which I have been working on over the last 12 months. I'm not sure about my bf% I'm assuming it to be around 13-14-15% I know this will lower my bf%. Not significantly but by a couple of %. Thanks again for the input. Does the revised plan look a lot better.

The revised is most definitely an improvement. DAA and a serm are in my eyes a must. Good luck with the cycle bro.

 

[stevestiffler]

How much nolva would I need on this. Would
20/20/10/10/10eod/10eod

 

[The_Old_Guy]

How much nolva would I need on this. Would
20/20/10/10/10eod/10eod

That's what I'd do - but are you doing Nolva only, or Clomid too?

 

[stevestiffler]

Nolva I was going to do nolva only but am using post cycle 3x aswell. Would it be better to run clomid alongside

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Nolva I was going to do nolva only but am using post cycle 3x aswell. Would it be better to run clomid alongside

PCT has as many opinions about it as 9mm vs .45. I err on the side of caution and go with what some smart guys (IMO) on here have recommended - which has been based on what doctor's like Scally et. al. have recommended: Clomid & Nolva. I also do a total of 6 weeks (last two Nolva only EOD), and I will do that for even 15mg of MK-2866 - some will call it overkill but it works for me.

 

[stevestiffler]

That's fine. It's better to be safe than sorry. Il grab some clomid at the same point as the nolva. How much clomid would you run with it

 

[The_Old_Guy]

That's fine. It's better to be safe than sorry. Il grab some clomid at the same point as the nolva. How much clomid would you run with it

Depends on your source, and how much you want to fiddle with the graduations on a 1ml Syringe. The standard 50/50/25/25 is fine. 40/40/20/20 would be too. Different suppliers (assuming you don't get Rx Tablets) have different Milligrams per Milliliter.

 

[stevestiffler]

If I did clomid it would be fertomid (clomiphene citrate) 25mg

 

[cokeholio]

I plan on running something like this, probably gonna go with Torem RC style, my problem is DAA not sure if I'm crazy but I really don't like the stuff, I'm all in for serm, creatine, pct in a bottle, all there. I can even grab erase to have on deck. But what can I do about the DAA?

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I plan on running something like this, probably gonna go with Torem RC style, my problem is DAA not sure if I'm crazy but I really don't like the stuff, I'm all in for serm, creatine, pct in a bottle, all there. I can even grab erase to have on deck. But what can I do about the DAA?

A SERM raises your T level to the top of the range, why would you need anything else sub-par?

 

[cokeholio]

A SERM raises your T level to the top of the range, why would you need anything else sub-par?

Do you mean going with Torem instead of Nolva and Clomid?