Best prohormone for Strength and size???

[Austinstarkey]

Stats
5'10 170
255 bench, 405 squat, 425 deadlift, 235 power clean.

I'm looking to start my first pH.I've taken 1 and 4 andro and got minimal results so looking for something a little stronger. I have a weight meet coming up soon and want to increase strength and get mostly dry gains. What would you suggest for a cycle. I've looked at rpn havoc, fusion extreme mass, delta force mega mass, or tr3n. Which out of these would be the best? Or would you suggest something else? Thanks for your time.

 

[jakelocker93]

Msten or tren are both great for strength. But if you want to slowly get into the big PHs, epistane is good for your next cycle IMO. Gives some decent strength. And I personally like it more than andros

 

[LeanEngineer]

When I think of strength and size I think of a dmz or msten based ph.

 

[jakelocker93]

^yessir

 

[LG Sciences]

Try 1-andro at 300mg per day.

 

[mw1]

DMZ for sure

 

[LG Sciences]

Why take something unnatural and synthetic to the body when you can take hormones that are there to work with your body to fight stresses and increase mass...

 

[Duywayne]

Unfortunately a lot of those hormones are no longer available. Try out the 4-DHEA and 1-DHEA stacks that are out there.

 

[ManimalPatB]

Why take something unnatural and synthetic to the body when you can take hormones that are there to work with your body to fight stresses and increase mass...

This right here!!! LG has a FANTASTIC line that you can check out

 

[yates84]

Op already stated that he tried 1 and 4 andro with minimal results. I agree that msten or dmz would be more of what you are looking for.

 

[NurseGray]

Op already stated that he tried 1 and 4 andro with minimal results. I agree that msten or dmz would be more of what you are looking for.

With the new delivery system in place there is a good chance he could have far better results than before. I would still check out the Bulk Andro Kit by LG Sciences.

 

[LG Sciences]

I think that it's really a matter of dosing. I would up the bergamottin to be honest. That stuff makes a real difference for fast metabolizers.

 

[VaughnTrue]

Try 1-andro at 300mg per day.

Why take something unnatural and synthetic to the body when you can take hormones that are there to work with your body to fight stresses and increase mass...

Unfortunately a lot of those hormones are no longer available. Try out the 4-DHEA and 1-DHEA stacks that are out there.

This right here!!! LG has a FANTASTIC line that you can check out

The 1-andro with the cyclosome delivery really is a serious compound. User results are astounding

Op already stated that he tried 1 and 4 andro with minimal results. I agree that msten or dmz would be more of what you are looking for.

the Texas A&M study showed users gaining ~9lbs of LBM in 4-6 weeks using this compound(without any additional delivery system mind you)...if a compound like this isn't working, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess its not so much that compound that isn't working, but ones diet/training

 

[yates84]

The 1-andro with the cyclosome delivery really is a serious compound. User results are astounding



the Texas A&M study showed users gaining ~9lbs of LBM in 4-6 weeks using this compound(without any additional delivery system mind you)...if a compound like this isn't working, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess its not so much that compound that isn't working, but ones diet/training

I believe I posted those study results in my andros users guide, I'm very aware of the study results. The op still specifically stated that he wanted to use something other than 1,4 andro for his next run. You should respect his wishes.

 

[VaughnTrue]

I believe I posted those study results in my andros users guide, I'm very aware of the study results. The op still specifically stated that he wanted to use something other than 1,4 andro for his next run. You should respect his wishes.

I appreciate the insight into how to be a rep, I'll put it in my file and make sure to check it out from time to time to make sure I'm on your level



Maybe the best suggestion here then would be to help him fortify his diet and training, since an apparently very powerful compound isn't producing results. Wouldn't that be the BEST way to "respect his wishes"?

 

[NurseGray]

I'm looking to start my first pH.I've taken 1 and 4 andro and got minimal results so looking for something a little stronger.

Well OP states he's looking to start his FIRST PH but then states he's used 1 and 4 Andro. Not sure if this is a typo or if he isn't entirely sure of what he has been using?

 

[Austinstarkey]

Has anyone tried black label supersten? What would be good pct if needed?

 

[VaughnTrue]

Has anyone tried black label supersten? What would be good pct if needed?

what is your height/weight and diet/training currently?

It sounds like you have very very little knowledge about hormones, but are looking to take some incredibly dangerous ones, yet you don't have info on PCT yet...sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

 

[dustter]

ep15tane by OL will yield great results from reviews/logs

 

[yates84]

I appreciate the insight into how to be a rep, I'll put it in my file and make sure to check it out from time to time to make sure I'm on your level



Maybe the best suggestion here then would be to help him fortify his diet and training, since an apparently very powerful compound isn't producing results. Wouldn't that be the BEST way to "respect his wishes"?

If that's the best way to respect his wishes then we ALL missed the boat. But like NurseGray said, we have no clue what he took previously to determine his subpar results.

 

[NurseGray]

To sum everything up. Ask away. Everyone is here to help. Putting aside being a "Rep". We can all agree that if you think you have done enough research. Chances are you haven't yet. There are multiple statements being made here on some pretty basic knowledge of PH and proper cycles. Search the forum for any info you can before you make any decision on what you take next. I just don't want you to get hurt.

 

[Austinstarkey]

I just added the wrong thing to your rep lol I meant to say the first this year. And with all the bans I wanted to know the best? I thought about order from the UK if I found something I liked.?

 

[yates84]

Stats
5'10 170
255 bench, 405 squat, 425 deadlift, 235 power clean.

I'm looking to start my first pH.I've taken 1 and 4 andro and got minimal results so looking for something a little stronger. I have a weight meet coming up soon and want to increase strength and get mostly dry gains. What would you suggest for a cycle. I've looked at rpn havoc, fusion extreme mass, delta force mega mass, or tr3n. Which out of these would be the best? Or would you suggest something else? Thanks for your time.

Its obvious that you know how to lift and eat properly, your lifts are solid. These guys are right, ph/ds can be dangerous if not used properly. Pct is very important, more so than your cycle tbh. Here's some pct info:http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/276620-post-cycle-therapy.html
If you need anything or want to talk about what you're actually interested in then feel free to pm me. I'm outta here.

 

[VaughnTrue]

I just added the wrong thing to your rep lol I meant to say the first thus year. And with all the bans I wanted to know the best? I thought about order from the UK if I found something I liked.?

as of now, the ONLY legal(and not banned) hormones on the market are those sold and/or manufactured by HiTech which include the 1-dhea/4-dhea and various other isomers.

While other fly by night companies are releasing "prohormones" they are in fact designer steroids, and are banned outright.

 

[Austinstarkey]

5'10 170-175 lift 3 hours of a day high protein diet and I need to decide what type of pH before buying pct.?

 

[VaughnTrue]

5'10 170-175 lift 3 hours of a day high protein diet and I need to decide what type of pH before buying pct.?

OK...here goes.

at 5'10 and 170-175lbs, you have a LOT of room to fill out yet, absolutely within the natural realm. That said, if you want to use anabolics, thats your choice and I don't blame you one bit. I know I touched hormones before I "maxed out" my natural potential.

"a high protein diet" doesn't really tell us much. How many g/day are you consuming? What about cards/fats? While many people think they're following a great diet, 99.9% of the time there are numerous easy ways to improve upon it, which will make gains come much more rapidly.


I think PCT's should almost always be the same, be it a mild cycle or an intense one, simply because that's what has worked best for me in my life. Common suggestions for PCT would be nolva/clomid, and those absolutely will work/help.

I have also seen end users use OTC products, and have tremendous results are well. For example:

This user ran a cycle of superdrol, epi, and transaderm...so a pretty serious oral only cycle.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/197883-bringing-boys-back-5.html#post3368627

Final results:

Day 1 PCT
Test: 279 ng/dl (300-1000 normal, starting before cycle was 857 ng/dl)
Estradiol: 22.9 pg/ml (14-55 normal)
FSH: 1.7 mIU/ml (1.5-12 normal)
LH: 1.6 (2-8.6 normal)

Day 8 PCT
Test: 439 ng/dl (300-1000 normal)
Estradiol: 29 pg/ml (14-55 normal)
FSH: 3.1 mIU/ml (1.5-12 normal)
LH: 4.2 (2-8.6 normal)

Day 15 PCT
Test: 601 ng/dl (300-1000 normal)
Estradiol: 37.1 pg/ml (14-55 normal)
FSH: 5.1 mIU/ml (1.5-12 normal)
LH: 8.1 (2-8.6 normal)

Day 22 PCT
Test: 769 ng/dl (300-1000 normal)
Estradiol: 32.6 pg/ml (14-55 normal)
FSH: 6.3 mIU/ml (1.5-12 normal)
LH: 8.7 (2-8.6 normal)
Free Testosterone: 20.4 (9-30 ng/dL normal)


Day 29 PCT FINAL BLOOD
Test: 879 ng/dl (300-1000 normal)
Estradiol: 26.9 pg/ml (14-55 normal)
FSH: 6.8 mIU/ml (1.5-12 normal)
LH: 6.2 (2-8.6 normal)
Free Testosterone: 22.7 (9-30 ng/dL normal)

Testosterone increase in 29 days: 315%
FSH increase in 29 days: 400%
LH increase in 29 days: 387.5%

 

[Austinstarkey]

Thank you everyone for your input, but only a few have actually answered my question... what pH gives the most strength and dry gains? Please put what your cycle would look like and the brand of the pH so I can decide?

 

[Smont]

OK...here goes.

at 5'10 and 170-175lbs, you have a LOT of room to fill out yet, absolutely within the natural realm. That said, if you want to use anabolics, thats your choice and I don't blame you one bit. I know I touched hormones before I "maxed out" my natural potential.

"a high protein diet" doesn't really tell us much. How many g/day are you consuming? What about cards/fats? While many people think they're following a great diet, 99.9% of the time there are numerous easy ways to improve upon it, which will make gains come much more rapidly.


I think PCT's should almost always be the same, be it a mild cycle or an intense one, simply because that's what has worked best for me in my life. Common suggestions for PCT would be nolva/clomid, and those absolutely will work/help.

I have also seen end users use OTC products, and have tremendous results are well. For example:

This user ran a cycle of superdrol, epi, and transaderm...so a pretty serious oral only cycle.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/197883-bringing-boys-back-5.html#post3368627

Final results:

Day 1 PCT
Test: 279 ng/dl (300-1000 normal, starting before cycle was 857 ng/dl)
Estradiol: 22.9 pg/ml (14-55 normal)
FSH: 1.7 mIU/ml (1.5-12 normal)
LH: 1.6 (2-8.6 normal)

Day 8 PCT
Test: 439 ng/dl (300-1000 normal)
Estradiol: 29 pg/ml (14-55 normal)
FSH: 3.1 mIU/ml (1.5-12 normal)
LH: 4.2 (2-8.6 normal)

Day 15 PCT
Test: 601 ng/dl (300-1000 normal)
Estradiol: 37.1 pg/ml (14-55 normal)
FSH: 5.1 mIU/ml (1.5-12 normal)
LH: 8.1 (2-8.6 normal)

Day 22 PCT
Test: 769 ng/dl (300-1000 normal)
Estradiol: 32.6 pg/ml (14-55 normal)
FSH: 6.3 mIU/ml (1.5-12 normal)
LH: 8.7 (2-8.6 normal)
Free Testosterone: 20.4 (9-30 ng/dL normal)


Day 29 PCT FINAL BLOOD
Test: 879 ng/dl (300-1000 normal)
Estradiol: 26.9 pg/ml (14-55 normal)
FSH: 6.8 mIU/ml (1.5-12 normal)
LH: 6.2 (2-8.6 normal)
Free Testosterone: 22.7 (9-30 ng/dL normal)

Testosterone increase in 29 days: 315%
FSH increase in 29 days: 400%
LH increase in 29 days: 387.5%

Who the hell gets bloods done 5x during pct?

 

[VaughnTrue]

Who the hell gets bloods done 5x during pct?

pretty crazy right?

From what I remember, they were totally covered by insurance for some reason so they didn't cost him more than a copay

 

[tryn2bebig]

Have you thought about trying P mag or Halo to get your feet wet?

 

[dredmentia]

pretty crazy right?

From what I remember, they were totally covered by insurance for some reason so they didn't cost him more than a copay

I'm pretty sure my doctor would send me for a psych evaluation if I was requesting blood that often she already thinks it's ridiculous I'm getting it every 3 months

 

[Smont]

Definitely crazy lol. If i had unlimited funds and doing it for research purposes maybe. I only get bloodwork 1x a year unless im worried bout something

 

[cyrix]

M1T, phera, and superdrol are all great for size and strength but are also heavy on the sides. Why not just use a test cycle?

 

[VAGeo15]

Another vote for M-Sten here. I also happen to love Trest.

 

[VaughnTrue]

M1T, phera, and superdrol are all great for size and strength but are also heavy on the sides. Why not just use a test cycle?

I always advocate using a Test base for any cycle. That's one of the huge advantages of have 4-ANDRO available to us now, as it wasn't available when I was into prohormones(no test conversion compounds were at the time).

When looking at the conversion rate to androstenediol + androstenedione, and then the conversion to Testosterone, it's pretty clear to see you can get a VERY appreciable amount of testosterone in your body via this compound orally, removing any need to actually pin it if its a concern for you(like it is for many)

 

[criticalbench]

Thank you everyone for your input, but only a few have actually answered my question... what pH gives the most strength and dry gains? Please put what your cycle would look like and the brand of the pH so I can decide?

You are not listening bro.. Your diet and training will ultimately determine how your gains progress. Taking hormones is not about taking the Max dose, or the strongest hormone available. It is about being mature and responsible, understanding what the hormone does and why taking a weaker hormone may be better in your situation than a stronger one.

At your height and weight, in addition to you saying you train for 3 hours a day, I do not feel comfortable suggesting a hormone to you; I would be negligent in doing so. I think you have a lot of room for improvement naturally and should shy away from looking for a quick fix.

Also, minimal results from 1 & 4 andro? Something is not right and it lies in your training, diet, or sleeping patterns, not the hormones. You were a hormone virgin when running those, you should have exploded..

 

[Austinstarkey]

I ended up deciding to go with epistane. After my cycle(on last few day of pct) I'm weighing about 180-185 my bench max went up to 275, squat 455, deadlift 475, and power clean 265. I can definitely say that my body reacted very well. The only problem I had was bad shin splints, but mainly because of playing basketball for 3 hours a day and lifting twice a day. On pct I have not lost any gains or weight, but I eat like a cow usually 1.5 grams of protein and 2 grams of carbs per pound of body weight. I've stayed away from all soda just water. I usually drink at least 8 bottles a day with an occasional Gatorade. So I can say I had a great cycle I did 30/30/30/30-40 and loved every bit epistane (RPN Havoc) is amazing! Thank you for everyones help.

 

[warlordwrug]

Stats
5'10 170
255 bench, 405 squat, 425 deadlift, 235 power clean.

I'm looking to start my first pH.I've taken 1 and 4 andro and got minimal results so looking for something a little stronger. I have a weight meet coming up soon and want to increase strength and get mostly dry gains. What would you suggest for a cycle. I've looked at rpn havoc, fusion extreme mass, delta force mega mass, or tr3n. Which out of these would be the best? Or would you suggest something else? Thanks for your time.

If you're not worried about customs go with delta force mega mass. That will blow your ass up since its superdrol and trenavar