21 day sust cycle...anyone tried it?
- 04-21-2005, 04:23 PM
21 day sust cycle...anyone tried it?
I was reading about this cycle at another board awhile back, and I was just curious if anyone has ever tried it, heard of it, or what you thought of it. The cycle is 250mg/day of sustanon for 21 days, thats 1750mg of test/week, you would be feeling pretty good by day 21 . I can see how it might be a decent short cycle because the longer acting esters in the sust would probably extend the cycle actually out to around 4 weeks. Then maybe run some transdermal boldenone or some winny along with it, phasing it out to an anabolic phase at the end like jminis's short cycle...just tossing around some ideas. What are your opinions on the 21 day sust cycle?
- 04-21-2005, 06:53 PM
think i would rather have a 21 day cycle of prop @ 200mg/QD. that would eliminate the roller coaster ride the sust esters would provide; and also be a much smoother PCT as it would be easy to gauge when to start PCT.
why bother on a 21 day cycle anyways? 4 weeks is the shortest i'd run with a test based injectable cycle. anything shorther than that and you wont have enough time to reap the benefits of that much test
04-21-2005, 09:12 PM
Ok, I used the half life calculator to figure the amounts of test that would be active in the body for a 21 day cycle of sust at 300mg/day that is mixed at: 50mg test propionate, 50mg test phenylpropionate, 150mg test isocaprinate, 50mg test decanoate.
The reason I did it with 300mg/ml sust is that this is what I have available to me. (BTW, this took a LONG f'ing time calculating the release of 4 different esters for a total of 40 days then adding them all together lol, I have writers cramp from hell from figuring all of this, I really need to create a program on e****)
The half lives I used for each are:
Test propionate: 4.5 days
Test phenylpropionate: 6.5 days (i couldnt find any info, so i just guesstimated)
Test Isocaprinate: 9 days
Test Decanoate: 15 days
Here is the amount of ACTIVE test in the body each day, injecting the 300mg blend each day:
Day 1- 25mg
Day 2- 49mg
Day 3- 70mg
Day 4- 89mg
Day 5- 106mg
Day 6- 121mg
Day 7- 136mg
Day 8- 148mg
Day 9- 161mg
Day 10- 172mg
Day 11- 181mg
Day 12- 190mg
Day 13- 199mg
Day 14- 206mg
Day 15- 212mg
Day 16- 219mg
Day 17- 225mg
Day 18- 230mg
Day 19- 236mg
Day 20- 241mg
Day 21- 244mg
Done injecting test
Day 22- 221mg
Day 23- 204mg
Day 24- 186mg
Day 25- 169mg
Day 26- 155mg
Day 27- 142mg
Day 28- 131mg
Day 29- 122mg
Day 30- 113mg
Day 31- 103mg
Day 32- 94mg
Day 33- 88mg
Day 34- 79mg
Day 35- 74mg (Quit figuring in amount of propionate active in body, amount neglible)
Day 36- 63mg
Day 37- 59mg
Day 38- 56mg
Day 39- 49mg
Day 40- 48mg (Quit figuring in amount of active phenylpropionate, amount neglible)
Day 41- 39mg
Day 42- 35mg
Day 43- 34mg
I quit there, got really tired of punching numbers in the calculator lol.
Weekly totals of active testosterone:
Week 1: 596mg
Week 2: 1257mg
Week 3: 1607mg
Week 4: 1208mg
Week 5: 673mg
Week 6: 349mg
Over 6 weeks, that averages out to 948mg/week of active testosterone in the body, i dont really know if that means anything though lol
So really it appears the cycle would be considered pretty much a 6 week cycle, even though the test is only being injected for the first 3 weeks. On week 6, 349mg of active test is still enough to make gains on, and definetly not low enough to start pct yet.
I agree Chasec, it would be very hard to figure when to start post cycle, due to such high amounts of test being built up in the system, I would need to extend the days that I calculated out to around 8 weeks to correctly assess when to start pct. I have heard it somewhere, but cant remember for sure, but I think it is time to start pct when the weekly total of test drops below ~150mg/week? By looking at the amount of test that drops each week and projecting that out, I would think it would be best to start post cycle around mid-end of week 7.
When looking at the daily/weekly dosage of active testosterone that is in the body, it definetly appears IMO that this would be a good short cycle. Going by ALR's theories about starting a cycle androgenic and phasing to anabolic at the end, I think this would work. Start some TD boldenone around day 18-21, it would be very similar to the protocol jminis used for his short cycles. Maybe add in some winny too when adding the TD boldenone or a few days later. Just tossing around some ideas here.
So after considering this data, what are your opinions on a cycle such as this?
04-22-2005, 11:25 PM
04-23-2005, 04:47 AM
Hey nate- since we've talked before I'll chime in cuz I have a little experience with something like this, however, its 3:45 n im waitin for my booty call to show up am n i'm too drunk to discuss it inteligently, I'll post tomm
04-23-2005, 05:15 AM
04-23-2005, 01:37 PM
Damn, Nate that took alot of patience and alot of caluculator work! Now that you put it like this, this sounds more interesting.
I remember a little over ten years ago when I started with Sust. I didn't even know what the hell I was doing! Let alone the 18gauge redi-jects were a mule kick in the glutes!
I remember seeing this formula on the other website, but from you putting the weekly numbers and how much per week the dosages come out to, I have a friend who will be interested in running this now.
04-23-2005, 03:14 PM
test PP has a half life of 4.5 days, same as prop.
I asume that by active test you are refering to the amount of test released on that day?
that would have been much easier on a spreadsheet
04-23-2005, 04:14 PM
Or Matlab!Originally Posted by Skye
Maybe I'll hack up a version of the half-life calculator that will let you do things like this more easily.
04-23-2005, 06:30 PM
Well I'm still not functioning at 100%, I love the weekends, but I'll give this a go. Several years ago I began a 10 week cyp cycle, that I ended up cutting short a month in due to a out of country vacation. A buddy of mine told me something about this sust cycle and since I had about 20 days till I left, I ran it knowing that i would be able to train while I was away. Now obviously my levels were different than on your spread due to the cyp at the front, but this was the only time sust ever really worked for me, nothing when pinning 2x/week. Since you seem to have unique/difficult responses to what many would consider normal protocol, as do I, I'd say run why not give it a try. In most cases I'd agree with what chasec said about just using prop to avoid fluctuations, but for some reason a number of people that I know respond surprisingly favorably to sust, and since you are very methodical in your approach you know about when to jump on PCT. You could use rebound at the very end if you arent exactly sure when to throw in your SERM, until that time comes. And either dermal bold or winny would be good, hell i'd love to use some tren ace but that might take you in another direction.
04-25-2005, 04:40 PM
Thanks for posting your experience homer. I think I may give this cycle a shot later on this summer, just kind of an experiment and see how it goes. I will try and keep a log here for everyone to keep track of how its going.
Anyone else have any other experiences/opinions on this?
04-25-2005, 07:34 PM
Nate if you decide to run this please do keep a log, as I am curious how it goes for ya, most people would agree, including you I'm sure that generally speaking, keeping things simple is best, but if I'm not mistakin, you just ran a common cycle and were less than thrilled with the results, and although this is a little out of the box, its certainly not non-sense, just a lot of test in your system.
04-25-2005, 07:42 PM
04-26-2005, 01:51 AM
04-26-2005, 02:05 AM
Well I have decided that I am going to run this cycle this summer, going to stack it with oral winstrol. Havent quite figured out when I am going to throw the winny in, probably the last 4 weeks.
BrianM, BossK, yes the experience of that much test should be quite pleasureable to say the least. I would imagine with test levels ramping up so fast that side effects could be a big concern, acne probably wont be too pretty, although the weird thing is when I am on cycle my acne is actually better than when I am off. Gyno is my main concern, probably going to run some arimidex with it. I have a few other ideas about the cycle, but I will elaborate later, time to eat!!
04-26-2005, 02:13 AM
Nate Dawg.........have you read Building the Perfect Beast? I believe there is a cycle in it similiar in construction to this.
04-26-2005, 02:23 AM
Nate, just make sure you have your ai's on hand. i took 2 nearly 1400 mg's of test e in 5 days to help frontload, but this was after i had been taking 250mg eod for 20 days with 100mg prop. The only side effect I'm feeling is high blood pressure and maybe some hair loss....took a lil bit too much femara today and ouch, my shoulders hurt. I cant wait till all that test kicks in...
04-26-2005, 10:39 AM
Size- No, I havent read Author's book BTPB, I want to buy it very soon though, I will probably buy it before I run this cycle, so if he has one very similar I may base it more towards his version, but the plan still stands with the 21 days of sust and winny in there.
BossK-I was planning on probably starting the first day with arimidex, I may start off running 0.25mg/day, and if that doesnt seem to control it as the dosages increase go up as high as needed to combat sides. I will only raise the dosage of the AI if I am bloating terribly bad, or if my nipples start acting up. Actually considering running Rebound XT as the AI, just kind of kicking that idea around for now, it seems to work so good and getting rid of gyno, I would think it should work good at preventing it. I was also wanting to experiment to see if taking ALRI's Ultra Hot during the cycle if it prevented testicular atrophy and helped prevent a heavy degree of shutdown as claimed. If the Ultra Hot seems to be a strong AI such as ReboundXT or Adex is, I will probably just go with the Ultra Hot, while having the adex on hand if it doesnt control it. With the ultra hot I want to mainly test the claim on how it helps keep shut down at bay. I have taken HCG with my past 2 cycles and that has made all the difference in the world for a smooth post cycle, so if Ultra Hot can do the same I want to find out. HCG is actually cheaper lol, I just realized that....probably going to wait and see what the feedback is like for the next several weeks.
04-26-2005, 07:45 PM
Although i've never tried it RXT may not be the best choice for when you've got over a gram and a half of test circulating. I use less than 1.25mg (.3-1.25mg) ed of letro and I'm staying pretty dry, my joints actually hurt a lil bit yesterday so i'm skipping out on the ai for yesterday and till later tonite. I wouldnt really think you need hcg on a 6 week cycle, but if it makes you happy, why not take a couple shots?
04-26-2005, 09:16 PM
I probably wont rely on the RXT to be the main AI, I have a little Arimidex left over from this cycle that I will most likely use for this. I am not real nuts on using letro, from the bloodwork I have seen it can really kill your estrogen levels, which I dont want to do, but I am sure a reasonable dose will keep estrogen levels in a reasonable range. Arimidex should be plenty strong for this cycle shouldnt it? I will probably start the first week at around .5mg/day, then bump it up to 1mg/day, then go from there I guess by how bad the bloat goes. I really wish CNW carried either letro or adex, but I guess I could probably get some adex from my source
04-26-2005, 09:19 PM
04-27-2005, 12:18 AM
04-27-2005, 01:14 AM
12-22-2005, 04:18 PM
Sorry if i missed it, but did you run this cycle? I recently started a sust 250 cycle doing eod shots and the pain is almost unbearable. The pain seems to peek at day 3 and by day 7 it seems to almost completely subside. Why does my sust hurt so bad anyone know?
12-22-2005, 08:47 PM
Sounds like you are one of the many bad responders to Prop and to a lesser extent, PhenylProp. Nothing big.. some get used to it, some don't.Originally Posted by Grifter
12-26-2005, 10:34 PM
Is there anyway I can make this stuff not hurt as bad? I am about to have to stop this cycle because its unbearable.Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
12-27-2005, 04:34 AM
I'd say stick with it, you somehow get used to it and it doesn't hurt that much after a while (the "peak" in the post-injection pain slowly degrades).Originally Posted by Grifter
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