HCG dosing schedule? Has everyone seen this?
04-24-2005 07:15 AM
HCG dosing schedule? Has everyone seen this?
I Cut this from Anabolex.. wanted to get some feedback if I could.
JC: Dr. John has updated the original paper you published. Here it is:
My New HCG Protocol Paper
This paper is about to be published in The American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine 2004 Clinical Updates:
AN UPDATE TO THE CRISLER HCG PROTOCOL
By John Crisler, DO
In my paper â€śMy Current Best Thoughts on How to Administer TRT for Menâ€?, published in A4Mâ€™s 2004/5 Anti-Aging Clinical Protocols, I introduced a new protocol where small doses of Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin (HCG) are regularly added to traditional TRT (either weekly IM testosterone cypionate or daily cream/gel). The reasons and benefits of this protocol are as follows, along with a new improvement I wish to share:
Any physician who administers TRT will, within the first few months of doing so, field complaints from their patients because they are now experiencing troubling testicular atrophy. Irrespective of the numerous and abundant benefits of TRT, men never enjoy seeing their genitals shrinking! Testicular atrophy occurs because the depressed LH level, secondary to the HPTA suppression TRT induces, no longer supports them. It is well known that HCGâ€”a Luteinizing Hormone (LH) analogâ€”will effectively, and dramatically, restore the testicles to previous form and function. It accomplishes this due to shared moiety between the alpha subunits of both hormones.
So, that satisfies an aesthetic consideration which should not be ignored. Now letâ€™s delve into the pharmacodynamics of the TRT medications. For those employing injectable
testosterone cypionate, the cypionate ester provides a 5-8 day half-life, depending upon the specific metabolism, activity level, and overall health of the patient. It is now well-established that appropriate TRT using IM injections must be dosed at weekly intervals, in order to avoid seating the patient on a hormonal, and emotional, roller coaster. Adding in some HCG toward the end of the weekly â€ścycleâ€? compensates for the drop in serum androgen levels by the half-life of the cypionate ester. Certainly the body thrives on regularity, and supplementing the TRT with endogenous testosterone production at just the right timeâ€”without inappropriately raising androgen OR estrogen (more on that later)â€”approximates the excellent performance stability of transdermal testosterone delivery systems for those who, for whatever reason or reasons, prefer test cyp.
But thereâ€™s another metabolic reason to employ this protocol. The P450 Side Chain Cleavage enzyme, which converts CHOL into pregnenolone at the initiation of all three metabolic pathways CHOL serves as precursor (the sex hormones, glucocorticoids and mineralcorticoids), is actively stimulated, or depressed, by LH concentrations. It is intuitively consistent that during conditions of lowered testosterone levels, commensurate increases in LH production would serve to stimulate this conversion from CHOL into these pathways, thereby feeding more raw material for increased hormone production. And vice versa. Thus the addition of HCG (which also stimulates the P450scc enzyme) helps restore a more natural balance of the hormones within this pathway in patients who are entirely, or even partially, HPTA-suppressed.
It is important that no more than 500IU of HCG be administered on any given day. There is only just so much stimulation possible, and exceeding that not only is wasteful, doing so has important negative consequences. Higher doses overly stimulate testicular aromatase, which inappropriately raises estrogen levels, and brings on the detrimental effects of same. It also causes Leydig cell desentization to LH, and we are therefore inducing primary hypogonadism while perhaps treating secondary hypogonadism. 250IU QD is an effective, and safe, dose. After all, we are merely replacing that which is lost to inhibition.
In my previous report I recommended 250IU of HCG twice per week for all TRT patients, taken the day of, along with the day before, the weekly test cyp injection. After looking at countless lab printouts, listening to subjective reports from patients, and learning more about HCG, I am now shifting that regimen forward one day. In other words, my test cyp TRT patients now take their HCG at 250IU two days before, as well as the day immediately previous to, their IM shot. All administer their HCG subcutaneously, and dosage may be adjusted as necessary (I have yet to see more than 350IU per dose required).
I made this change after realizing that the previous HCG protocol was boosting serum testosterone levels too much, as the test cyp serum concentrations rise, approaching its peak at roughly the 72 hour mark. The original goal of supporting serum androgen levels with HCG had overshot its mark.
Those TRT patients who prefer a transdermal testosterone, or even testosterone pellets (although I am not in favor of same), take their HCG every third day. They neednâ€™t concern themselves with diminishing serum androgen levels from their testosterone delivery system. These patients will, of course, notice an increase in serum androgen levels above baseline.
While HCG, as sole TRT, is still considered treatment of choice for hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism by many , my experience is that it just does not bring the same subjective benefits as pure testosterone delivery systems doâ€”even when similar serum androgen levels are produced from comparable baseline values. However, supplementing the more â€śtraditionalâ€? TRT of transdermal, or injected, testosterone with HCG stabilizes serum levels, prevents testicular atrophy, helps rebalance expression of other hormones, and brings reports of greatly increased sense of well-being and libido. My patients absolutely love it. As time goes on, we are coming to appreciate HCG as a much more powerful--and wonderful--hormone than previously given credit.
Copyright John Crisler, DO 2004. This article may, in its entirety or in part, be reprinted and republished without permission, provided that credit is given to its author, with copyright notice and 2. www.AllThingsMale.com clearly displayed as source. Written permission from Dr. Crisler is required for all other uses....
Day before and Day before that? I haven't read this before, (I usually see every 3,4, or 5 days) but it seems to make sense.
04-24-2005 12:11 PM
the triumph of the grill
It appears that the idea here is to stimulate enough endogenous test production to steady plasma test levels, thereby avoiding what most here have come to realize: the half-life of cyp is not ideal for once weekly injections.
If you're dosing cyp appropriately, i.e., 2x/week, shooting the hCG along with the testosterone will work just fine, since you will be providing additional exogenous testosterone by the time test levels begin to drop off.
Perhaps this is most interesting to those for whom twice weekly cyp or enan shots are impossible (likely on account of cognitive dissonance on the part of the user---with apologies for editorializing); in this case, the above protocol will help steady the user's testosterone levels. Note, however, that since most people here will be dosing substantially more test than the 200ish mg/week given to the typical HRT patient, hCG administration will have less impact on plasma test levels, since endogenous test production resulting from hCG will be a much smaller percentage of total testosterone. Increasing the dose of gonadotropin to compensate is inappropriate because returns diminish, aromatase activity increases, and Leydig toxicity can result.
The moral of the story: shoot cyp twice a week!
04-24-2005 12:16 PM
i think for a "typical" AAS cycle as opposed to HRT the standard HCG therapy that this board generally advocates (250iu dosed 2x a week with test administration) is just fine
but that is a very interesting read .. good post mmorpheus
04-24-2005 05:50 PM
I totally agree with shooting Cyp and Enanthate 2x/week, after doing the math I saw that the cumulative levels are steadier with 2 injects rather than one, regardless of whether the half life is 5 days or 10.
Originally Posted by kwantam
What interested me by this article was the specificity of timing involved in administration. I haven't seen much talk of specifically when HCG should be administered, whereas this article seems to point to day before test administration as being the optimal time. This makes sense to me, as even with 2X/weekly injections the day before your shot would naturally be when your bodys levels were at their lowest points.
I'm sure plenty of knowledgable cats already figured this out, but this is the first time I thought about it like that, figured I'd pass the info along.
04-24-2005 09:07 PM
How would this affect someone on an ED Test Prop/TNE schedule? How then should they administer HCG?
04-24-2005 09:09 PM
well one on an ED prop/susp schedule wouldn't have to worry about the factors mentioned in the article above so i would just run the HCG 2x a week(mon/thurs or sun/wed whatever) at 250ius a pop
04-24-2005 10:08 PM
Running with the Big Boys
Guys that is Swale's protocol that we have been talking about for a while now..
Swale is the doctor I think.. at least I know that allthingsmale is his website
04-24-2005 10:44 PM
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